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<blockquote data-quote="ibnanv" data-source="post: 17937378" data-attributes="member: 218596">[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]&nbsp; 2. The Sun[/FONT]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It is more difficult to conceive of the Sun's&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; orbit&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; because we are so used to seeing our solar system&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; organized around it. To understand the verse from the Quran, the&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; position of the Sun in our galaxy must be&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; considered, and we&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; must therefore call on modern&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; scientific ideas.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Our galaxy includes a very large number of&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; stars&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; spaced so as to form a disc that is denser at the centre&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; than at the rim. The Sun occupies a position in it which&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; is far removed from the centre of the disc. The galaxy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; revolves on its own axis which is its centre with the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; result&nbsp; &nbsp; that the Sun revolves around the same centre in a&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; circular&nbsp; &nbsp; orbit. Modern astronomy has worked out the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; details&nbsp; of this. In&nbsp; &nbsp; 1917, Shapley estimated the distance&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; between the&nbsp; Sun and the&nbsp; &nbsp; centre of our galaxy at 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; kiloparsecs i.e., in&nbsp; miles, circa&nbsp; &nbsp; the figure 2 followed&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; by 17 zeros. To complete&nbsp; one revolution&nbsp; &nbsp; on its own axis,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the galaxy and Sun take&nbsp; roughly 250 million&nbsp; &nbsp; years. The&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sun travels at roughly 150&nbsp; miles per second in&nbsp; the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; completion of this.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The above is the orbital movement of the Sun&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; that was&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; already referred to by the Quran fourteen centuries&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ago.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The demonstration of the existence and details of this&nbsp; is&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; one of the achievements of modern astronomy.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]&nbsp; Reference to the Movement of the Moon and the Sun&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in Space With Their Own Motion[/FONT]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This concept does not appear in those&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; translations of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the Quran that have been made by men of&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; letters. Since&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the latter know nothing about astronomy, they&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; have&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; translated the Arabic word that expresses this movement&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; by one of the meanings the word has: 'to swim'. They have&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; done this in both the French translations and the,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; otherwise&nbsp; remarkable, English translation by Yusuf Ali. [ Pub.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, Lahore (Pakistan)] &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The Arabic word referring to a movement with a&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; self-propelled motion is the verb sabaha (yasbahuna&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in the text of the two verses). All the senses of the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; verb imply a movement that is associated with a motion&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; that&nbsp;&nbsp; comes from the body in question. If the movement&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; takes&nbsp;&nbsp; place&nbsp; in&nbsp; water, it is 'to swim'; it is 'to move by&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the action&nbsp;&nbsp; of&nbsp; one's&nbsp; own legs' if it takes place on land.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; For a&nbsp; movement&nbsp; that&nbsp; occurs&nbsp; in space, it is difficult to&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; see how&nbsp; else this&nbsp; meaning&nbsp; implied&nbsp; in the word could be&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; rendered&nbsp; other than by&nbsp; employing&nbsp; its&nbsp; original sense. Thus&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; there seems&nbsp; to have been&nbsp; no&nbsp;&nbsp; mistranslation, for the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; following reasons.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -The Moon completes its rotating motion on its own axis&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; at the same time as it revolves around the Earth, i.e.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 291/2&nbsp;&nbsp; days (approx.), so that it always has the same side&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; facing&nbsp; us.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -The Sun takes roughly 25 days to revolve on its own&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; axis. There are certain differences in its rotation at&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; its&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; equator and poles, (we shall not go into them here)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; but as a&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; whole, the Sun is animated by a rotating motion.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It appears therefore that a verbal nuance in&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Quran refers to the Sun and Moon's own motion. These&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; motions of the two celestial bodies are confirmed by the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; data of modern science, and it is inconceivable that a&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; man&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; living in the Seventh century A.D.-however&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; knowledgeable he&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; might have been in his day (and this was&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; certainly not true&nbsp; in&nbsp; &nbsp; Muhammad's case) -could have&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; imagined them.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This view is sometimes contested by examples&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; from&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; great thinkers of antiquity who indisputably predicted&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; certain data that modern science has verified. They could&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; hardly have relied on scientific deduction however; their&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; method of procedure was more one of philosophical&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; reasoning.