A BEST ANSWER TO ATHEIST (INTRESTING CONVERSATION)

hafizsaad

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in the city of Baghdad, there was a Muslim empire. On one side of the River Tigris were the royal palaces and on the other side was the city. The Muslims were gathered in the Royal Palace when an athiest approached them.
He said to them, 'I don't believe in God, there cannot be a God, you cannot hear Him or see Him, you're wasting your time! Bring me your best debator and I will debate this issue with him.'

The best debator at the time was Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimullah. A messenger from amongst the Muslims was sent over the River Tigris to the city, where Abu Hanifah Rahimullah was, in order to tell him about the athiest who was awaiting him.

The messenger went over the River Tigris once again and to the Royal Palaces, where everyone including the athiest awaited the arrival of Abu Hanifah Rahimullah. It was sunset at the time and one hour had passed, but Abu Hanifah Rahimullah still hadn't arrived. Another hour had passed, but still there was no sign of him. The Muslims started to become tense and worried about his late arrival. They did not want the athiest to think that they were too scared to debate him, yet they did not want to take up the challenge themselves as Abu Hanifah Rahimullah was the best of Debators from amongst the Muslims. Another hour passed, and suddenly the athiest started laughing and said, ' Your best debator is too scared! He knows he's wrong, he is too frightened to come and debate with me. I gurantee he will not turn up today.'

The Muslims increased in apprehension and eventually it had passed midnight, and the athiest had a smile on his face.
The clock ticked on, and finally Abu Hanifah Rahimullah had arrived. The Muslims inquired about his lateness and remarked, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, a messenger sent for you hours ago, and you arrive now, explain your lateness to us.'

Abu Hanifah Rahimullah apologises for his lateness and begins to explain, while the atheist listens to his story.

'Once the messenger delivered the message to me, I began to make my way to the River Tigris, and on reaching the river bank I realised there was no boat, in order to cross the river. It was getting dark, and I looked around, there was no boat anywhere nor was there a navigator or a sailor in order for me to cross the river to get to the Royal Palaces. I continued to look around for a boat, as I did not want the athiest to think I was running away and did not want to debate with him.

I was standing on the river bank looking for a navigator or a boat when something caught my attention in the middle of the river. I looked forward, and to my amazement I saw planks of wood rising to the surface from the sea bed. I was shocked, amazed, I couldn't believe what I saw seeing. Ready made planks of wood were rising up to the surface and joining together. They were all the same width and length, I was astounded at what I saw.

I continued to look into the middle of the river, and then I saw nails coming up from the sea floor. They positioned themselves onto the boat and held the planks together, without them being banged. I stood in amazement and thought to myself, 'Oh Allah, how can this happen, planks of wood rising to the surface by itself, and then nails positioning themselves onto the boat without being banged?' I could not undertsand what was happening before my eyes.'

The athiest meanwhile was listening with a smile on his face. Abu Hanifah Rahimullah continued, 'I was still standing on the river bank watching these planks of wood join together with nails. I could see water seeping through the gaps in the wood, and suddenly I saw a sealant appear from the river and it began sealing the gaps without someone having poured it, again I thought, 'Ya Allah, how is this possible, how can sealant appear and seal the gaps without someone having poured it, and nails appear without someone having banged them.' I looked closer and I could see a boat forming before my eyes, I stood in amazement and was filled with shock. All of a sudden a sail appeared and I thought to myself, 'How is this happening, a boat has appeared before my eyes by itself, planks of wood, nails, sealant and now a sail, but how can I use this boat in order to cross the river to the Royal Palaces?' I stood staring in wonderment and suddenly the boat began to move. It came towards me against the current. It stood floating beside me while I was on the river bank, as if telling me to embark onto it. I went on the boat and yet again it began to move. There was no navigator or sailor on the boat, and the boat began to travel towards the direction of the royal palaces, without anyone having programmed it as to where to go. I could not understand what was happening, and how this boat had formed and was taking me to my destination against the flow of water. The boat eventually reached the other side of the River Tigris and I disembarked. I turned around and the boat had disappeared, and that is why I am late.'


