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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack_Sparrow" data-source="post: 3072962" data-attributes="member: 106688">Chicken or the egg                      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia                                                  Jump to: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#column-one" target="_blank">navigation</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#searchInput" target="_blank">search</a>                          <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:10-alimenti,uova,Taccuino_Sanitatis,_Casanatense_4182..jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/10-alimenti%2Cuova%2CTaccuino_Sanitatis%2C_Casanatense_4182..jpg/320px-10-alimenti%2Cuova%2CTaccuino_Sanitatis%2C_Casanatense_4182..jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></a>  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:10-alimenti,uova,Taccuino_Sanitatis,_Casanatense_4182..jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></a> Illustration from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacuinum_Sanitatis" target="_blank">Tacuina sanitatis</a>, Fourteenth century   The chicken or the egg <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality" target="_blank">causality</a> dilemma is commonly stated as "which came first, the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken" target="_blank">chicken</a> or the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_%28biology%29" target="_blank">egg</a>?" Chickens hatch from eggs, but eggs are laid by chickens, making it difficult to say which originally gave rise to the other. To ancient philosophers, the question about the first chicken or egg also evoked the questions of how life and the universe in general began.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Theosophy-0" target="_blank">[1]</a> Cultural references to the chicken and egg intend to point out the futility of identifying the first case of a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_cause_and_consequence" target="_blank">circular cause and consequence</a>.      //    History of the problem Ancient references to the dilemma are found in the writings of classical <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy" target="_blank">philosophers</a>. Their writings indicate that the proposed problem was perplexing to themselves and was commonly discussed by others of their time as well. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle" target="_blank">Aristotle</a> (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/384_BC" target="_blank">384</a>-<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/322_BC" target="_blank">322</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_Christ" target="_blank">BC</a>) was puzzled by the idea that there could be a first bird or egg and concluded that both the bird and egg must have always existed: "If there has been a first man he must have been born without father or mother – which is repugnant to nature. For there could not have been a first egg to give a beginning to birds, or there should have been a first bird which gave a beginning to eggs; for a bird comes from an egg." The same he held good for all species, believing, with Plato, that everything before it appeared on earth had first its being in spirit."<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Blavatsky-1" target="_blank">[2]</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarch" target="_blank">Plutarch</a> (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/46" target="_blank">46</a>-<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/126" target="_blank">126</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AD" target="_blank">AD</a>) referred to a hen rather than simply a bird. His is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moralia" target="_blank">Moralia</a> in the books titled "Table Talk" discussed a series of arguments based on questions posed in a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symposium" target="_blank">symposium</a>. Under the section entitled, "Whether the hen or the egg came first," the discussion is introduced in such a way suggesting that the origin of the dilemma was even older: "...the problem about the egg and the hen, which of them came first, was dragged into our talk, a difficult problem which gives investigators much trouble. And Sulla my comrade said that with a small problem, as with a tool, we were rocking loose a great and heavy one, that of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmogony" target="_blank">creation of the world</a>..."<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Morals-2" target="_blank">[3]</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrosius_Theodosius_Macrobius" target="_blank">Macrobius</a> (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/395" target="_blank">395</a>–<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/423" target="_blank">423</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AD" target="_blank">AD</a>), a Roman philosopher, found the problem to be interesting. "You jest about what you suppose to be a triviality, in asking whether the hen came first from an egg or the egg from a hen, but the point should be regarded as one of importance, one worthy of discussion, and careful discussion at that."<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Chicken_Book-3" target="_blank">[4]</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking" target="_blank">Stephen Hawking</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan" target="_blank">Christopher Langan</a> argue that the egg came before the chicken.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Bridge_School-4" target="_blank">[5]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Langan_Which-5" target="_blank">[6]</a>  Responses to the dilemma  Definitions The dilemma can be interpreted differently using different definitions of a chicken or an egg. In biology, the term <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_%28biology%29" target="_blank">egg is biologically ambiguous</a> and the theory of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium" target="_blank">Punctuated equilibrium</a>, for example, does not support a clear division between a chicken and the closest ancestors of that chicken. Both of those factors tend to contribute to the circular nature of the question (causing problems similar to either a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization" target="_blank">hasty generalization</a> or a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_definition" target="_blank">fallacy of definition</a>). Below are a few different definitions that could be assumed and their logical outcomes.