Prophet Muhammad and child marriages

[Wal Bada]

this must be stopped!! where its happening????? can u show some with proof and also whats the percentage??????? may be there are some cases in middle east but dont think its common in our religion even if any 1 doing it its because of their lack of knowledge about islam.so there are same incidents among non muslims as well like in india and bangeladesh..so do u mean to say that also because of prophet muhammed (s.a.w).

Where are you living? on planet Mars? You should visit a Obstetrics ward in Amparai / Kalmunai / Tinco hospital to see the number of sub - 18 muslim mothers giving birth to children. Some are as young as 15! Child marriages are still there in SL, and exclusively seen in Muslim and Up country tamil communities,

 

[njsa]

Don't misinterpret things. Buddha did not marry. It was prince Siddhartha who married a 16 year old (not a child by today's standards). And prince Siddhartha was also 16, not 50 like Muhammed. If Muhammed had married Aisha before he became the prophet (or before he heard from the God), we would not have argued much about it, because he'd be a lay person by then. Same with prince Siddhartha, who was a lay person until he was 29, then became Buddha at 35 after enlightenment, or attaining Buddhahood. Buddhists follow Buddha, not prince Sidhdhartha. You are engaged on intellectual dishonesty when you say Buddha married at 16.

prince siddarthe and buddah are same person or what????
still its 16 is not consider as an adult in srilanka. i think ur a a citizen of sl,if from any other country there are different ages as which suits to their opinions and culture.
he married her so what....she was matured enough to get marry.they had a wonderful married life and her parents were happy with it.i dont know why u have to bother about it.it was ok for that time and many time mentioned about the purpose of marriage in this thread.i think u better read!!

 

[njsa]

Where are you living? on planet Mars? You should visit a Obstetrics ward in Amparai / Kalmunai / Tinco hospital to see the number of sub - 18 muslim mothers giving birth to children. Some are as young as 15! Child marriages are still there in SL, and exclusively seen in Muslim and Up country tamil communities,

dont just tell.i told u that there ,ay be some issues but can u be truthful and give me a honest reply....do only muslims marry in that age...isnt there any cases among Sinhalese Tamils or Christians!!! u just highlighting the same thing again and again...
and i dont know any one i know who married at age 9-17.so what is the percentage of child marriage and birth in srilanka.u know in many countries parents give them birthcontrol pills at the age of 12.that means giving licence for them to have ...!!but scared of pregnant.so getting marry at any age and having a respect life is bodering u but u dont care if girls just going and getting rape with everyboy everyday!!!!

 

[Wal Bada]

prince siddarthe and buddah are same person or what????
still its 16 is not consider as an adult in srilanka. i think ur a a citizen of sl,if from any other country there are different ages as which suits to their opinions and culture.
he married her so what....she was matured enough to get marry.they had a wonderful married life and her parents were happy with it.i dont know why u have to bother about it.it was ok for that time and many time mentioned about the purpose of marriage in this thread.i think u better read!!

Buddha and Prince Siddhartha are same but the similarity was physically. The similarity ends there. When a person becomes Buddha (or a prophet) his thinking pattern changes and becomes a new person. All the thinking pattern or longings to physical entities ends when a person becomes Buddha. Buddha actually has told that Siddhartha died when he enlightened, and himself is a different person now.

Age of 16 is regarded as the age for consent for sexual relationships in SL, and please get your facts right.

It's no where close to what a "prophet" aged 50 did by marrying a 6 year old. If Muhammed had done it before becoming a prophet, yes, it would not be talked so much, because he must have changed after he heard from God. But he did it while being the "prophet". The difference lies there!

 

[Wal Bada]

dont just tell.i told u that there ,ay be some issues but can u be truthful and give me a honest reply....do only muslims marry in that age...isnt there any cases among Sinhalese Tamils or Christians!!! u just highlighting the same thing again and again...

