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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Y2K" data-source="post: 10835059" data-attributes="member: 35049">Buddha: Yes, that's true, and I hesitate to say much more because, as you know, Jesus, after I realized enlightenment, I actually thought of spending my life without uttering a word of what I'd found. I was convinced that my discovery was unique and to most people unfathomable. But I broke my silence partly because my followers assured me that I was wrong in my appraisal that they wouldn't be able to understand the truth of my realizing nirvana.But I continue to believe that these concepts are lofty and difficult to explain. So how much can this woman understand, I still question? But this much she must understand: that she has to shake off this notion of a personal self. You're hoping we get back to her personal quest, Jesus, but I hope exactly the opposite. I hope that she will bury that personal pursuit once and for all.Jesus: Whatever else people may say of your teaching, Gautama, they cannot accuse you of not thinking about life's problems.You've talked about our ignorance in thinking we have a self, and you've also said you were reluctant to teach it at first, until your audience prevailed. I agree with at least one of the reasons. You cannot pour new wine into old wineskins.Buddha: Frankly, I'm a little uncomfortable with that metaphor, because my followers are prohibited from consuming alcohol.Jesus: Would you prefer that I say "You cannot take a patch of new cloth and sew it onto an old garment"?Buddha: I really like that.Boat Driver: My clothes prove it.Priya: Yes, I noticed.Jesus: But there's something deeper in your change of thought, Gautama, and I think it's important that we pursue it. You say that you had reached a place of perfect knowledge and understanding; yet you were corrected by your disciples, not merely on the timing, but on the very mission you ultimately set upon. Please tell me, doesn't that sound a bit odd?Light and darkness had commingled. Tranquillity was perfect. Knowledge was complete. No more desire. Yet the "unenlightened" were able to correct the "enlightened" and change your conclusion ... and you condescended? I'm not sure it makes sense. Can you explain a little more about how you, who claimed to know all, were persuaded to change your mind? And there were numerous other serious matters on which you yielded to their pressure.Buddha: Yes, that's true. Long after my enlightenment my father came to me and requested that no young person join my ranks without parental permission. He had a reason for that, of course: because I had left home without his permission. So I made that a precondition for any young man who wanted to join my ranks.As for my stepmother ... well, that's another story! She came to me three times and pleaded to be allowed into the ranks of the monks, and I didn't permit her to do so because I was uncertain about women being in the order. I felt it wasn't possible for women to really pay the price. Then she, along with several hundred women, shaved their heads and came once again, this time represented by my disciple Ananda, who persuaded me to accept them by reminding me of how she had sacrificially taken care of me. I finally relented and admitted them. I suppose these are the things you're thinking of.But Jesus, my followers have pointed out how God, too, changed His mind at the entreaty of Moses or Abraham. So what's the difference?Jesus: There is a fundamental difference, Gautama. And for Priya's sake, I truly hope this is understood.As I pointed out earlier, one of the biggest mistakes people make is to see a small point of similarity and forget the world of difference behind it. They end up straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel.Buddha: That metaphor stirs my eastern mind with delight! Please continue.Jesus: You see, Gautama, God has given His followers the privilege of prayer and intercession. Prayer is a constant reminder that the human being is not autonomous. Prayer in its most basic form is the surging of the human spirit in its weakness, grasping at the Spirit of God in His strength. Sometimes mere words cannot give shape to the longing of the heart. You see, Gautama, God answers every prayer by either giving what is asked for or reminding the petitioner that God's provision is built on His wisdom and executed in His time. But the answer is always for the instruction and nurture of the soul. Never is any new knowledge added to the mind of God.God doesn't respond because someone opens up some new insight for Him. No. In persistent, fervent prayer, God prepares the soil of one's heart to make room for the seed of His answer, from which will flower an alignment with His will.That's why I often told my disciples to be persistent and pray in faith. When the seed meets the soil and the season is right, the bloom touches heaven.Buddha: Beautifully put. But prayer is a dimension that doesn't fit in with my teaching.Jesus: Exactly! And this is the point. When you changed your mind, it wasn't because something had changed in the petitioner; something had changed in you. You drastically altered the very makeup of your following because you were moved from a place of disbelieving something to believing it.That's the reason I was careful to say that your disciples were able to change your assumptions and your conclusions-not the form, but the very substance.That is never true of God, who knows the beginning from the end. A plea for mercy does not diminish God's perfect knowledge. In fact, it is part of the very pattern God has designed for responding to the sincere heart.Priya: I passionately want to understand this, Jesus. I really do. How often I dreamed that my prayer-that my cry-was heard by some power greater than mine.Jesus: Isn't this also a core difference, Gautama? Just as the call of karma demands payment of a debt when there is no creditor to receive it, so with the desire of your followers to make a petition for their needs, there is no one to whom they can go.My prophet Isaiah talks of a man who went to sleep hungry. He dreamed during the night that he was at a banquet, feasting, only to wake up and find out it was a dream.Your followers meditate, they chant, they try to empty their minds of all desire; yet how does prayer slip in when there is no God to pray to?Buddha: Yes, there are cardinal differences between one who prays and one who meditates. One looks beyond and the other looks within. And it's true that with my followers prayer does "slip in," as you say. That's when reason is set aside and emotion triumphs.May I backtrack for a moment? There's at least a partial explanation for why I made some changes. But frankly, I don't want to get into all that because it's beside the point, Jesus. People make more of this than I intended. As you know, some of my followers have quarreled over this for centuries.The truth is that I lived for forty-five years after realizing nirvana before my parinirvana, my departure into oblivion, at death. But during those forty-five years there was a process of clarification for me. All understanding takes time. And I was no different.Jesus: I'm not much interested in the particulars either. I only raised the point because there's much more at stake here than just clarification.You see, Gautama, you made it very clear when you met your followers, long after you realized nirvana, that you needed no teacher. You made a major point of this, that you were taught by no one, that you were dependent upon no one, that your realization was completely self-caused and self-realizedjust as Priya's condition, you said, is self-caused and needs only the self to correct. Nothing more, no one else.You were emphatic that there was no need for God to explain the created order and no need for God to be your teacher. You said repeatedly that each person was his or her own refuge. Yet it's evident there was so much you still did not know. Your admission I respect; your reasoning on this doesn't comport with reality.There are mysteries to life that are still beyond you, yet you claim to have arrived. Is this not troublesome to you?Buddha: No, because I believe I have arrived.</blockquote>

Verification: Dawasata paya keeyak thibeda?

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