&nbsp; &nbsp; Thus the case of the pythagoreans is often&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; advanced. In the&nbsp; &nbsp; Sixth century B.C., they defended the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; theory of the rotation&nbsp; of&nbsp;&nbsp; the Earth on its own axis and&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the&nbsp; movement of the planets&nbsp; &nbsp; around the Sun. This theory&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; was to&nbsp; be confirmed by modern&nbsp; &nbsp; science. By comparing it&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with the&nbsp; case of the Pythagoreans, it&nbsp; &nbsp; is easy to put&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; forward the&nbsp; hypothesis of Muhammad as being a&nbsp; &nbsp; brilliant&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; thinker, who was&nbsp; supposed to have imagined all on&nbsp; his&nbsp;&nbsp; own&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; what modern&nbsp; science was to discover centuries later.&nbsp; In&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; so doing&nbsp; however, people quite simply forget to mention&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the other&nbsp; aspect of what these geniuses of philosophical&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; reasoning&nbsp; produced, i.e. the colossal blunders that&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; litter&nbsp; &nbsp; their work.&nbsp; It must be remembered for example,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; that the&nbsp; &nbsp; Pythagoreans&nbsp; also defended the theory whereby&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the Sun was fixed&nbsp; &nbsp; in space;&nbsp; they made it the centre of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the world and only&nbsp; &nbsp; conceived of a&nbsp; celestial order that&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; was centered on it. It is&nbsp; &nbsp; quite common&nbsp; in the works of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the great philosophers of&nbsp; &nbsp; antiquity to find&nbsp; a mixture of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; valid and invalid ideas about&nbsp; &nbsp; the Universe.&nbsp; The&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; brilliance of these human works comes from&nbsp; &nbsp; the advanced&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ideas they contain, but they should not make us&nbsp; &nbsp; overlook&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the mistaken concepts which have also been left to us.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From a strictly scientific point of view, this is what&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; distinguished them from the Quran. In the latter, many&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; subjects are referred to that have a bearing on modern&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; knowledge without one of them containing a statement that&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; contradicts what has been established by present-day&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; science.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]&nbsp; [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ibnanv, post: 17937378, member: 218596"] [FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][B][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][COLOR=#006666] [I]2. The Sun[/I][/COLOR][/FONT][/B] [SIZE=2]It is more difficult to conceive of the Sun's orbit because we are so used to seeing our solar system organized around it. To understand the verse from the Quran, the position of the Sun in our galaxy must be considered, and we must therefore call on modern scientific ideas.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Our galaxy includes a very large number of stars spaced so as to form a disc that is denser at the centre than at the rim. The Sun occupies a position in it which is far removed from the centre of the disc. The galaxy revolves on its own axis which is its centre with the result that the Sun revolves around the same centre in a circular orbit. Modern astronomy has worked out the details of this. In 1917, Shapley estimated the distance between the Sun and the centre of our galaxy at 10 kiloparsecs i.e., in miles, circa the figure 2 followed by 17 zeros. To complete one revolution on its own axis, the galaxy and Sun take roughly 250 million years. The Sun travels at roughly 150 miles per second in the completion of this.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]The above is the orbital movement of the Sun that was already referred to by the Quran fourteen centuries ago. The demonstration of the existence and details of this is one of the achievements of modern astronomy.[/SIZE] [B][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][COLOR=#006666] Reference to the Movement of the Moon and the Sun in Space With Their Own Motion[/COLOR][/FONT][/B] [SIZE=2]This concept does not appear in those translations of the Quran that have been made by men of letters. Since the latter know nothing about astronomy, they have translated the Arabic word that expresses this movement by one of the meanings the word has: 'to swim'. They have done this in both the French translations and the, otherwise remarkable, English translation by Yusuf Ali. [SIZE=2][COLOR=#FF0000][ Pub. Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, Lahore (Pakistan)][/COLOR][/SIZE] [/SIZE] [SIZE=2]The Arabic word referring to a movement with a self-propelled motion is the verb [I]sabaha[/I] ([I]yasbahuna[/I] in the text of the two verses). All the senses of the verb imply a movement that is associated with a motion that comes from the body in question. If the movement takes place in water, it is 'to swim'; it is 'to move by the action of one's own legs' if it takes place on land. For a movement that occurs in space, it is difficult to see how else this meaning implied in the word could be rendered other than by employing its original sense. Thus there seems to have been no mistranslation, for the following reasons. -The Moon completes its rotating motion on its own axis at the same time as it revolves around the Earth, i.e. 291/2 days (approx.), so that it always has the same side facing us. -The Sun takes roughly 25 days to revolve on its own axis. There are certain differences in its rotation at its equator and poles, (we shall not go into them here) but as a whole, the Sun is animated by a rotating motion.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]It appears therefore that a verbal nuance in the Quran refers to the Sun and Moon's own motion. These motions of the two celestial bodies are confirmed by the data of modern science, and it is inconceivable that a man living in the Seventh century A.D.-however knowledgeable he might have been in his day (and this was certainly not true in Muhammad's case) -could have imagined them.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]This view is sometimes contested by examples from great thinkers of antiquity who indisputably predicted certain data that modern science has verified. They could hardly have relied on scientific deduction however; their method of procedure was more one of philosophical reasoning. Thus the case of the pythagoreans is often advanced. In the Sixth century B.C., they defended the theory of the rotation of the Earth on its own axis and the movement of the planets around the Sun. This theory was to be confirmed by modern science. By comparing it with the case of the Pythagoreans, it is easy to put forward the hypothesis of Muhammad as being a brilliant thinker, who was supposed to have imagined all on his own what modern science was to discover centuries later. In so doing however, people quite simply forget to mention the other aspect of what these geniuses of philosophical reasoning produced, i.e. the colossal blunders that litter their work. It must be remembered for example, that the Pythagoreans also defended the theory whereby the Sun was fixed in space; they made it the centre of the world and only conceived of a celestial order that was centered on it. It is quite common in the works of the great philosophers of antiquity to find a mixture of valid and invalid ideas about the Universe. The brilliance of these human works comes from the advanced ideas they contain, but they should not make us overlook the mistaken concepts which have also been left to us. From a strictly scientific point of view, this is what distinguished them from the Quran. In the latter, many subjects are referred to that have a bearing on modern knowledge without one of them containing a statement that contradicts what has been established by present-day science.[/SIZE] [B][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][COLOR=#006666] [/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT] [/QUOTE]

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