You are speaking rubbish. Child marriages in recent times seen exclusively among Muslims, and Tamils of Indian descent (or hill country) (READ MY LIPS!!). It's a fact. Child marriages among Sinhalese and Tamils of north is virtually unheard of in recent times.

and i dont know any one i know who married at age 9-17.so what is the percentage of child marriage and birth in srilanka

Yes, of course, because you are not allowed to enter obstetrics wards and examine the admission registers, while I could do easily. The percentage of child marriages I cannot give because it is not my field. But I can certainly give the percentage of pregnant mothers of 16 and less. That will give a fair idea of the percentage of child marriages

.u know in many countries parents give them birthcontrol pills at the age of 12.that means giving licence for them to have ...!!but scared of pregnant.so getting marry at any age and having a respect life is bodering u but u dont care if girls just going and getting rape with everyboy everyday!!!!

Now don't be ridiculous. The laws are there to protect children because they cannot decide. Giving birth control pills is for damage control. The better would be that males should refrain from having sex with any girl who is underage. Getting married in childhood is not respectful at all. Because the child has not decided that she / he should be married. It's respectful if the can decide only, not any one else.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Buddha and Prince Siddhartha are same but the similarity was physically. The similarity ends there. When a person becomes Buddha (or a prophet) his thinking pattern changes and becomes a new person. All the thinking pattern or longings to physical entities ends when a person becomes Buddha. Buddha actually has told that Siddhartha died when he enlightened, and himself is a different person now.

Age of 16 is regarded as the age for consent for sexual relationships in SL, and please get your facts right.

It's no where close to what a "prophet" aged 50 did by marrying a 6 year old. If Muhammed had done it before becoming a prophet, yes, it would not be talked so much, because he must have changed after he heard from God. But he did it while being the "prophet". The difference lies there!

Dear walbada,

As far as I know arguing the both Mohammed and Buddha marriage age is useless as we dont know the custom centuries back. It is influenced by manythings which we don't know.

and as u told 16 is wrong, Minimum age for marriage in SL is 18.except muslims.refer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age

Why prophet married the Aisha, My self & ancient glory debated just sometimes back (mayb u can go back 2pages) please read it.

 

[njsa]

Buddha and Prince Siddhartha are same but the similarity was physically. The similarity ends there. When a person becomes Buddha (or a prophet) his thinking pattern changes and becomes a new person. All the thinking pattern or longings to physical entities ends when a person becomes Buddha. Buddha actually has told that Siddhartha died when he enlightened, and himself is a different person not

what ever it is my point is that there were marriages happened in that time same as mentioned that mother mary gave birth to jesus at the age of 12. so it was not a matter in that time.

Age of 16 is regarded as the age for consent for sexual relationships in SL, and please get your facts right.

this is what i found in wikipedia.may be changed it recently and it will reduce it to 11-12 too.who knows...
Sri Lanka: 18. However, Muslims can be excluded from this regulation because the Muslim Marriage and Divorce Act of 1951 states that a girl must be 12 years of age or have a Quazi's permission to marry before contracting into marriage. This is applicable only for Muslims in Sri Lanka.[32]

It's no where close to what a "prophet" aged 50 did by marrying a 6 year old. If Muhammed had done it before becoming a prophet, yes, it would not be talked so much, because he must have changed after he heard from God. But he did it while being the "prophet". The difference lies there!

yes coz it happened during that time.and she was matured enough.also from start to now just everyone mentioning her age as 6,9,12. there is a doubt in her age as there is no any exact age mentioned in our history. anyway i could be 9 or 11 or even 16.no one sure about this.i mentioned many reason why he married her after becoming a prophet.
* Aaisha (R.A),being so young,was able to tell those details to the muslims for more than 42 years.she had seen and learned so much from him.her young age was a great advantage in that respect.

* She absorbed vast religious knowledge from the Prophet (peace be upon him) – including memorizing the entire Qur'an – and was witness to much of the early history of Islam. She helped preserve the details of those events, as well as the details of the private and public life of Muhammad (peace be upon him), by narrating more than two thousand hadith.

