Life After Death : What is the reality ?

[Wal Bada]

Hafisaad, I want proof from sources that is not Quran if you want to prove the existence of the God.

 

[hafizsaad]

Then what i want is physical evidence of presence of Allah. It should prove there is only one God. Don't talk of miracles, because I can use it to describe presence of more than one God.

your style is same like the person about i have mentioned in last reply...in first you have answer me for my question :will you accept the religion if we prove one same God...?
that
certainly, But according to our guide lines. And you have to show that Christian god is not the same as Islamic God.

Now you have used same style a lot of Question (About many of them we have discuss before) and then at the end same question like that person...
anyhow i answer you all your confusion and queries...

You believe in old testement ?

We beleive on Quran which is same as revealed to Prophet
Muhammad (PBUH)

1. Allah asks one of the prophets to kill his sons to show his gratitude towards Allah.

1. Allah did not create this prophet in a way that he always obeys him
2. Allah wanted him to kill his son to know whether he is failthful of Allah. So Allah did not knew beforehand he was faithful or not

This shows that Allah is not perfect him self.

Allah know all Good and bad and future and past and neither thing is far from his approanch..he is perfect in all qualities...
Allah has Open God matters and bad Matters infront of man and now the test is what path the man will select..
Allah says
(2:256) There is no compulsion and coercion in regard to religion. The right thing has been made distinct from the wrong thing: now whoever rejects false deities and believes in Allah has taken a firm support that never gives way.

the event of Ibrahim

Lets see the story start

(100) So We gave him the glad tidings of a forbearing boy.
(101) And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offer you in sacrifice to Allâh), so look what you think!" He said: "O my father! Do that which you are commanded, Inshâ' Allâh (if Allâh will), you shall find me of As-Sâbirun (the patient)."

what they have done

(102) Then, when they had both submitted themselves (to the Will of Allâh), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (or on the side of his forehead for slaughtering);

what Allah has Replied on and name this event

(103) And We called out to him: "O Abraham!
(104) You have fulfilled the dream!" Verily! thus do We reward the Muhsinûn (good-doers - see V.2:112).
(105) Verily, that indeed was a manifest trial.

what reward for fullfiling this test/trial

(106) And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice (i.e. کبش - a ram);
(107) And We left for him (a goodly remembrance) among the later generations.
(108) Salâmun (peace) be upon Ibrâhim (Abraham)!"
(109) Thus indeed do We reward the Muhsinûn (good-doers - see V.2:112). (110) Verily, he was one of Our believing slaves. (37,100 - 110)

i hope after reading the clear verse meaning you will realize the whole situation and it can answer you all above queries

2. Allah created set of non-believers. Is this a mistake?
3. Even if he created them he cannot change them in to believers (he is omnipotenet so could do it)

same answer as above that is "to test" who follow good path

4. Allah's creation, man is a imperfect creation. Old age, diseases, genetic disorders and wars. Imperfect creation = imperfect creator

i have answer this question before see the link below.

If there's a "God" Why doesn't He stop the evil ?

Now the argument you brings out to defend these, I can hit back with to prove that there can be many Gods. So think and post them.

why One True God ?
Unity of God:

Some polytheists argue by saying that the existence of more than one God is not illogical. Let us point out to them that if there were more than one God, they would dispute with one another, each god trying to fulfill his will against the will of the other gods. This can be seen in the mythology of the polytheistic and pantheistic religions. If a ‘God’ is defeated or unable to defeat the others, he is surely not the one true God. Also popular among polytheistic religions is the idea of many Gods, each having different responsibilities. Each one would be responsible for a part of man’s existence e.g. a Sun-God, a Rain-God, etc. This indicates that one ‘God’ is incompetent of certain acts and moreover he is also ignorant of the other Gods’ powers, duties, functions and responsibilities. There cannot be an ignorant and incapable God. If there were more than one God it would surely lead to confusion, disorder, chaos and destruction in the universe. But the universe is in complete harmony. The Glorious Qur’an says:

"If there were, in the heavens And the earth, other gods Besides Allah, there would Have been confusion in both! But glory to Allah, The Lord of the hrone:
(High is He) above What they attribute to Him!"
[Al-Qur’an 21:22]

If there were more than one God, they would have taken away what they created. The Qur’an says:

"No son did Allah beget, Nor is there any god Along with Him: (if there were
Many gods), behold, each god Would have taken away What he had created,
And some would have Lorded it over others! Glory to Allah! (He is free)
From the (sort of) things They attribute to Him!"
[Al-Qur’an 23:91]

Thus the existence of one True, Unique, Supreme, Almighty God, is the only logical concept of God.

