Did Lord Buddha prohibited eating meat??

[ex-muslim Ahmed]

Although I am a atheist I have learned Buddhism from a monk in forest and practiced it for years. This religion is the only religion that empowers men and women to take control of their ultimate destiny rejecting almighty god. Buddha is the only religious leader who claimed that he is the Greatest of the all in Universe. Therefore I have lot of respect for Buddhism.

Lets see what Lord Buddha's teaching on eating meat.

1) In the Pali Canon, Buddha explicitly declared meat-eating to be karma neutral and once explicitly refused suggestion by Devadatta to institute vegetarianism in the monks' Vinaya. Buddha's advice on meat eating was directed specifically to monks. In his comment, he stated that monks and nuns are not allowed to eat meat if they have seen, heard or suspect that the meat was killed specifically for them.
2)Theravada canon does not contain Buddha making a reference for lay followers' meat eating.

3)[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The Vinaya, then, is quite clear on this matter. Monks and nuns may eat meat. Even the Buddha ate meat. [/FONT]

 

[ela_eluwa120]

According to your post, meat eating is prohibited only when the animals are specifically killed for us. All clear. Roger that!

 

[ex-muslim Ahmed]

According to your post, meat eating is prohibited only when the animals are specifically killed for us. All clear. Roger that!

Yes, that is provided you are a monk and have to abide by the VINAYA.
If you are a layman there is no strict recommendation on meat eating.

 

[ela_eluwa120]

Yes, that is provided you are a monk and have to abide by the VINAYA.
If you are a layman there is no strict recommendation on meat eating.

Roger that too

 

[^Night Fury^]

There is no incident that Lord Buddha ate meat. Once he ate a curry named "sookara maddawa" Most of them called it a Pork. But it aint. That curry was made with Mushrooms where those can be found around Pig pits. In sinhala We call it as OOru Bimmal.

And Lord Buddha has said to avoid eating Special 10 different meats. I don't remember the whole lot. But that included Human meat, Beef, Bear meat, Dog meat, etc.....

 

[ex-muslim Ahmed]

There is no incident that Lord Buddha ate meat. Once he ate a curry named "sookara maddawa" Most of them called it a Pork. But it aint. That curry was made with Mushrooms where those can be found around Pig pits. In sinhala We call it as OOru Bimmal.

And Lord Buddha has said to avoid eating Special 10 different meats. I don't remember the whole lot. But that included Human meat, Beef, Bear meat, Dog meat, etc.....

Of course there is a debate as to what was " Sukaramaddawa" and there is no consensus on what it really was. Having said that Buddha , like many holy men in India was dependent on alms and offering of food by others. Probably alms were offered by farm owners and fishermen as well and Buddha would have accepted them without discrimination. This is the very reason Buddha in Vinaya pitaka stated that a Bhikku cannot reject an offering by a layman.


In the Amagandha Sutta in the Sutta Nipata, an vegetarian Brahmin confronts Kassapa Buddha (a previous Buddha before Gautama Buddha) in regard to the evil of eating meat. The Buddha countered the argument by listing acts which cause real moral defilement and then at the end of the verse, he emphasized that the consumption of meat is not equivalent to those acts. ("... this is the stench giving defilement, not the consumption of meat").
"taking life, beating, wounding, binding, stealing, lying, deceiving, worthless knowledge, adultery; this is stench. Not the eating of meat." (Amagandha Sutta).Thanks for the response.

 

[AncientGlory]

I've heard buddha has said that "Trikoti parishuddha meat" is ok to eat. Where did he say that this is only for monks? On what logical basis would it be prohibited only for monks?

2)Theravada canon does not contain Buddha making a reference for lay followers' meat eating.

Buddha's idea regarding eating meat, that is taken by harming an animal is quite clear.

(1) The first pansil is "panathipatha"
(2) In "Arya Ashtangika margaya" under "samma ajeewa"
-One should not do animal trading
-One should not do meat trading

It is very simple in my opinion. If a certain meat is not taken from an animal killed specifically for you, it is ok to eat it. However it is next to impossible to find such meat today.

The so called points,
(1) Devadatta's requests
(2) Buddha ate meat(Sookara maggawa)

are taken from Buddha's life story, not from dhamma.

The meat you would buy from a shop does not fall under "Thrikoti parishuddha", because that meat is specifically killed for the customers(you).

In the Amagandha Sutta in the Sutta Nipata, an vegetarian Brahmin confronts Kassapa Buddha (a previous Buddha before Gautama Buddha) in regard to the evil of eating meat. The Buddha countered the argument by listing acts which cause real moral defilement and then at the end of the verse, he emphasized that the consumption of meat is not equivalent to those acts. ("... this is the stench giving defilement, not the consumption of meat").
"taking life, beating, wounding, binding, stealing, lying, deceiving, worthless knowledge, adultery; this is stench. Not the eating of meat." (Amagandha Sutta).Thanks for the response.