* father of mother aysha abubakr(r.a) and prophet muhammed sallalahu alihi wasallam are close friends.so he married her to remove the misconception that two close friends consider as brothers and marrying a friends daughter consider as a sin.

 

[njsa]

Wal Bada;7297903]You are speaking rubbish. Child marriages in recent times seen exclusively among Muslims, and Tamils of Indian descent (or hill country) (READ MY LIPS!!). It's a fact. Child marriages among Sinhalese and Tamils of north is virtually unheard of in recent times.

Yes, of course, because you are not allowed to enter obstetrics wards and examine the admission registers, while I could do easily. The percentage of child marriages I cannot give because it is not my field. But I can certainly give the percentage of pregnant mothers of 16 and less. That will give a fair idea of the percentage of child marriages

i never told that there is no any child marriages but its not high as how u trying to show.and not only muslims in this situation.many area which u mentioned mainly happening is becoz of the poverty.so we should educate them.u can go to other rural areas and see about other national child marriage.dont stick to eastern province always.

Now don't be ridiculous. The laws are there to protect children because they cannot decide. Giving birth control pills is for damage control. The better would be that males should refrain from having sex with any girl who is underage.

useless talking to u as there are many cases repoted regard this even there are 5 year old girls who gave birth.

 

[I love Srilanka]

You are speaking rubbish. Child marriages in recent times seen exclusively among Muslims, and Tamils of Indian descent (or hill country) (READ MY LIPS!!). It's a fact. Child marriages among Sinhalese and Tamils of north is virtually unheard of in recent times.

Walbada,

Neither I know nor have any proof to prove as to who have highest number of child marriages. but i guess it may be almost same among the all religions.unless u have some past data's, don't say that muslims and tamils r high. if actually muslims child marriage are high, it can be due to that minimum age for Muslims are not prescribed by Govt...moreover if some one getting married at the age of 15,16 also, no harm in that. it cant be called as child marriage as long as the person who reached puberty

Yes, of course, because you are not allowed to enter obstetrics wards and examine the admission registers, while I could do easily. The percentage of child marriages I cannot give because it is not my field. But I can certainly give the percentage of pregnant mothers of 16 and less. That will give a fair idea of the percentage of child marriages

again if u have please datas put it


Now don't be ridiculous. The laws are there to protect children because they cannot decide. Giving birth control pills is for damage control. The better would be that males should refrain from having sex with any girl who is underage. Getting married in childhood is not respectful at all. Because the child has not decided that she / he should be married. It's respectful if the can decide only, not any one else.

I differ with you in this. see getting married is respectful than being involved in adultery activities. specially in this current world parents are suffering to raise their teenage children in decent way. parents are under so much of stress till they get married.if u keep on postponing their marriage, they may do anything , any time , it can give very much bad image to family and even to total generation as well.there are some occasion even parents committed suicide due to the their children's wrong doing, specially girls. among muslims and hindus community their culture is such that a girls wrong doing is so much serious than sinhalese community.that can be the reason for early marriage if actually their rate is more.

 

[AncientGlory]

Lets try this one more time.

I dont think I dont understand.but You dont understand.If Prophet is role model why don't we follow marrying the widow as well.it is good for the society.come on man ! how can it be child marriages bec of prophet, even if i agree for sake of argument, why peoples are not following Prophet's other character and his doing as well. why only in child marriage??..I feel if everyone can follow prophet mohammed as role model in the right manner there won't b any problem in this current world.

This answer itself contains the ugly truth, that I wanted to talk about. It is not really people following Muhammad's and Allah's example but they use it to justify some of their actions like child marriages. If people follow them in right manner there won't be any problems, but they do not follow them in the right manner.

Why I called you as anti islamist I clearly mentioned you in my previous reply.I dont want to repeat here again..

You calling me anti-Islamic is just fine by me. I understand it is a defense mechanism.

Im not clear about your Question Do u live in this world?