 

[Wal Bada]

your style is same like the person about i have mentioned in last reply...in first you have answer me for my question :will you accept the religion if we prove one same God...?

I've given the answer. But you have to prove according to my way (scientific way) for me to believe it.

that certainly, But according to our guide lines. And you have to show that Christian god is not the same as Islamic God.

I don't believe in God. So I don't have to prove it. It's you that have to prove

1. Allah is the only God
2. There is no other God than Allah

without using the Quran.

Allah has Open God matters and bad Matters infront of man and now the test is what path the man will select..

Why do he/she has to test? He should already know that. This means Allah don't know before hand that whether a particular person is a follower or not.

(102) Then, when they had both submitted themselves (to the Will of Allâh), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (or on the side of his forehead for slaughtering);

what Allah has Replied on and name this event

(103) And We called out to him: "O Abraham!
(104) You have fulfilled the dream!" Verily! thus do We reward the Muhsinûn (good-doers - see V.2:112).
(105) Verily, that indeed was a manifest trial.

You don't get the point. If a teacher knows the student is good enough there is no need of exams. Exams are needed for teacher to see how good is student. If teacher is omnipotent then he needs no examination. Get the point?

same answer as above that is "to test" who follow good path

Test is needed ecaue Allah does not know. Simple.




why One True God ?
Unity of God:

Some polytheists argue by saying that the existence of more than one God is not illogical. Let us point out to them that if there were more than one God, they would dispute with one another, each god trying to fulfill his will against the will of the other gods.

Now this proves that even one mighty god can have bad qualities. If they are all loving and merciful, there won't be a problem. How do you prove that many gods will have that bad qualities, but one god does not have even part of that bad qualities?

This can be seen in the mythology of the polytheistic and pantheistic religions. If a ‘God’ is defeated or unable to defeat the others, he is surely not the one true God. Also popular among polytheistic religions is the idea of many Gods, each having different responsibilities. Each one would be responsible for a part of man’s existence e.g. a Sun-God, a Rain-God, etc. This indicates that one ‘God’ is incompetent of certain acts and moreover he is also ignorant of the other Gods’ powers, duties, functions and responsibilities. There cannot be an ignorant and incapable God. If there were more than one God it would surely lead to confusion, disorder, chaos and destruction in the universe. But the universe is in complete harmony. The Glorious Qur’an says:

And one stupid god can do more harm than a group, because thers's no one to reverse his deeds. Don't run back to polytheism. Talk abstractly.

"If there were, in the heavens And the earth, other gods Besides Allah, there would Have been confusion in both! But glory to Allah, The Lord of the hrone:
(High is He) above What they attribute to Him!"

Sorry I don't beleive Quran. Bring in other sources.

If there were more than one God, they would have taken away what they created.

Would have taken away the diseases, natural disasters etc. How nice!

Thus the existence of one True, Unique, Supreme, Almighty God, is the only logical concept of God.

Thus the existence of many True, different, understanding, Almighty Gods, is the only logical concept of God.

How does that sound?

 

[hafizsaad]

Why do he/she has to test? He should already know that. This means Allah don't know before hand that whether a particular person is a follower or not.

Allah know this but that need is show and benefit of others like us that we should prepare us for test like this...
Allah knowledge is perfect and for him

You don't get the point. If a teacher knows the student is good enough there is no need of exams. Exams are needed for teacher to see how good is student. If teacher is omnipotent then he needs no examination. Get the point?

what a logic...you have answered the question yourself...
then from your point why a school take exams of the student who are clear for the teachers that they will pass the exams...
brother test is for giving reward and making ideal who scored high....

why One True God ?
Unity of God:

Now this proves that even one mighty god can have bad qualities. If they are all loving and merciful, there won't be a problem. How do you prove that many gods will have that bad qualities, but one god does not have even part of that bad qualities?

And one stupid god can do more harm than a group, because thers's no one to reverse his deeds. Don't run back to polytheism. Talk abstractly.

access what the matter is telling about...
you always take the matter in negative sense....
it is mentioning more God can creat confusion and destruction and fight...one God ,...Peace everwhere in Universe///

Sorry I don't beleive Quran. Bring in other sources.