Of course consumption of meat is not equivalent to killing. Consumption is not wrong at all, if it is a meat not killed for you. Above does not explain whether eating meat is wrong or right, it is merely a comparison of wrongful acts.

 

[ela_eluwa120]

I've heard buddha has said that "Trikoti parishuddha meat" is ok to eat. Where did he say that this is only for monks? On what logical basis would it be prohibited only for monks?



Buddha's idea regarding eating meat, that is taken by harming an animal is quite clear.

(1) The first pansil is "panathipatha"
(2) In "Arya Ashtangika margaya" under "samma ajeewa"
-One should not do animal trading
-One should not do meat trading

It is very simple in my opinion. If a certain meat is not taken from an animal killed specifically for you, it is ok to eat it. However it is next to impossible to find such meat today.

The so called points,
(1) Devadatta's requests
(2) Buddha ate meat(Sookara maggawa)

are taken from Buddha's life story, not from dhamma.

The meat you would buy from a shop does not fall under "Thrikoti parishuddha", because that meat is specifically killed for the customers(you).



Of course consumption of meat is not equivalent to killing. Consumption is not wrong at all, if it is a meat not killed for you. Above does not explain whether eating meat is wrong or right, it is merely a comparison of wrongful acts.

Nice to see you. Seriously, I was about to post a thread regarding you because you were not around here.

 

[ela_eluwa120]

I've heard buddha has said that "Trikoti parishuddha meat" is ok to eat. Where did he say that this is only for monks? On what logical basis would it be prohibited only for monks?



Buddha's idea regarding eating meat, that is taken by harming an animal is quite clear.

(1) The first pansil is "panathipatha"
(2) In "Arya Ashtangika margaya" under "samma ajeewa"
-One should not do animal trading
-One should not do meat trading

It is very simple in my opinion. If a certain meat is not taken from an animal killed specifically for you, it is ok to eat it. However it is next to impossible to find such meat today.

The so called points,
(1) Devadatta's requests
(2) Buddha ate meat(Sookara maggawa)

are taken from Buddha's life story, not from dhamma.

The meat you would buy from a shop does not fall under "Thrikoti parishuddha", because that meat is specifically killed for the customers(you).



Of course consumption of meat is not equivalent to killing. Consumption is not wrong at all, if it is a meat not killed for you. Above does not explain whether eating meat is wrong or right, it is merely a comparison of wrongful acts.

What does it mean to say "specifically killed for X"?

 

[ela_eluwa120]

What does it mean to say "specifically killed for X"?

Seriously, this question is getting more and more complicated than it seems at the first sight.

 

[Y2K]

Yes, that is provided you are a monk and have to abide by the VINAYA.
If you are a layman there is no strict recommendation on meat eating.

why double standards? even monks are human right?

 

[Y2K]

one can say Buddha is very cleaver , he inderectly say it is ok to eat meat, we know if all Buddist people stop eating meat , the demand will fall ultemately killing will stop because they will be a very little demand

So we can conclude that Buddha is ok with Meat sale in the Market with a nice packet (not specailly killed for you right)

Lol

 

[ex-muslim Ahmed]

මට උගන්නපු හමුදුරුවෝ හිටියෙ සුප්‍රසිද්ධ අභයභූමියක් මායිමේ දුප්පත් ගමක් කිට්ටුව කැලේ. සමහර දවසට හමුදුරුවන්ට දානෙ ලැබුනා. හුඟ දවසකට මොනවත් ලැබුනේ නැහැ. ඒත් ඒ හාමුදුරුවෝ ඒ කිසි දෙයකින් සැලුනේ නැහැ. මට අදත් පුදුමයි මතක් වෙන කොට. හැමවෙලේම මඳසිනාවක් තිබුනා. හරි ශාන්තයි. භාවනා කරන්න මයි කැමැත්ත. ගැඩවිලෙක් හැකරැල්ලෙක් ගොලු බෙල්ලෙක් දැක්කොත් උන්ව පරිස්සමින් අරන් කැලේට දානව. දානෙ නැති දාට ඒ හාමුදුරුවෝ රොටියක් පුච්චං කනව. ඒ වුනාට ඇඟ කෙට්ටු වුනෙ නැහැ. හරි ප්‍රීතියකින් ඉන්නව කියල මයි හිතෙන්නෙ. සමහර දාට ගමේ අය අපිට ගෙනත් දෙනව මුවමස්, හාමස්, වල් ඌරු මස්, තව ඔය ඉගිලෙන්න බැරි කුරුල්ලෙක්ගෙ මස් (මට නම මතක නැහැ ). හාමුදුරුවෝ ඒ සියල්ල පිලි අරන් ඒ දුප්පත් ගම්මුන්ට පින් දුන්න. පස්සේ එතුමා මට කිව්ව, මේ සමහර මස් නීතිවිරෝධී, මේ සත්තු මරන්න බැහැ කියල. මහ පුදුම අනුකම්පාවක් තිබුන ඒ ගම්මු ගැන. එතුමා කිව්ව "මට කන්න නැති දවසට ඔය ගමෙත් හුඟක් වැඩිහිටියො කන්නේ නැහැ, ඒ මිනිස්සුන්ට තියෙන එකෙන් හොඳම කොටස තමයි මට දෙන්නේ" කියල. මම එතුමාගෙන් මස් කෑම ගැන ඇහුවම එතුමා හිනාවෙලා කිව්ව " අහමඩ්, සීලබ්බත පරාමාස කියන එක හරියට තේරුම් ගන්න" කියල.