You said "We dont do that". I was curious what do you mean by 'we' here. If you were referring to muslims, I was amazed because I know in some countries muslims do that. So I was like, "Do you live in the same world as me??"

Dear, we have already studied. we started our Quran study at the age of six and we know what is mentioned there.

So? Did anyone say you do not? What's your point?

you keep on saying without a logic we follow islam it is not true.

Yeah, I keep saying that. Because worshiping an unknown being of whom you have no proof of existence seems illogical to me. But I do not have a problem with it, as long as its not a threat to humanity.

it may be applicable for u brothers as you people never touch even you scriptures apart from going to temple once in while.

So?? What's this got to do with me? Let me guess you are assuming that I'm a Buddhist right?? I do not blame you, your limited mind frame is adjusted from the age of six to assume that no man is capable of living without a religion.

ask your budhist average person have he ever seen Buddhist scriptures,

What is the relevance to this thread???

I doubt he would have even seen the scriptures.and more over you go back to your scriptures & translate your scriptures in language that your people know well.I feel lack of translation and not reaching the average people make them lack of understanding the buddhism.

And?? Your point??

My request to you, that you also learn the buddhism & interpret in the right way and come to conclusion what logic it has and later

Thank you for your request, but I have no interest in interpreting buddhism right way or whatever. Again what is the relevance to the topic????

on you can do same in Quran as well. which will give correct understanding as to what scriptures is logic.

Ok. But at the moment since I do not know Arabic and since I do not have time to learn Arabic I'm gonna go with English translations.

Then you dont send your children to school to study I assume they r capable of thinking themselves.

Yes. Everyone's capable of thinking for themselves. Even uneducated people. Education and free thinking does not mean the same thing. We do not send children to school to teach how to think. Or maybe you do in Islam. I did not know that. The two will have a common ground when people teach others free thinking is a sin, like you do in Islam. Doubting the existence of your GOD is a sin.

see anyother way is what...see God writing will never b equal to humans writing book.that is why we always seek for Quran.

If you wanna talk about the challenge in quran, I more than happy to do so. But in another thread.

I reiterated you that, Question can be asked on anything , bt i doubt your intension as you don't want to understand even single point of us.and keep on repeating same question by different ways.

My friend, doubt my intentions by all means. Does my intentions really have anything to do with you talking about Islam? Just tell us what you think and what you know, if you feel like it. Do not hold any value in my intentions.

Waht u mean by I always Seeking for truth.

Understanding the Univrse, the world and why things are the way they are. I am seeking this truth.

..U meant to say that you are looking for truth from other religion as well.

Of course, all the religions play a part in this world.

then you are not confident abt ur scriptures??

Again, What scriptures?? I do not have any scriptures.

if no..what is your intension of your Questions on Prophet life and Islam???

Understanding truth.

Summary-
Your replies are same as your earlier question. My answers are neither accepted nor rejected by you based on the correct logic.but simply as per u, I am not understanding ,and you say it is simple fact(what fact???) that child abuse just bec prophet without any reason and proof.I Hope you don't have anything to say so you again wanted to stick with same question as your counter answers which is not at all impressed me.

I agree with you. In my last post I did not address your previous reply directly. I was having doubts whether I should continue to discuss with you or not, because I too felt that we are going in circles. And this summary confirms that because after explaining it so many times yet again, you say here that I accuse prophet of child abuse. Clearly you do not see the topic of the thread.

If I have made any sense to you in this reply maybe we can continue. If not let's just agree to disagree.

 

[AncientGlory]

I would like to answer to your some question which was posted to njsa.

Good.

(1) It seems that in some Muslim countries child marriages are carried out today.(This is done in non muslim countries also. But I'm talking about muslim countries. That is what this thread is about.)

If a child marriage is exist in Non islamic countries then why cant it exist in muslim countries??.it is obviously shows us it is NOT based on the religion but culture.