At this moment, the athiest brust out laughing and remarked, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, I heard that you were the best debator from amongst the Muslims, I heard that you were the wisest, the most knowledgable from amongst your people. From seeing you today, I can say that you show none of these qualities. You speak of a boat appearing from nowhere, without someone having built it. Nails positioning themselves without someone having banged them, sealant being poured without someone having poured it, and the boat taking you to your destination without a navigator against the tide, your taking childish, your talking rediculous, I swear I do not belive a word of it!'

Abu Hanifah Rahimullah turned to the athiest and replied, 'You don't believe a word of it? You dont believe that nails can appear by themselves? You dont believe sealant can be poured by itself? You dont believe that a boat can move without a navigator, hence you don't believe that a boat can appear without a boat maker?'

The athiest remarked defiantly, 'Yes I dont believe a word of it!'

Abu Hanifah Rahimullah replied, 'If you cannot believe that a boat came into being without a boat maker, than this is only a boat, how can you believe that the whole world, the universe, the stars, the oceans, and the planets came into being without a creator?


The athiest astonished at his reply got up and fled.




.
 

Mononoke

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I keep Hearing this argument over and over again, frankly its farcical after the one billionth time. Nevertheless, let try and give and answer.

To put it concisely you are saying that there cannot be creation without a creator. It is the classic telelogical argument of William Palay. This is a dead horse. There is no reason to beleive that just because there is order in the world we must associate agency. More importantly that agency has to be sentient is a shortcoming of the human intellect, which we have overcome if there is any future left for us on this planet.

Now I like to move on to a more direct response. We see enough and more instances of complex systems arising out of simple and mindless natural processes. A good example would be the spontaneous creation of Bernard Cells, if you don't trust me wiki it. Neuron firing sequences would also be another good example. Fractal are probably the best example of this. Take a good look at his picture.

Fractal_fern1.png


This looks like a fern leaf. Now according to your argument an intelligent being must design it. No, you are wrong. That is a structure that was randomly generated through a computer algorithm. The people generated this image were not aiming for something life this, they had no idea what the output of the algorithm would be. Nature is full of things like this, randomly and mindlessly generated instances of complexity and order. If you have some technical education in Mathematics i suggest you read up on Fractals and Chaos Theory. It will probably illuminate you.
 
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hafizsaad

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You are becoming over confident. your words shows that athiest was mental person as he had not convinced with abu hanifa words. it mean you are convince with abu hanifa that was claimed that all my boat created itself ...etc.

man you are deceiving yourself with very weak comments .

answer me
who has created computer system ?

you say "That is a structure that was randomly generated through a computer algorithm.

can your computer generates this without proper instructions. ?

i suggest you to place all computer parts material in your house for 40 year and argue all your relative that it will become computer in 50 years and make structure itself.not a single person say you a normal man.
 

3.5G

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    You are becoming over confident. your words shows that athiest was mental person as he had not convinced with abu hanifa words. it mean you are convince with abu hanifa that was claimed that all my boat created itself ...etc.

    man you are deceiving yourself with very weak comments .

    answer me
    who has created computer system ?

    you say "That is a structure that was randomly generated through a computer algorithm.

    can your computer generates this without proper instructions. ?

    i suggest you to place all computer parts material in your house for 40 year and argue all your relative that it will become computer in 50 years and make structure itself.not a single person say you a normal man.

    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     

    Mononoke

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    The point is that the algorithm had no explicit instruction to generate that shape or any shape for that matter. It simply ran some mindless code. The shape is something evolved out of the algorithm. We can also see this in the brain. The human brain becomes a jumbled mess after neuron firing sequences, but promptly reorganizes itself because a few governing PHYSCIAL principles. The main point here is we can see simple physical laws acting in such a way as to organize complex system with no agency involved, the instructions are there in the physical laws.

    The analogy about the self organization of a computer is silly. Just because nature doesn't create computers doesn't mean complicated designs don't arise form simple natural laws. If you really want a computer that arose from natural selection the human brain is probably the best example.
     
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    hafizsaad

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    i have said this earlier all things are created by, not created theirself. and required certain principles. in our examples principles for computer has been made by human being and principle for universe has been made by a supernatural personality we say "Allah". the God.
     

    Mononoke

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    So you are willing to accept that humans, the oceans, the galaxies are a direct consequence of the physical laws. And that these laws can sustain the Universe. All you are pushing for is that God created the fundamental laws that govern the universe.