How does that sound?

we not expect and ask you but if it present good logic and proof accept it
it says

"If there were, in the heavens And the earth, other gods Besides Allah, there would Have been confusion in both! But glory to Allah, The Lord of the hrone:
(High is He) above What they attribute to Him!"
[Al-Qur’an 21:22]

 

[Mononoke]

Test is needed ecaue Allah does not know. Simple.

Or if he is a sadist.

 

[Wal Bada]

Allah know this but that need is show and benefit of others like us that we should prepare us for test like this...Allah knowledge is perfect and for him

Why other need the test? Allah should know about them as well. If that is true, no tests are needed.

what a logic...you have answered the question yourself...
then from your point why a school take exams of the student who are clear for the teachers that they will pass the exams...

Now the point you missed is if teacher knows everything, he should know how much student knows. Otherwise the teacher does not know something. Exam is to find out about that unknown. Sorry, you are miles off the argument.

brother test is for giving reward and making ideal who scored high....

So why need a test? Allah knows it. He/She can very well make him/her an ideal without the test. After all he's almighty! Or he's unable to to it without the test?

access what the matter is telling about...

The matter is you have given no sound evidence to say there is only one God.

you always take the matter in negative sense....

Negative for you is positive to me.

it is mentioning more God can creat confusion and destruction and fight...one God ,...Peace everwhere in Universe

One bad God can make things much worser than a bunch of bad ones. Because his actions are not moderated.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Dear walbada,
As i understand you are rejecting the concept of God..I would like to make some points..as to how to proving god to athiest.
Logical Concept of God

My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.

If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.

Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.

Qur'an and Modern Science

The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.

Many atheists(hope it will be applicable for u) demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.

If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.

Scientific Facts Mentioned in the Qur'an

Theory of Probability

In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.

A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.

Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.

At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.

The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.

Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.

The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.
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Creator is the Author of the Qur'an

The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.


Qur'an is a Book of Signs and not Science

Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.

But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.
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Science is Eliminating Models of God but not God

Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).

Surah Fussilat:

"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"

[Al-Quran 41:53]

 

[hafizsaad]

Why other need the test? Allah should know about them as well. If that is true, no tests are needed.

Now the point you missed is if teacher knows everything, he should know how much student knows. Otherwise the teacher does not know something. Exam is to find out about that unknown. Sorry, you are miles off the argument.

So why need a test? Allah knows it. He/She can very well make him/her an ideal without the test. After all he's almighty! Or he's unable to to it without the test?
.

Nothing on earth is created in vain, but rather with wisdom. Understanding this fact depends on the wisdom of people themselves.

Allah is mighty enough to do what He wishes at the moment. His wishes are greater and mightier than human beings can even imagine.

Allah Know all thing before.but he has make a system and decipline that will happen...
imagine if there were no test and Allah on the judgement day put all for whose his know will fail the test to hell and for whose his knowledge tell will pass the test to paradise we can ask :
why we're going to hell even though we weren't put on this Earth as a test and we'd be like "WHAT ? I didn't do any of THOSE things.
GIVE ME A CHANCE! How can you send me to hell when I can't answer to anything?"

so on the day of judgement we can't deny what we've actually lived through.
To be witnesses on our own actions........

Do you get what I mean? Like, at least if we experience it, and do wrong, or right, then when the day of judgement comes, there's nothing we can say, coz what we've done we've done and we know it.

So that on Judgement Day, we will have no excuse to tell him: "No this is not true, I wouldnt' have done it, etc.." Like this He gave us free will, and we did what we did.

Also, God didnt' tell us what we will do in life but ,but just he gave us free will, and he just knows what we are going to do.and inform before that:

“We will test you with a certain amount of fear and hunger and loss of wealth and life and fruits. But give good news to the steadfast: Those who, when disaster strikes them, say, ‘We belong to Allah and to Him we will return’.” (Surat al-Baqara, 155-156)

The matter is you have given no sound evidence to say there is only one God.
Negative for you is positive to me.
One bad God can make things much worser than a bunch of bad ones. Because his actions are not moderated

You are discussing about God of islam you should keep in mind what islam has tells about his significance and qualities and perfection in his qualities.

i again post verse, Read carefully

Had there been any gods in the heavens and the earth beside Allah, the order of both the heavens and the earth would have gone to ruin. Glory be to Allah, the Lord of the Throne, Who is far above their false descriptions of Him.