Again it is not a question of why it cannot. It is a question of how and why Islam promotes such things. It does not obviously show us it is NOT based on religion. It shows in some countries its based on culture not religion. For the second time we are discussing about how it is religious based in ISLAM. You saying how it is done in another culture, has nothing to do with the thread. One cannot justify something bad because its done in another country or other religion or other culture.

(2) These child marriages in some cases, result in rape(According to todays laws), death (Both because of the bleeding from sex, and in child birth). There are plenty of news on this in the internet if you research.

As I told earlier, Mayb earlier time physical nature of the girls would have been far better than now. only according to the todays law it is prohibited.

I'm talking about modern time here. Not about those days.

(3) The Islamic leaders in some of these countries claim that Muhammad is their role model and since he married Aisha at the age of 6 it is ok to even marry a 1 year old girl.

I dont Know which Islamic leader you r referring to..I never heard abt that.Do u talk about the video posted by ex muslim ahmed.I have not seen yet coz normally I dont see his threads as his post are lies and manipulation.anyway Let me check and come back to u later.

yes I am talking about that video and some other videos and links I found. Good, check out that video. It is really interesting.

Q1: What is your opinion of this? Is marrying a child(legally not an adult) ok today??

As per today it may not be right and should be avoided.

So you agree with me.

but still it depends on the countries. a European 10 year girl will looks like a 20year SL girl.

If you agree, what's with the 'but'??? Make up your mind. Is it "OK" or "Not OK"?

Q2: Why did Muhammad being a prophet of Allah, carry out such an act, knowing its bad effects in the future society?

It is already replied by me and I think even njsa replied u..

OK

Q3: For a non believer(Also for a believer if he dares to think for himself) does this not bring questions about the morality of Muhammad's actions? Does this not raise the question "Can such a person really be a prophet of GOD?"
[/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

Absolutely no.maybe u know only this action abt prophet muhammed.read abt Prophet mohammed life inshaallah you won't put a same question again..

One action defines a person. No need to read a life story. A person may do life time of good dreads. But he commit rape one time, he is always a rapist.(Not talking about prophet Muhammad)

I hope you know Prophet, Muhammad, is ranked one the most influential people in history in a book by Michael H. Hart.

I did not know this, but after you mentioned this I did some research. You are right. The book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History by Michael Hart does contain Muhammad's name. And frankly I do not see anything strange about it. Muhammad was a very influential person. But the question is does influence define him as a good person? You will be interested to know that in the same list Hart has also placed Adolf Hitler.

 

[AncientGlory]

.
what your thinking is totally wrong.i never want to attack buddhism as i respect buddah as how i respect the great people like jesus,ghandhi...ect. i was trying to show u that it has happened past but no one highlighting it but y only about islam.so im not a hypocrite but clearly u r.i dont know ur a buddhist or not but see my reply agein.i mentioned that even mother mary gave at the age of 12.(i mean all who bringing this up)

First please explain to me how I am a hypocrite?

Then If you want to highlight something happened in the past by all means do so. Jesus or Buddha or Krishna or whatever. I have no problem with that. I'm just highlighting one incident that interests me. You babbling and complaining about it does not make me a hypocrite.

And you are damn right when you say you do not know whether I'm a Buddhist or not. YOU DO NOT.

And no one has said you are a hypocrite. Maybe in your mind you assume that you are a hypocrite, but no need to share it in public.

yes,there are some cases

Thank you for accepting this truth.

but its not even 1 percent u know.

No I do not know that. Are you speaking of 1% of marriages in Islam or 1% of marriages in the countries that carry out child marriages??

if anything take place it will come in bbc so the world thinks that this is common in these country which is not.

Maybe.

but there are cases taking place among other religious followers of in other countries is nothing for them.

So? Are you saying its ok in Islam because it is done in other religions as well? What is your point?

prophets marriage is not to show that all should marry a nne year old but to show that we can marry our best friends daughter.