    Firstly, I don't have a problem with that type of god. This god not a person it is force at best. The only reason you think this god is person is because you see humans creating computers, and you assume that you can extend this to everything. But I see Nature creating more Nature, and there is no need for a supernatural personality to create the Universe. We can see both an agent driven and and agent-less forms of creation, and agent-less model seem to be far more successful.

    But more importantly, saying a supernatural deity created everything does not resolve the question. who created God, if 'all things are created'. Surely, how did god come about. Please don't say he is eternal. Because that doesn't answer anything, it's a cop-out. We have no reason to believe that idea besides 'faith'. Now don't get me wrong, I believe that we need faith. Faith is an integral part of logic and reason. But I beleive that we should restrict our faith to as little a domain as possible.

    I also feel that people resort to an eternal agent because they don't understand how time works. There is no reason to believe that future events can't affect the past. Infact, there is a solution to the Wheeler-deWitt equation that shows that the universe can spontaneously create itself from a future instance of it. Again, feel free to wiki this stuff. this resolves the questions about creation and creator, becasue now it is permissible for the creation to create the creation.
     
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    Mononoke

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    Think about it this way. If Allah is only concerned the fundamental laws that govern the universe. Why do you worship him?

    I am also tried of people putting God in all the places where science hasn't answered formulated a consummate answer, yet.
     
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    njsa

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    [QUOTE=Mononoke;5576326]The point is that the algorithm had no explicit instruction to generate that shape or any shape for that matter. It simply ran some mindless code. The shape is something evolved out of the algorithm. We can also see this in the brain. The human brain becomes a jumbled mess after neuron firing sequences, but promptly reorganizes itself because a few governing PHYSCIAL principles. The main point here is we can see simple physical laws acting in such a way as to organize complex system with no agency involved, the instructions are there in the physical laws.

    its true human brain get jumbled.u know reason y????? for what type of issues? see thats y god sent many revelations to make human more relax and be a useful person to society.

    The analogy about the self organization of a computer is silly. Just because nature doesn't create computers doesn't mean complicated designs don't arise form simple natural laws. If you really want a computer that arose from natural selection the human brain is probably the best example.[/QUOTE]

    there isnt anything call as nature law but only god's.thats y many scientist convert & believe in god. because they cant even imagine how all mentioned in quran 1400 years ago what they discover today.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhHr7OBQrKs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA3wcKYcTfw&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z73ohM_Rjw&feature=related
     
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    Mononoke

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    The point is that the algorithm had no explicit instruction to generate that shape or any shape for that matter. It simply ran some mindless code. The shape is something evolved out of the algorithm. We can also see this in the brain. The human brain becomes a jumbled mess after neuron firing sequences, but promptly reorganizes itself because a few governing PHYSCIAL principles. The main point here is we can see simple physical laws acting in such a way as to organize complex system with no agency involved, the instructions are there in the physical laws.

    its true human brain get jumbled.u know reason y????? for what type of issues? see thats y god sent many revelations to make human more relax and be a useful person to society.

    The analogy about the self organization of a computer is silly. Just because nature doesn't create computers doesn't mean complicated designs don't arise form simple natural laws. If you really want a computer that arose from natural selection the human brain is probably the best example.

    there isnt anything call as nature law but only god's.thats y many scientist convert & believe in god. because they cant even imagine how all mentioned in quran 1400 years ago what they discover today.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhHr7OBQrKs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA3wcKYcTfw&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z73ohM_Rjw&feature=related

    And your point is that a handful of no named scientist converted to islam. Are you blind to the hundreds and thousands of people who denounce thier faith and emancipate them selves. In this crowd you get genuinely big names, not a bunch of no names. If it's the numbers game I think my side wins.
     

    3.5G

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    And your point is that a handful of no named scientist converted to islam. Are you blind to the hundreds and thousands of people who denounce thier faith and emancipate them selves. In this crowd you get genuinely big names, not a bunch of no names. If it's the numbers game I think my side wins.

    he he hare we go again :lol::lol::lol:
     
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    hafizsaad

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    So you are willing to accept that humans, the oceans, the galaxies are a direct consequence of the physical laws. And that these laws can sustain the Universe. All you are pushing for is that God created the fundamental laws that govern the universe.

    Firstly, I don't have a problem with that type of god. This god not a person it is force at best. The only reason you think this god is person is because you see humans creating computers, and you assume that you can extend this to everything. But I see Nature creating more Nature, and there is no need for a supernatural personality to create the Universe. We can see both an agent driven and and agent-less forms of creation, and agent-less model seem to be far more successful.