[Al-Qur’an 21:22]


there been fight between that God, every one want to rule the whole and the destruction in the universe we see but we see decipline, accuracy in the universe .
What is the need for more than one God? What makes God holy and a god is the fact that He is all powerful.
If on the other hand for more than one God we may thought that they were created by a prior existing god... then you can trace their lineage back to one original creator god... in which case you still have a single creator god to worship and all the other gods are only demi gods .

i Hope you will reeach the point..its not become so simple to understand.

 

[Mononoke]

At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.

I think I've told you that this was a greek idea, they knew very well the earth was a sphere. They even estimates the circumference of the earth buy applying trigonometry to solar shadows. These techniques are even taught today at schools. Here is a website that show how they did their calculations, they are simple and elegant.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html

Why are you repeating the same nonsense.

The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.

The Greeks knew this as well. They knew it through the study of eclipses, and not through some magical insight. The Greeks also proposes the concept of the atom. This must clearly make them uber gods.

Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.

Well living things are not made sole of water, that is a statement. Besides when you cut a human being cooper and wood doesn't spill out. It shouldn't take Einstein to figure out we are made up of an aqueous substance

You still haven't responded to post about the absurdity of the Quranic water cycle. I'll re post it here for your convenience:

I did some reading about the Qur'anic water cycle. unsurprisingly it is inaccurate and rather unimpressive in its description.

Quote:[Shakir 24:43] Do you not see that Allah drives along the clouds, then gathers them together, then piles them up, so that you see the rain coming forth from their midst?

This is a completely wrong description of rain cloud formation. Rain clouds form singly, not by other cloud joining together or stacking together. Hot water vapor rises up until it hit an inversion layer where the water condenses to form a singular rain cloud.

Quote:And He sends down of the clouds that are (like) mountains wherein is hail, afflicting therewith whom He pleases and turning it away from whom He pleases; the flash of His lightning almost takes away the sight.

Ha this is an old wives tale. Clouds that are like mountains, WTF.

Quote: God describes the rain as pure and recent science proved the rain to be pure distilled water.
[Shakir 25:48] And He it is Who sends the winds as good news before His mercy; and We send down pure water from the cloud,

Ever heard of acid rain, it seems your god hasn't.

Quote:[Shakir 56:70] If We pleased, We would have made it salty; why do you not then give thanks?

This is impossible, vaporization of water molecules leaves salt behind.

The rest of that article tells us nothing more than what a 10 year old boy could deduce through observations, way to go Einstein. There is not even a simple description of precipitation in here. Who are you trying to fool?

 

[Wal Bada]

Allah is mighty enough to do what He wishes at the moment. His wishes are greater and mightier than human beings can even imagine

Very good way to escape when the common sense of the actions of Allah is questioned. Congrads! You are going in the same path that many has gone.

Allah Know all thing before.but he has make a system and decipline that will happen...

Allah should have created them with the necessary discipline in first-hand. So it shows his creation is imperfect. Imperfect creation means imperfect creator.

imagine if there were no test and Allah on the judgement day put all for whose his know will fail the test to hell and for whose his knowledge tell will pass the test to paradise

Why did Allah created people who are not going to obey him / her first hand? Once again Imperfect creation means imperfect creator.

why we're going to hell even though we weren't put on this Earth as a test and we'd be like "WHAT ? I didn't do any of THOSE things.
GIVE ME A CHANCE! How can you send me to hell when I can't answer to anything?"

The first question would be "Although you are almighty why did you create me as a non-believer?" Then other questions can follow.

so on the day of judgement we can't deny what we've actually lived through. To be witnesses on our own actions........

Sounds like a fairly tale to me

Do you get what I mean? Like, at least if we experience it, and do wrong, or right, then when the day of judgement comes, there's nothing we can say, coz what we've done we've done and we know it.

So why did Allah created us to do the "wrong"?

So that on Judgement Day, we will have no excuse to tell him: "No this is not true, I wouldnt' have done it, etc.." Like this He gave us free will, and we did what we did.

Free will except to question his existence? Great! It's like talking about rape without mentioning man

Also, God didnt' tell us what we will do in life but ,but just he gave us free will, and he just knows what we are going to do.and inform before that:

Giving the free will is wrong if Allah is going to punish the action of it. he should not have given it in the first place being able to foresee the consequences.

Had there been any gods in the heavens and the earth beside Allah, the order of both the heavens and the earth would have gone to ruin.