This is just your opinion. This is how you see it. Some people see it differently. Try telling this to the yeman girl who recently died because of the bleeding from sexual penetration.

as i mentioned earlier it considered as a sin.also her marriage bought many good things to islam.Her scholarly contributions to Islam, as well as her pious example, have earned her special status among the “Mothers of the Believers,”

So? What's your point? Because her marriage brought many things to Islam, people should go around marrying children??

yes...marring a person who is not matured enough is not correct.

Thank you. This is honesty and free thinking. Respect.

yes...some do.but its because of their lack of knowledge or poverty.some used to engage their daughters early when they dont have enough wealth to take care of them.so they so this as a solution.[/B][/SIZE]

Fair enough. So do you agree that they commit this wrongful act and try to justify it in the name of religion???

i am not agree.its wrong marring a child who is not matured enough.

Respect.

we dont support it and its not the way of islam.

What do you mean by 'we'? Muslims in the world? Muslims in SL? Your family? Or you??

i told the reasons many times,so i hope i dont have to repeat it.
his intention was not to encourage child marriages.but some took it in the wrong way.in our country 18 consider as adult and in some countries its 16.so like that its up the person and the culture.in some western countries at the age of 12 they give their daughters birth control pills.so they are not avoiding but protecting from pregnancy.

You are missing the point here. Let me try to rephrase it again.

His intention was not to encourage child marriages. - I agree

But disregard what his intentions were his actions have encouraged or given a way to justify child marriages today - Do you agree??

Prophet of the GOD, knowing the future should have seen this? - Do you agree?

Therefore he should not have done it. - Do you agree??

in ur mind u keep limitations as the god should be like this...a prophet should be like this..a mother should be like this.so if anything go against ur imagination u think how can this be a god!!or a prophet!!

This is very true. Spoken with true logic. You are correct. So let me explain where I am coming from and why this interests me.

Theists define this deity who is omnipotent, omnimscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent, The omnimax GOD. You define it, or you know he is there. I do not define anything of GOD or do not expect him to be anything, because I know he is not there. you define his qualities and from your definitions I get the idea and I get the contradictions. Still whatever you believe in or do is totally fine by me and I hold no interest. But when your beliefs and practices go so blind, that you commit crimes against human kind(Such as child abuses), then I have a problem with that. Then I will talk with you, bringing up those contradictions, in your definition of GOD, your prophet, from your stories, trying to bring some sense to you. If a person dares to cross the line between free thinking and blind faith and think for one moment to decide, what I should do to get close to my GOD, and what I should not do, even though they are taught to me from the age of 6, I'm giving that person few things to think about.

u want a nice god who forgive everything...a nice prophet who tell only sweet things but not talk about hell fire or the practical way.everything should be as easy as සීනිබෝල.

Nope, I do not want a GOD. I know he is not real. It is you who want him. I thought GOD is merciful and he loves his children. I got that from your definitions. Am I wrong?

I thought GOD forgives everything done under his name, even if it means genocides, Holy war, child abuses etc. Am I wrong?

why he cant be the prophet of god????/is it because he married aysha (r.a) with her parents permission.

No because a prophet from GOD would never let his actions cause suffering to thousands of others in future.

yes..its like same how our people (its not even 1 percent)doing child marriage who is not matured enough which is wrong.

The two things are not similar. But both are wrong.

yes but very few of them are doing it so u cant blame the whole muslims or the community for this.its true that their are news about it but they just highlighting these incidents u know.

True, you cannot blame entire Muslim community for this. That's why I blame prophet Muhammad, who unintentionally let this happen in the first place, when he knew(Knowing the future) this is gonna happen.

I blame muslims, who are against this for not doing anything about it. If you feel your brothers are doing something wrong, do something about it. You are the best people to do that, without making it look like some kind or a religious war.

when anything happen like this in other religion its just nothing.si this is not a religious issue but a social issue.

You are kidding right? If a crime happens in any religion its a crime. The thing is crimes are more common in Islam, so naturally people talk more about it. If you wanna discuss any crimes done in other religions, please bring them forward in another thread. Lets discuss them.