    But more importantly, saying a supernatural deity created everything does not resolve the question. who created God, if 'all things are created'. Surely, how did god come about. Please don't say he is eternal. Because that doesn't answer anything, it's a cop-out. We have no reason to believe that idea besides 'faith'. Now don't get me wrong, I believe that we need faith. Faith is an integral part of logic and reason. But I beleive that we should restrict our faith to as little a domain as possible.

    I also feel that people resort to an eternal agent because they don't understand how time works. There is no reason to believe that future events can't affect the past. Infact, there is a solution to the Wheeler-deWitt equation that shows that the universe can spontaneously create itself from a future instance of it. Again, feel free to wiki this stuff. this resolves the questions about creation and creator, becasue now it is permissible for the creation to create the creation.

    i have studied your whole philosphy.Your philosphy is revoling around your certain point on which you are insisting from the begining. i invite you as" you have said that nature create more nature" then answer me the questioned in a rational and natural ways.

    Natural selection is not a mechanism that produces anything new and thus causes species to change, one that works miracles, such as causing a reptile to gradually turn into a bird. In the words of the well-known biologist D’Arcy Wentworth Thompson, “... We see in natural selection is not to create but to destroy—to weed, to prune, to cut down and to cast into the fire.”3

    go to the origin of the whole universe not only earth or solar system then tell me who has created the origin of it ?


    man our mind has limit, there is the place come at where our intelligence and knowledge stop to answer and then we are start assuming. don't assume as you have give point for it "We have no reason to believe that idea besides 'faith'. Now don't get me wrong, I believe that we that Faith which is an integral part of logic and reason.""
    I claim that the Theory of Evolution Are a Complete Violation of Reason and Logic.

    Today, speculation and scientific research into cosmology lies outside the realm of religion, to the extent that some scientists today do not consider the creation of the universe to be a divine act altogether. However, these scientists are forgetting that when they trace the origin of the universe to its origin, or to that moment that sparked the beginning ....... they too concede that science becomes unable to function, for at that initial moment all the laws of physics seem to break down.


    ISLAMIC IDEA FOR CREATION OF UNIVERSE

    Quran has given the idea for the creation of universe 1400 year before when there was no technical and scientific advancement start.There are several verses in the Qur'an which some modern writers have interpreted as being compatible with the expansion of the universe, Big Bang and Big Crunch theories:[11][12][13]

    "Do not the Unbelievers see that the skies (space) and the earth were joined together, then We clove them asunder and We created every living thing out of the water. Will they not then believe?"[Qur'an 21:30]

    "Then turned He to the sky (space) when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient."[Qur'an 41:11]

    "And it is We Who have constructed the sky (space) with might, and it is We Who are steadily expanding it."[Qur'an 51:47]

    "On the day when We will roll up the sky (space) like the rolling up of the scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about."[Qur'an 21:104]


    There is a single answer to be given to the question of what existed before the Big Bang: God, the All-powerful and the Almighty, Who created the earth and the heavens in great order. Many scientists, be they believers or not, are obliged to admit this truth. Although they may decline to admit this fact on scientific platforms, their confessions in between the lines give them away. Renowned atheist philosopher Anthony Flew says:

    Notoriously, confession is good for the soul. I will therefore begin by confessing that the Stratonician atheist has to be embarrassed by the contemporary cosmological consensus.

    In conclusion, science points to a single reality whether materialist scientists like it or not. Matter and time have been created by a Creator, Who is All-Powerful and Who created the heavens, the earth and all that is in between:

    For evolution of Human being


    In the Quran it is stated that God made men out of clay. Our concept of the creation of man is that God, like a potter, moulded clay into shape and breathed his spirit into it and Adam was thus created. Possibly this was the process but what does one do with verses 18:37, 22:5, 25:11, 40:67 which state time and again that God created man from clay and sperm? It is obvious that clay does not create sperm: it comes from an animal and a human being. It means that the mention of all intermediary stages of evolution has been omitted and attention is drawn to the original source, which is clay. The last cause is the sperm of man which stays in the womb of a woman”. the worst example of this attitude is the definition of evolution that from the Quran “He created you in stages” (Wallah-o-Khalaqaqum Atwara ,71:14). The word tawr is the basis of tatawwar, which means evolution. This is then further defended: This can also mean that God created man as a mineral in the first instance. Mineral developed into vegetation, which developed into animal life. There is no contradiction.