How exactly?

there been fight between that God, every one want to rule the whole and the destruction in the universe we see but we see decipline, accuracy in the universe .

That is your thinking. According to you God(s) are much above in their actions and how they think. So who are you to predict the behavior of Gods? If you say that I cannot predict Allah's behavior, you could not predict that of multiple Gods.

What is the need for more than one God?

What is the need for even a single God for that matter?

What makes God holy and a god is the fact that He is all powerful.

I have clearly shown that he/she is not omnipotent.

If on the other hand for more than one God we may thought that they were created by a prior existing god... then you can trace their lineage back to one original creator god...

Once again, it's your theory isn't it? How about creating the world as a joint effort? One created stars, one created earth, one created life etc? If I cannot describe Allah by my theories, neither you can of multiple Gods. I warned you earlier, every single argument you are going to use for the existence of one God I am going to use to prove there are multiple gods.

 

[njsa]

Ilovesrilanka, they will not understand any,even if u give valid reasons.they just want to put down the islam thats it.which is their main aim.

 

[I love Srilanka]

I think I've told you that this was a greek idea, they knew very well the earth was a sphere. They even estimates the circumference of the earth buy applying trigonometry to solar shadows. These techniques are even taught today at schools. Here is a website that show how they did their calculations, they are simple and elegant.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html

Why are you repeating the same nonsense.

Hello,i think u are not reading whatever i write,perhaps that may be true that the Indian and Greek Mathematicians including Eratosthenes may have been amongst the first people to postulate that the Earth was Spherical but that doesn't in any way diminish the fact that the Quran presented to us the Correct option on this matter as at the time there were numerous views on what Shape exactly the Earth was and the Quran Still chose the correct view that the Earth was Spherical.
It's like having 3 or 4 options and still choosing the Correct one and we all know that ain't easy and very risky especially if you trying to pass a Book off as the Word of God, so the Quran gave us the Correct Option here in revealing to us that the Earth was Spherical rather than going with the other prevalent views at the time that the Earth was Flat, or the Earth was Circular but flat etc, the Quran chose the Correct Option amongst a Myriad of other views and in all matters the Glorious Quran always has the Correct statement amongst the many other prevalent ones at the time proving once more that it's a Miracle from God.
Besides even if the Greeks and Indians were amongst the first to postulate a Spherical Earth, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had no contact with Greeks or Indians for him to have had access to their knowledge of a Spherical Earth. in summary Greeks told many thing which was not proved that time only recently it is proved.if now sceince said world is flat im sure you would have told about christpoher columbus,coz even he argued in favour of world flat even after Eratithenes.

The Greeks knew this as well. They knew it through the study of eclipses, and not through some magical insight. The Greeks also proposes the concept of the atom. This must clearly make them uber gods.

nonsense, as per you Greeks know all bullshit, now science is not needed..My dear all of them were theories.only estabilished as fact later.i wonder why Quran picked up only correct theories among lot.

Well living things are not made sole of water, that is a statement. Besides when you cut a human being cooper and wood doesn't spill out. It shouldn't take Einstein to figure out we are made up of an aqueous substance

again as i told you earlier eintein or anyone have just proposed their theory, even mohammed would have any contact with them, even if he contact with them i dont feel he never copied einsten theory as muhammed Saw was a illiterate person,who cant read, write.

You still haven't responded to post about the absurdity of the Quranic water cycle. I'll re post it here for your convenience:

In 1580, Bernard Palissy was the first man to describe the present day concept
of ‘water cycle’. He described how water evaporates from the oceans and
cools to form clouds. The clouds move inland where they rise, condense and
fall as rain. This water gathers as lakes and streams and flows back to the
ocean in a continuous cycle. In the 7th century B.C., Thales of Miletus
believed that surface spray of the oceans was picked up by the wind and
carried inland to fall as rain. In earlier times people did not know the source
of underground water. They thought the water of the oceans, under the effect
of winds, was thrust towards the interior of the continents. They also believed
that the water returned by a secret passage, or the Great Abyss. This passage is connected to the oceans and has been called the ‘Tartarus’, since Plato’s time. Even Descartes, a great thinker of the eighteenth century, subscribed to this view. Till the nineteenth century, Aristotle’s theory was prevalent.
According to this theory, water was condensed in cool mountain caverns and
formed underground lakes that fed springs. Today, we know that the
rainwater that seeps into the cracks of the ground is responsible for this.