මම ආයේත් ඕක ඇහුවම එතුම හිනාවෙලා කිව්වා " අහමඩ්, එන්න මම විදර්ශනාව වඩන හැටි කියල දෙන්නම්, මම උදවු කරන්නම්" කියල. "මේ ජීවිතේ හරි බියජනකයි අහමඩ්, මේකෙන් ගැලවෙන්න බලන්න කියල කිව්ව." මේක ඔරුවක් අහමඩ් මේක ඔරුවක්, එක තැනකට ආවම මේක බිමින් තියල තනියම ඉතුරු ටික යන්න වෙනවා" කියලා එතුමා කිව්ව. ඔරුව කිව්වෙ විනය පිටකයට මම හිතන්නෙ.

මට නම් කියන්න තියෙන්නෙ මස් කෑවම පවු නම් ඒක බුදුහාමුදුරුවෝ පන්සිල්වලට දානව. මේව ඇවිල්ල අර කිව්ව වගෙ කෙස් පලාගෙන තර්ක කරන්න ඕනෙ දෙවල් නෙවෙයි. ඒත් කෙස්පලාගෙන තර්ක කරල , දත කාගෙන කරන්න දේවල් තියෙද්දි නිසරු ප්‍රස්න අහල කාලේ නාස්ති කරන්න එපා වගේ කතාවක් තමා එතුමා කිව්වේ.

මටත් ඒක තේරෙන්නේ දැන්.

 

[ex-muslim Ahmed]

What does it mean to say "specifically killed for X"?

If you insist, in my humble opinion "specifically Killed" is killing with the intention of providing food for a specific person or group of people.

I wonder if that's the case when fishermen kill fish or cows killed in slaughter house. I think those who do the animal slaughter for livelihood are doing it with the intention of providing for their family, without any hatred or grudge against the animal that is killed.

In most cases I honestly dont think that they "specifically" know and are killing for a specific group of people. Atmost the worst case is that they are killing for the "WORLD AT LARGE" which loses the whole idea of "Specificity"

 

[AncientGlory]

Nice to see you. Seriously, I was about to post a thread regarding you because you were not around here.

Sorry mate, I was actually away for a month or so and did not really have time to come here. I remember I left a discussion with you unfinished, but can't really find which thread that was. lol. Thanks for the concern man.

 

[AncientGlory]

What does it mean to say "specifically killed for X"?

ත්‍රිකෝටි පාරිශුද්ධ මාංශයක් ගැන මජ්ඣිම නිකායේ ජීවක සූත්‍රයෙහි සඳහන් වෙන බවක් කියනවා.

තමන් වෙනුවෙන් මැරූ බව නොදුටු (අදිට්ඨං)
තමන් වෙනුවෙන් මැරූ බව නොඇසූ (අසූතං)
තමන් වෙනුවෙන් මැරූ බව සැකයක් නොමැති (අපරිසංඛිතං) සත්ත්ව මාංශයයි.


As I see, Meat that we buy from a shop is killed for us and therefore is not suitable to eat. Buy eating that meat and creating a demand for meat we become a part of the action of killing that animal. Just my opinion.

I agree that it is a very complicated issue though.

 

[AncientGlory]

මට නම් කියන්න තියෙන්නෙ මස් කෑවම පවු නම් ඒක බුදුහාමුදුරුවෝ පන්සිල්වලට දානව. මේව ඇවිල්ල අර කිව්ව වගෙ කෙස් පලාගෙන තර්ක කරන්න ඕනෙ දෙවල් නෙවෙයි. ඒත් කෙස්පලාගෙන තර්ක කරල , දත කාගෙන කරන්න දේවල් තියෙද්දි නිසරු ප්‍රස්න අහල කාලේ නාස්ති කරන්න එපා වගේ කතාවක් තමා එතුමා කිව්වේ.