     

    Mononoke

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    i have studied your whole philosphy.Your philosphy is revoling around your certain point on which you are insisting from the begining. i invite you as" you have said that nature create more nature" then answer me the questioned in a rational and natural ways.

    Natural selection is not a mechanism that produces anything new and thus causes species to change, one that works miracles, such as causing a reptile to gradually turn into a bird. In the words of the well-known biologist D’Arcy Wentworth Thompson, “... We see in natural selection is not to create but to destroy—to weed, to prune, to cut down and to cast into the fire.”3

    go to the origin of the whole universe not only earth or solar system then tell me who has created the origin of it ?


    man our mind has limit, there is the place come at where our intelligence and knowledge stop to answer and then we are start assuming. don't assume as you have give point for it "We have no reason to believe that idea besides 'faith'. Now don't get me wrong, I believe that we that Faith which is an integral part of logic and reason.""
    I claim that the Theory of Evolution Are a Complete Violation of Reason and Logic.

    Today, speculation and scientific research into cosmology lies outside the realm of religion, to the extent that some scientists today do not consider the creation of the universe to be a divine act altogether. However, these scientists are forgetting that when they trace the origin of the universe to its origin, or to that moment that sparked the beginning ....... they too concede that science becomes unable to function, for at that initial moment all the laws of physics seem to break down.


    ISLAMIC IDEA FOR CREATION OF UNIVERSE

    Quran has given the idea for the creation of universe 1400 year before when there was no technical and scientific advancement start.There are several verses in the Qur'an which some modern writers have interpreted as being compatible with the expansion of the universe, Big Bang and Big Crunch theories:[11][12][13]

    "Do not the Unbelievers see that the skies (space) and the earth were joined together, then We clove them asunder and We created every living thing out of the water. Will they not then believe?"[Qur'an 21:30]

    "Then turned He to the sky (space) when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient."[Qur'an 41:11]

    "And it is We Who have constructed the sky (space) with might, and it is We Who are steadily expanding it."[Qur'an 51:47]

    "On the day when We will roll up the sky (space) like the rolling up of the scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about."[Qur'an 21:104]


    There is a single answer to be given to the question of what existed before the Big Bang: God, the All-powerful and the Almighty, Who created the earth and the heavens in great order. Many scientists, be they believers or not, are obliged to admit this truth. Although they may decline to admit this fact on scientific platforms, their confessions in between the lines give them away. Renowned atheist philosopher Anthony Flew says:

    Notoriously, confession is good for the soul. I will therefore begin by confessing that the Stratonician atheist has to be embarrassed by the contemporary cosmological consensus.

    In conclusion, science points to a single reality whether materialist scientists like it or not. Matter and time have been created by a Creator, Who is All-Powerful and Who created the heavens, the earth and all that is in between:

    For evolution of Human being


    In the Quran it is stated that God made men out of clay. Our concept of the creation of man is that God, like a potter, moulded clay into shape and breathed his spirit into it and Adam was thus created. Possibly this was the process but what does one do with verses 18:37, 22:5, 25:11, 40:67 which state time and again that God created man from clay and sperm? It is obvious that clay does not create sperm: it comes from an animal and a human being. It means that the mention of all intermediary stages of evolution has been omitted and attention is drawn to the original source, which is clay. The last cause is the sperm of man which stays in the womb of a woman”. the worst example of this attitude is the definition of evolution that from the Quran “He created you in stages” (Wallah-o-Khalaqaqum Atwara ,71:14). The word tawr is the basis of tatawwar, which means evolution. This is then further defended: This can also mean that God created man as a mineral in the first instance. Mineral developed into vegetation, which developed into animal life. There is no contradiction.


    I'm going to try to be trite. The bit about Darwinian forces not being constructive is firstly wrong and more criminally you have taken Sir D'Arcy Wentworth Thompsons' word out of context. Wentworth was a naturalist and a darwinist through and through. He proposed what is now called structuralism as a complementary force to natural selection. He even won the darwin medal. The reptiles not not evolving into birds argument is false. Because it is unequivocally accepted that bird evolved from raptors, incase you don't know what raptors are they are the things that tried to eat the kid in kitchen scene Jurassic park. They are dinosaurs, hence reptiles. Please don't say evolution doesn't occour at a macrocosmic level, thats an old story we have seen evolution in labs.