again

“And We send down water From the sky according to (Due) measure,
and We cause it To soak in the soil; And We certainly are able To drain it off (with ease).” [Al-Qur’aan 23:18]


The Quran correctly describes the water cycle, and the origin of underground springs as being from rainwater. Obvious you may think, but the Greek philosophers did not get it right, suggesting that underground springs were produced by sea spray collecting in caves, which fed a great underground sea through the 'abyss'! In fact, the water cycle was not accurately propounded until the 18th century CE. The Quran, however, states (what means): "Do you not see that Allaah sends down rain from the sky and makes it flow as springs (and rivers) in the earth?” [Quran 39:21]

as per u what is absurdity exactly..i dont feel anything , it is exactly matching with established science.

 

[I love Srilanka]

See the list of some Scientist who accept with Quran...Only Mononnoke and Walabada has absurdity with Quran,,as per them they are greater than below mentioned scientists.importantly they are non muslim scientists.

SOME SCIENTISTS' COMMENTS REGARDING THE QUR'AN

… There are too many accuracies [in the Qur'an] and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements.270 (Dr. T. V. N. Persaud, Professor of Anatomy, Pediatrics and Child Health, Obstetrics, Gynecology, Reproductive Sciences at the University of Manitoba)

… It follows, I think, that not only there is no conflict between genetics and religion but, in fact, religion can guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches, that there exist statements in the Quran shown centuries later to be valid, which support knowledge in the Quran having been derived from God.271 (Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Molecular and Human Genetics)

As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Quran. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I knew today and describing things, I could not describe the things which were described… So I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he [Prophet Muhammad (saas)] was able to write.272 (Dr. E. Marshall Johnson, Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Developmental Biology at Thomas Jefferson University)

In a relatively few aayahs [Quranic verses] is contained a rather comprehensive description of human development from the time of commingling of the gametes through organogenesis. No such distinct and complete record of human development, such as classification, terminology, and description, existed previously. In most, if not all, instances, this description antedates by many centuries the recording of the various stages of human embryonic and fetal development recorded in the traditional scientific literature.273 (Gerald C. Goeringer, Associate Professor of Medical Embryology at Georgetown University)

It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'an about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to [Prophet] Muhammad [saas] from God, or Allah, because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that [Prophet] Muhammad [saas] must have been a messenger of God, or Allah.274 (Dr. Keith L. Moore, Professor Emeritus, Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, University of Toronto. Distinguished embryologist and the author of several medical textbooks)

... Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah. The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge.275 (Dr. Keith L. Moore, Professor Emeritus, Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, University of Toronto)

The intensive studies of the Qur'an and Hadith in the last four years have revealed a system of classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the seventh century A.D... the descriptions in the Qur'an cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the seventh century... 276 (Dr. Keith L. Moore, Professor Emeritus, Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, University of Toronto)

I think it is almost impossible that he [Prophet Muhammad (saas)] could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case… Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics 1400 years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind for instance that the earth and the heavens had the same origin, or many others of the questions that we have discussed here.277 (Alfred Kroner, Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, Germany. One of the world's most famous geologists)

If you combine all these and you combine all these statements that are being made in the Qur'an in terms that relate to the earth and the formation of the earth and science in general, you can basically say that statements made there in many ways are true, they can now be confirmed by scientific methods... And that many of the statements made in there at that time could not be proven, but that modern scientific methods are now in a position to prove what [Prophet] Muhammad [saas] said 1400 years ago.278 (Alfred Kroner, Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, Germany)

I say, I am very much impressed by finding true astronomical facts in Qur'an, and for us modern astronomers have been studying very small piece of the universe. We have concentrated our efforts for understanding of very small part. Because by using telescopes, we can see only very few parts of the sky without thinking about the whole universe. So by reading Qur'an and by answering to the questions, I think I can find my future way for investigation of the universe.279 (Professor Yushidi Kusan, Director of the Tokyo Observatory, Tokyo, Japan)

Certainly, I would like to leave it at that, that what we have seen is remarkable, it may or may not admit of scientific explanation, there may well have to be something beyond what we understand as ordinary human experience to account for the writings that we have seen.280 (Professor Armstrong, Professor of Astronomy serving with NASA)