මටත් ඒක තේරෙන්නේ දැන්.

මමත් එකඟ වෙනවා මේවා ගොඩක් තර්ක කරන්න අවශ්‍ය දේවල් නොවේ. හැම කෙනාටම තමාට අනන්‍ය වූ අත්දැකීම,තර්කන,විශ්ලේශන මගින් ගොඩ නගා ගත්ත අදහස් තියෙනවා. තමාට හරි කියලා හැඟෙන දෙය තමා, කොහොමත් තමා කරන්නේ.
ඒත් තර්ක කලා කතා කලා කියලා පාඩුවක් වෙයි කියලා නම් මට හිතෙන්නේ නැත.

මස් කන එක පවු කියලා බුදුන් කියලා නැහැ. එ නිසා ඒක පන්සිල් වල දාන්ඩ අවශ්‍ය නැහැ. බුදුන් කිව්වේ ප්‍රාණඝාත වලට හවුල් වෙන්ඩ එපා කියලා. කුමන විදිහේ මස් කෑවොත්ද ප්‍රාණඝාතයකට හවුල් වෙන්නේ කියන එකයි තියෙන ප්‍රශ්නය.

 

[ex-muslim Ahmed]

I've heard buddha has said that "Trikoti parishuddha meat" is ok to eat. Where did he say that this is only for monks? On what logical basis would it be prohibited only for monks?



Buddha's idea regarding eating meat, that is taken by harming an animal is quite clear.

(1) The first pansil is "panathipatha"
(2) In "Arya Ashtangika margaya" under "samma ajeewa"
-One should not do animal trading
-One should not do meat trading

It is very simple in my opinion. If a certain meat is not taken from an animal killed specifically for you, it is ok to eat it. However it is next to impossible to find such meat today.

The so called points,
(1) Devadatta's requests
(2) Buddha ate meat(Sookara maggawa)

are taken from Buddha's life story, not from dhamma.

The meat you would buy from a shop does not fall under "Thrikoti parishuddha", because that meat is specifically killed for the customers(you).



Of course consumption of meat is not equivalent to killing. Consumption is not wrong at all, if it is a meat not killed for you. Above does not explain whether eating meat is wrong or right, it is merely a comparison of wrongful acts.

Sorry I did not see this response.

I have heard about "Thrikote paarishudda maanshaya" , do you know in which pitaka it is mentioned?

I agree with your argument, that Devadatta's claim and sukara maddava is from Buddha's life story and is not a part of Dhamma.
I have been a vegetarian for almost 15 years now (Except for a 3 year period I spent in the forest with the monk learning Buddhism).

The danger in "thrikoti parishudda mansha" is that it is very easy tool for some people to drive Buddhism in to a meaningless "Ahimsa (non violence)-extreme" which would ultimately end up in a "Buddhist taliban" kind of set up.

Of course it is OK for us laymen to argue on Dhamma and no offense was intended in anyway to your response. What I meant was, for those who believe that there is a "Nirvana" and who vigorously pursue such end, it is a meaningless endeavor.

I hope you join this discussion more often and enlighten us more on this topic and thanks again for the response.

 

[AncientGlory]

Sorry I did not see this response.

I have heard about "Thrikote paarishudda maanshaya" , do you know in which pitaka it is mentioned?

I agree with your argument, that Devadatta's claim and sukara maddava is from Buddha's life story and is not a part of Dhamma.
I have been a vegetarian for almost 15 years now (Except for a 3 year period I spent in the forest with the monk learning Buddhism).

The danger in "thrikoti parishudda mansha" is that it is very easy tool for some people to drive Buddhism in to a meaningless "Ahimsa (non violence)-extreme" which would ultimately end up in a "Buddhist taliban" kind of set up.

Of course it is OK for us laymen to argue on Dhamma and no offense was intended in anyway to your response. What I meant was, for those who believe that there is a "Nirvana" and who vigorously pursue such end, it is a meaningless endeavor.

I hope you join this discussion more often and enlighten us more on this topic and thanks again for the response.

I've never read the specific part myself, People say that it is mentioned in Majjima Nikaya Jeewaka Sutta.

This is a very important discussion and I have myself brought this up before. Thanks for raising the topic.

 

[surfall]

ළඟදීම කබරගොයා තලගොයා වෙයි වගේ..lol

Seems like mr ex has left bashing others and started looking into what he believes (or what he thinks he believes..)
Next step would be to stop engaging in fruitless worldly arguments and get your ipod and back to jungle..?