    EDIT: this just came in http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8273938.stm


    I am not doing to answer your stupid who created the universe argument again. Because i've beaten it to death, and it's lying there next to you in a pool of viscera and blood.

    As for the latter part of your entry, Islam was not the first piece of religous literature to claim that they successfully professed the big bang theory. Everybody from Plato in Timaeus to the Vedic scriptures have given some vague account of creation of the universe that some misguided people claim to be compatible with the Big Bang. The answer is no. There are alot of things that are out of place and a lot of details left out. It's just viscous bullshit. The Islamic version of the big bang is also a knock off of Plato's version.

    I think we should drop this discussion here. I don't want to antagonize you and my vacation is over I have to go back to school. So I won't have alot of free time on my hands. I thank you for your participation, it has been interesting. No hard feelings mate, Choa!
     
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    hafizsaad

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    Man you are talking in a way as you have only the real knowledge about creation and evolution.

    Islam was not the first piece of religous literature to claim that they successfully professed the big bang theory.

    it is for your attention religion of islam and Quran has told about these things in 400 century, nearly 1400 year before and your darwin theory and all scientific theory start after 650 . think who has professed.the sign of Quran are for those who are neutral in thinking, you can think, the quran has tells about these things and many other scientific things before the birth of modern science.

    i have given links below you can see if you want the truth about the darwin theory


    Books that demolish the theory of evolution

    Articles on Darwinist Deception


    THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION: A UNIQUE DECEPTION IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD

    THE CLAIM THAT "NATURAL SELECTION CAUSES EVOLUTION" IS A FRAUDULENT ONE

    QUANTUM PHYSICS: THE DISCOVERY THAT SCIENTIFICALLY DEMOLISHED MATERIALISM

    DAWKINS IS DESPERATELY TRYING TO DECEIVE YOUNG CHILDREN

    RICHARD DAWKINS' AND DAILY HURRIYET'S IGNORANCE

    TERRORISM, DARWINISM & MATERIALISM

    A FOSSIL DISCOVERED IN GEORGIA HAS ONCE AGAIN OVERTURNED DARWINIST MYTHS


    DARWINISTS' CLAIMS THAT DARWINISM'S SAYING 'WE COME FROM APES' IS AN OVERSIMPLIFICATION


    DARWINISTS ARE STILL TRYING TO DEPICT DEFUNCT DARWINISM AS SCIENTIFIC

    DARWINISTS ARE IN DISMAY!

    DARWINISTS' EFFORTS TO COVER UP LIVING FOSSILS IS FRAUDULENT

    DARWINISTS INSISTENTLY DO NOT LIKE THE IMAGINARY ANCESTOR OF HUMANS, WHICH THEY FABRICATED, TO BE CALLED “APE”

    WHAT DARWINISTS SAID, WHAT HAPPENED THEN

    DARWINISTS' CONFESSIONS ABOUT MUTATIONS AND THE WORDS OF SCIENTISTS


    THE FOSSIL RECORD REFUTES EVOLUTION

    ALL PHILOSOPHIES CONSTRUCTED ON THE BASIS OF MATTER IS COLLAPSED

    DARWINISM IS THE MAIN SOURCE OF RACISM

    FOSSILIZATION AND IRON CONTENT

    FIFTEEN PROOFS THAT DISPROVE DARWIN ON THE 200th ANNIVERSARY OF HIS BIRTH

    WHY DO DARWINISTS NOT GIVE UP?

    THE INVALIDITY OF THE CLAIM THAT NEW SPECIES EVOLVE EVERY YEAR

    THE INVALIDITY OF THE CLAIM THAT THE IDEA THAT WHALES EVOLVED FROM BEARS DID NOT ORIGINATE WITH DARWIN

    THE ORIGINS OF SUPERSTITIOUS RELIGION OF DARWINISM

    DARWINISM'S CONTRADICTION WITH RELIGION

    DARWINISM’S UNSCIENTIFIC FORMULA

    THE EVOLUTIONARY MYTH, FROM ANCIENT GREECE TO MODERN EUROPE

     

    Mononoke

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    What bull shit is this. I read the quantum mechanics article because I have a technical education in that field. The article rightly pointed out that quantum mechanics showed that QM destroyed the objective view of reality, scientist and philosophers had to adjust to this. And it also rightly said that in light of QM we need to develop a new metaphysical ontology. But then out of nowhere it says therefore, God must exist. This is funny because almost all of the people whom he quoted are atheists, agnostics, or Buddhists.