It is difficult to imagine that this type of knowledge was existing at that time, around 1400 years back. May be some of the things they have simple idea about, but to describe those things in great detail is very difficult. So this is definitely not simple human knowledge. A normal human being cannot explain this phenomenon in that much detail. So, I thought the information must have come from a supernatural source.281 (Prof. Dorja Rao, Professor of Marine Geology at King Abdulaziz University, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)

… I believe that everything mentioned in the Qur'an 1400 years ago is true and can be proven by scientific methods… This must be by inspiration from God, or Allah, Who knows all science. Thus, I believe that this is the time to say: "There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah."282 (Prof. Tejatat Tejasen, Head of the Department of Anatomy and Embryology, University of Chiang Mai, Chiang Mai, Thailand)

The Qur'an came several centuries ago, confirming what we discovered. This indicates that the Qur'an is the word of God.283 (Prof. Joly Sumson, Professor in Gynecology and Obstetrics)

It [the Qur'an] discusses the past, the recent period, and the future. I do not know the cultural level of the people in the period of [Prophet] Muhammad [saas] and I do not know their scientific level. If it is as we know about the low scientific level in this ancient period, and the absence of technology, then there is no doubt that what we are reading nowadays in the Qur'an is a light from God. He inspired it in [Prophet] Muhammad [saas]. I had made research into the early history of civilization in the Middle East in order to know if there was such perfect information as this. If there was no other information like the Qur'anic information in that ancient period, this strengthens the faith that God sent [Prophet] Muhammad [Prophet]; He sent to him a little amount from His large science, which we have discovered only in recent time. We are hoping for continuous dialogue in the subject of science with the Qur'an in the field of geology.284 (Prof. Palmar, one of the major scientists in geology in the USA)

After a discussion about the function of mountains for the fixing of the earth:

I believe that this [the Qur'an's information] is very very strange, it is nearly impossible, I believe truly that if what you are saying is right, thus, this book [the Qur'an] is very valuable to be noticed, I agree with you.285 (Professor Syawda, a Japanese scientist famous in Japan and internationally in the field of oceanic geology.)

 

[Mononoke]

@I love Sri Lanka:

1) Stop this nonsense, I have shown to clearly that these quranic miracle sciences are nothing more than reiterations of what Greek, Indian, Persian and roman scholars and scientists knew a thousand years before the Qur'an. All Mohammad did was plagiarize that knowledge and feed it to a bunch of ignorant illiterate people who don't know any better. The only argument to your defence is that Mohammed never had contact with these cultures. That is a blatant lie:

It is known that he became a merchant and "was involved in trade between the Indian ocean and the Mediterranean Sea."[47]

2)I have destroyed your Quranic water cycle using nothing more than O/L chemistry. And your silly gaseous creation story doesn't stand up to scrutiny as well. This shows that the Qur'an is clearly in conflict with modern scientific thesis. There is no science or signs or anything like that in that book.

3) Here are some early descriptions of the water cycle, as well as underwater streams:

Marcus Vitruvius, in the first century B.C., described a philosophical theory of the hydrologic cycle, in which precipitation falling in the mountains infiltrated the Earth's surface and led to streams and springs in the lowlands.

Read from page 557-570 it gives you an account of the water cycle as described in antiquity: http://books.google.lk/books?id=3PMWGrsaXqwC&pg=PA557&lpg=PA557&dq=early+description+of+the+water+cycle&source=bl&ots=ARAlakYRTR&sig=2R2FFjzRkf1GXk36wAd8GAZILMQ&hl=en&ei=j87hSrerCqaW6wOgno3mAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCAQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=early%20description%20of%20the%20water%20cycle&f=false

There is nothing novel in your book all cut and pastes.

 

[smallvilleclerk50]

happy copy pasting muslims

 

[I love Srilanka]

@I love Sri Lanka:

1) Stop this nonsense, I have shown to clearly that these quranic miracle sciences are nothing more than reiterations of what Greek, Indian, Persian and roman scholars and scientists knew a thousand years before the Qur'an. All Mohammad did was plagiarize that knowledge and feed it to a bunch of ignorant illiterate people who don't know any better. The only argument to your defence is that Mohammed never had contact with these cultures. That is a blatant lie:

MONONKE, GIVE ME PROOF FOR MUHAMMED HAD CONTACT WITH GREEKS AND INDIANS.

2)I have destroyed your Quranic water cycle using nothing more than O/L chemistry. And your silly gaseous creation story doesn't stand up to scrutiny as well. This shows that the Qur'an is clearly in conflict with modern scientific thesis. There is no science or signs or anything like that in that book.