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Langan_Which-5" target="_blank">[6]</a><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the egg is not necessarily of any specific type: Then it could be said that the egg came first, because other animals had been laying eggs long before chickens existed, such as the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur" target="_blank">dinosaurs</a>. In biology, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_%28biology%29" target="_blank">egg is used as a general term</a> in this way.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If only an egg that will hatch into a chicken can be considered a chicken egg: Then a re-consideration of the original question suggests: Some animal other than a chicken laid the first chicken egg which contained the first chicken. In this case the chicken egg came before the chicken. In reality, many scientific theories suggest that this would not have been a simple event. For example, the theory of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium" target="_blank">Punctuated equilibrium</a> theorizes that the actual <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation" target="_blank">speciation</a> of an organism from its ancestral species is usually the result of many mutations combined with new geographical surroundings, called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cladogenesis" target="_blank">Cladogenesis</a>.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If only an egg laid by a chicken can be considered a chicken egg: Then a re-consideration of the original question suggests: The first chicken (which hatched from a non-chicken egg) laid the first chicken egg. In this case the chicken came before the chicken egg. Again, this would not necessarily be a straightforward event.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If only an egg that is laid by a chicken and that will hatch into a chicken can be considered a chicken egg: Then the first chicken came from a different type of egg (not a chicken egg) and laid the first chicken egg. In this case eggs (in general) came first, the chicken came after, and the chicken egg came last.</li> </ul>Science and evolution See also: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution" target="_blank">Evolution</a> Species change over time in the process of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution" target="_blank">evolution</a>. Since <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA" target="_blank">DNA</a> can be modified only before birth, a mutation must have taken place at conception or within an egg such that an animal similar to a chicken, but not a chicken, laid the first chicken egg.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-CNN-6" target="_blank">[7]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-HSW-7" target="_blank">[8]</a> However, a mutation in one individual is not normally considered a new species. A <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation" target="_blank">speciation</a> event involves the separation of one population from its parent population, so that interbreeding ceases; this is the process whereby domesticated animals are genetically separated from their wild forebears. The whole separated group can then be recognized as a new species. The modern chicken was believed to have descended from another closely related species of birds, the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_junglefowl" target="_blank">red junglefowl</a>, but recently discovered <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics" target="_blank">genetic</a> evidence suggests that the modern domestic chicken is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_%28biology%29" target="_blank">hybrid</a> descendant of both the red junglefowl and the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Junglefowl" target="_blank">grey junglefowl</a>.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Eriksson-8" target="_blank">[9]</a> Assuming the evidence bears out, a hybrid is a compelling scenario that the egg came before the chicken.  [<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chicken_or_the_egg&action=edit&section=5" target="_blank">edit</a>] Theology See also: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism" target="_blank">Creationism</a> Theistic writings indicate the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism" target="_blank">creation</a> of birds along with the rest of the universe. Islam believes that God created everything in two pairs, so the chicken came first[<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed" target="_blank">citation needed</a>]. The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian" target="_blank">Judeo-Christian</a> story of creation describes God creating birds, and commanding them to multiply, but makes no direct mention of eggs. According to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_1" target="_blank">Genesis 1</a>: 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. 20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that moveth, wherewith the waters swarmed, after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Genesis1.19-22-9" target="_blank">[10]</a> However, a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution" target="_blank">theistic evolution</a> standpoint says that chicken eggs are how God created chickens.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-NCSE-10" target="_blank">[11]</a> By this argument, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God" target="_blank">God</a> created chickens through evolution, and could have created them as eggs. In <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu" target="_blank">Hindu</a> writings, creation of birds (and other life forms) by God through superhuman beings is stated in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pur%C4%81%E1%B9%87a" target="_blank">Purāṇas</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Purana-11" target="_blank">[12]</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma%C5%9B%C4%81stra" target="_blank">Dharmaśāstras</a>.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-Manu-12" target="_blank">[13]</a></blockquote>

Verification: Haya warak paha keeyada? (haya wadi kireema paha)

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