    The person who wrote this article shot himself in the foot the moment he said "
    objective world is an illusion". Quantum non locality ensures that there can be no independent objective reality. Thus there can be no supreme objective existence, God cannot exist in the QM reality. Furthermore, you cannot be omniscient or omnipotent in QM reality. Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle excluded that possibility.

    As for the rest of the articles, I am going to assume that they are similar festering piles of viscous pig shit.

     
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    hafizsaad

    Member
    Dec 17, 2008
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    [/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

    But then out of nowhere it says therefore, God must exist.

    Man you remain student not experienced teacher.you aim through criticism on articles is only to discourage other people so that they can't try to read these columns . to fulfill your this aim you was in so hurry that you have not even try to see what is heading of the article. that was

    QUANTUM PHYSICS: THE DISCOVERY THAT SCIENTIFICALLY DEMOLISHED MATERIALISM

    The article rightly pointed out that quantum mechanics showed that QM destroyed the objective view of reality, scientist and philosophers had to adjust to this. And it also rightly said that in light of QM we need to develop a new metaphysical ontology.The person who wrote this article shot himself in the foot the moment he said "objective world is an illusion". Quantum non locality ensures that there can be no independent objective reality. Thus there can be no supreme objective existence,


    The writer has given all the detail through which has sum up " quantum physicists say that the objective world is an illusion. Professor Hans-Peter Dürr, head of the Max Planck Institute of Physics, summarizes this fact:
    Whatever matter is, it is not made of matter.

    First read the whole column then comments in a rational way.

    This is funny because almost all of the people whom he quoted are atheists, agnostics, or Buddhists.

    :lol: wow. man What bull shit is this. you have so innocent and close mind you do not know even before reading the articles, person must have to see its heading. boy the writer is not proving the Holy Quran so that he may quote Muhammad (PBUH) and other muslim writers. the writer has given the quote of these people because their claim and theories are mostly accepted by modern world and also it is the need of the article.

    what the writer has concluded at the end depend upon the whole article. First read the whole detail and then comments on that detail either that was wrong....
     

    Mononoke

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    Sep 12, 2009
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    I am beginning to think you are stupid. None of those people say that god exists. All they are saying that the empirical reality can no longer viewed as objective. This means that matter and everything that goes with it has a subjective existence. If the universe is subjective then there can be no prime mover or a prime reference frame or an independent entity, almighty god according to your religion is independent absolute existence, such things are banned in QM. This is because God, or anything for that matter, cannot exist and act independently in QM, he exists tied within the subjective interconnected reference frame of everything else. There is no space for God in QM. The closest religious philosophy to quantum mechanics is the concept of Sunyata in Buddhism, were they reject the objective existence of reality.


    Oh the guy who hosts your near and dear website is a crook and a thug.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar#Legal_issues.2C_arrest.2C_trial.2C_and_sentencing

    No wonder he was spurting utter bullshit. I guess the adage 'look before you leap' applies fully here.

    Sayonara!
    Adnan_Oktar
     
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    hafizsaad

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    Dec 17, 2008
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    You are so non sense that i have told you in detail in last post about all your confustion on topic but you again write the same and insisting on same point.From these material only those people can take benefit who are neutral, rational and realistic in nature. you have not such a single quality therefore when you have defeated on the detail of the topic you have now try to disgrace the writer. the writer is one of best and rational oponents of those jews zoinism, worst atheism, and all other evil powers and he has open their reality in his articles and books in very authentic way therefore these power has always try to abuse him and arise several issue to disgrace his personality.these case had no reality itself therefore all the time he arrested and no case could be prove on him.
    If you want to read the real biography see the link below in which all detail about his cases also discuss


    BIOGRAPHY, LIFE AND WORKS OF ADNAN OKTAR


    I will not reply more as you are just wasting time.I think we should drop this discussion here. I won't have alot of free time on my hands. I thank you for your participation, it has been interesting. No hard feelings mate, Choa...!


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