CAN U PROVE WRONG WITH O/L SCIENCE BOOK?YOUR GREEK SCIENCE ARE BULLSHIT EVEN I STUDIED IN O/L(ONLY SOME YEARS BACK)..SUN NEVER ROTATE...NOW WE RECENTLY GET TO KNOW THAT EVEN SUN ROTATE, WHICH WAS ALREADY MENTIONED IN THE QURAN 1400 YEARS BACK..YESTERDAY SCIENCE FOUND..

3) Here are some early descriptions of the water cycle, as well as underwater streams:

Read from page 557-570 it gives you an account of the water cycle as described in antiquity: http://books.google.lk/books?id=3PMWGrsaXqwC&pg=PA557&lpg=PA557&dq=early+description+of+the+water+cycle&source=bl&ots=ARAlakYRTR&sig=2R2FFjzRkf1GXk36wAd8GAZILMQ&hl=en&ei=j87hSrerCqaW6wOgno3mAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCAQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=early%20description%20of%20the%20water%20cycle&f=false

There is nothing novel in your book all cut and pastes.

I KNOW YOU JUST WANT TO REJECT QURAN THTS IT, WITH SOME SOURCE OF CRITICS OF ISLAM.COPY AND PASTE IS RELEVANT TO U AS WELL.

 

[Mononoke]

CAN U PROVE WRONG WITH O/L SCIENCE BOOK?YOUR GREEK SCIENCE ARE BULLSHIT EVEN I STUDIED IN O/L(ONLY SOME YEARS BACK)

Ok then prove me wrong. I have made a very straightforward argument, you should be able to disprove it. Lets start with the water cycle and move onto the dense smoke.
And what idiot thought that smoke can possibly be dense.

 

[hafizsaad]

Allah should have created them with the necessary discipline in first-hand. So it shows his creation is imperfect. Imperfect creation means imperfect creator.

Why did Allah created people who are not going to obey him / her first hand? Once again Imperfect creation means imperfect creator.

The first question would be "Although you are almighty why did you create me as a non-believer?" Then other questions can follow.

Sounds like a fairly tale to me

So why did Allah created us to do the "wrong"?

Free will except to question his existence? Great! It's like talking about rape without mentioning man

Giving the free will is wrong if Allah is going to punish the action of it. he should not have given it in the first place being able to foresee the consequences.

How exactly?

That is your thinking. According to you God(s) are much above in their actions and how they think. So who are you to predict the behavior of Gods? If you say that I cannot predict Allah's behavior, you could not predict that of multiple Gods.

What is the need for even a single God for that matter?

i am sorry i have realized from you replying style that you are so non serious that discussion and answering you is the time wasting...when we give our Quran verse you people asked for logical proof when we give logical proof it also could not understoodable by your sticky mind...
when i answer or post on the forum a thread my aim is not only to give answer to you hard mind budhish and atheist but i think my be it become beneficial for other misleaded but rational searchers..
i will give no more answer to you. My answer on this topic "Existance of one God " is clear from every point of view and style...

 

[I love Srilanka]

Ok then prove me wrong. I have made a very straightforward argument, you should be able to disprove it. Lets start with the water cycle and move onto the dense smoke.
And what idiot thought that smoke can possibly be dense.

No,IM not ready to prove you now unless first u prove with O/L chemistry book as you said(1st of all no chemistry book in OL,only science book)...your purpose is coming out to the light now,you just keep on rejecting whatever we say based on O/L book..NOW prove with OL book..

and u said muhammed had contact with Greeks and indians.i am waiting for the proof for that as well.

 

[Wal Bada]

i am sorry i have realized from you replying style that you are so non serious that discussion and answering you is the time wasting...

Your logic has got stuck, Now that is the method another used by people like you. Running away from the discussion.

when we give our Quran verse you people asked for logical proof when we give logical proof it also could not understoodable by your sticky mind...

Soyy, you have given no proof at all.

when i answer or post on the forum a thread my aim is not only to give answer to you hard mind budhish and atheist but i think my be it become beneficial for other misleaded but rational searchers..

Hpoing that somebody will eat the bait. But I have ruined the plans. Isn't it?

i will give no more answer to you. My answer on this topic "Existance of one God " is clear from every point of view and style...

You failed miserably to give evideneced of existance of single most powerful god. So an epic fail.

Once more . . EPIC FAIL