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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alucard_SxE" data-source="post: 20154500" data-attributes="member: 531919">And then again, you don't seem to understand what "Kingsguard" is and what they stands for. (And this stands higher than any other vow he swore, even ignoring his loyalty to his house. All those things are secondary & non-important against this. That's the point of having a personal guard like this. That's why Aegon the Conqueror made a kingsguard). The oath of the kingsguard is described by many people who took it. From Barristan Selmy to Gerold Hightower to Oswell Whent to Jaime Lannister. You can find those things in the books.There's a difference between a person killing another person, and a person killing another person who entitled that person with the task of protecting him. Who trusted his life with him. And the other person, who swore a vow to protect the other person's life with his own. Let his blood fall before letting others shed the blood of the person he swore to protect.You don't seem to comprehend this. And,,,, "The first Kingsguard was created at the suggestion of Visenya Targaryen, after a Dornish assassination attempt on Aegon in the streets of King's Landing. She self-consciously modeled the Kingsguard vows of holding no lands or title on the ancient vows of the Night's Watch"There's a difference to what a person dreams of, what he thinks and what he says. AND NED DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE TOWER OF JOY, (well maybe except for the obvious things, such as they went there killed 3 of the kingsguard and saw lyanna dying & somethings to Bran as per reed saving him from Arthur.), AND he doesn't have any controversial decisions about it except for the secrecy that important event holds.But Jaime and his struggle for the decision he took seriously affects him & his character and there are many countless times he doubts himself and gets disappointed.I can't go back to the books and point them out one by one cause it'll take a lot of time but I'll try to use quotes and what I remember.And take this to account. That according to you the show brands NED as a liar but only after the show took a different path from the book. There's no such thing in the books. And I quoted that from the show because at that period the show was the same story as the book. Things were very similar then.And I'm not biased. I just reveal the facts and the decisions and accept for what they are.. You are just defending jaime from his accusations saying he chose to honour one vow because he took them seriously. So speaking about this particular vow.. I ask you were was his so called honour when he dropped bran? when he killed ned's men? and again did not honour his promise to Catelyn accordingly? Your honour of his as a knight only seem to appear during this certain event.1. It's not what he says to others that are lies. It's what he says to himself to justify his actions & that he points out those things to others which are lies.2. There are. As I've stated in several of the posts above..“That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.”– Jaime's thoughts on himself“I have made kings and unmade them. Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.”- Jaime to Brienne of Tarth"Make a habit of it, Lannister, and one day men might call you Goldenhand after all. Goldenhand the Just.”- thoughts of Jaime after hanging outlaws“Defeated in the Whispering Wood by the Young Wolf Robb Stark during the War of the Five Kings. Held captive at Riverrun and ransomed for a promise unfulfilled. Captured again by the Brave Companions, and maimed at the word of Vargo Hoat their captain, losing his sword hand to the blade of Zollo the Fat. Returned safely to King's Landing by Brienne, the Maid of Tarth.”- Jaime writing of himself in the White BookThis is why I say Jaime changes, but only after he becomes helpless by loosing his hand. Then his view of the world changes. (And might I add this difference is not only said by Jaime, but being observed by Brienne, Cersei and many others also) Again, you can understand what were the kingsguards' vows are by the people who interprets it."The first duty of the Kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king's commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and keep silent when it was not, serve his pleasure and defend his name and honor. Strictly speaking, it was purely the king's choice whether or not to extend Kingsguard protection to others, even those of the royal blood. Some kings thought it right and proper to dispatch Kingsguard to serve and defend their wives and children, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins of greater and lesser degree, and occasionally even their lovers, mistresses and bastards."- Barristan Selmy in ADWDOkay then, lets go to your main argument of this business with Aerys.The point you make towards Jaime withholding his vows as a knight is saying that, he killed aerys to save countless innocent lives.The thing is, you cannot hide behind that. Because whether or not he stopped the destruction of the city, the sack of landing is happening. (Doesn't matter whether one happened before or after the other. The point is it's happening) Jaime hides his actions behind this point to prove that the actions he took was correct. And I don't mean that disobeying his vows and acting against king's will isn't what he should do at this point. What I'm saying is, his irrational action of killing Aerys cold-bloodedly defines that he did not care about his vows. 1. No lannister would've raised a hand against Jaime. So even before the Sack started he could've gone to Tywin & co and came to an understanding. Or even sent a message. But he did not care for the actions or their consequences which were about to happen2. Even if he chose to ignore king's decisions, not honouring his vows as a member of the kigsguard, HE SHOULD NOT KILL THE KING. THAT'S OUT OF HIS HAND. Because that's the most important thing in the vow he took, and his action of killing Aerys cannot be justified.3. Even if he's not of the kingsguard, he can't go and simply murder a king because it's a crime. AKA KINGSLAYING. And to add that, at that point Aerys IS SIMPLY A HELPLESS OLD MAN. HE'S ISOLATED IN THE THRONE ROOM WHERE THERE IS NO EXIT. What does he do at that time? shits himself and crawls towards the Iron Throne. Helpless. It's against as per your knightly vows to kill a helpless man enemy or not, insane or not.. There should be a trial.Why would he kill Aerys there when he could simply captured him and held him accountable for his actions in a trial? Irrational & vile. And personal hatred. (For using him as a puppet, taking him away from Cersei). Anyone could've slit Aerys' throat at that time. But the hardest and the most rational thing to do in a PLACE like Jaime is to find a way not to kill him.That's why I said he should have sought out a third option.I never said that Jaime is the Hero or the Villain of the story. I simply said he did not care about his vows. Even to honour one by betraying the other.And you're telling that Jaime sought out everything you pointed out about betraying his oath from killing rossart to the trials in a same thought????  That he had planned out how it'll work out??(That's BS) Let's say as per you he thought all those and followed up with killing aerys..Then what's the point of talking about this other than calling him selfish? You can't hide behind the fact of killing Aerys to save innocent people. Because the innocent people were killed whether he killed Aryes or Not. Don't tell that he choose a lesser evil. Because he should have could have found a way to stop that too.And then again he could've protected Elia & her children in the Red Keep. At least provide them with some protection. Or at least give a shit about them. He did not.And then again there are facts and events to support & confirm Jaime's irrational and vile behaviour. Specially Bran's incident. He just simply threw him to his death. Even cersei claimed that was irrational.Jaime killed Aerys to save the City? That's just Blasphemy. It was already lost. He only made it an excuse to justify his actions at that time.“His brother never untied a knot when he could slash it in two with his sword.”– Tyrion Lannister's thoughts on JaimeThis is what Jaime was. And it wasn't for any honouring any vows, it was personal hatred, anger and irrational thinking.</blockquote>

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