The issue is social in some countries(Ex. India). Issue is religious in some countries (Ex. Yeman). And its difficult to define a boundary between social issue and religious issue. Religion is a basis for social practices.

so its relevent to the topic.!!

Again, incidents done in other cultures and religions are not relevant to the topic.

yes i learned about it in that way.and taught us that he left her with kids after knowing that she was a devil lately he bought a new queen baddekatchana from india.

future can be changed but how its possible" HISTORY WILL ALWAYS CHANGE!!"
its true that some can because of scientific evidence but our history is always changing every-time when the syllabus is changing.

yes and its not his mistake as well.thats what his teachers taught them. yes i always think myself and understood that its impossible in my grade 9 class and felt that its damn funny they teaching it.

Good points and true.

 

[AncientGlory]

Don't misinterpret things. Buddha did not marry. It was prince Siddhartha who married a 16 year old (not a child by today's standards). And prince Siddhartha was also 16, not 50 like Muhammed. If Muhammed had married Aisha before he became the prophet (or before he heard from the God), we would not have argued much about it, because he'd be a lay person by then. Same with prince Siddhartha, who was a lay person until he was 29, then became Buddha at 35 after enlightenment, or attaining Buddhahood. Buddhists follow Buddha, not prince Sidhdhartha. You are engaged on intellectual dishonesty when you say Buddha married at 16.

Hmm, an interesting point. And true. I take back what I said.

By today's laws buddha has committed rape.

Buddha obviously did no such thing.

 

[AncientGlory]

Where are you living? on planet Mars? You should visit a Obstetrics ward in Amparai / Kalmunai / Tinco hospital to see the number of sub - 18 muslim mothers giving birth to children. Some are as young as 15! Child marriages are still there in SL, and exclusively seen in Muslim and Up country tamil communities,

Coming from a doctor, seems like these are authentic facts. Thank you for bringing this up.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Good.


Again it is not a question of why it cannot. It is a question of how and why Islam promotes such things. It does not obviously show us it is NOT based on religion. It shows in some countries its based on culture not religion. For the second time we are discussing about how it is religious based in ISLAM. You saying how it is done in another culture, has nothing to do with the thread. One cannot justify something bad because its done in another country or other religion or other culture.

My friend, We are comparing here country or culture to another, obviously it is about human beings comparison, we r not comparing here Human to animal to say that it cant be compared.and can be justified with that as human being r same in nature.obviously it is based on the culture as well, if it is based on the religion why people r not following other things which prophet did.I have already mentioned abt that in my past replies.

I'm talking about modern time here. Not about those days.

I thought You are talking about those days as our subject was abt prophet mohammed and marriage of aisha. so you accept modern time custom different from those time.Well..Good.!


yes I am talking about that video and some other videos and links I found. Good, check out that video. It is really interesting.

Still I have not seen, I will see soon.

So you agree with me.


I agree with you provided girl should have reached the puberty. i dont mind it whether she is 18,16,9 or even 6. i dont know in this case how do u define the child??


If you agree, what's with the 'but'??? Make up your mind. Is it "OK" or "Not OK"?

I hope you r clear abt my point based on the above reply.

OK



One action defines a person. No need to read a life story. A person may do life time of good dreads. But he commit rape one time, he is always a rapist.(Not talking about prophet Muhammad)

of course your example very much interested to read but doesn't make sense.in your ex..I Think, enemies of that person labeling as "rapist'. please check it up and exact proof as a life time good deeds doer, could have not raped in one day. probabilities are very less.it is lack of proof and people don't want to accept that person.


I did not know this, but after you mentioned this I did some research. You are right. The book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History by Michael Hart does contain Muhammad's name. And frankly I do not see anything strange about it. Muhammad was a very influential person. But the question is does influence define him as a good person? You will be interested to know that in the same list Hart has also placed Adolf Hitler.

I know Hitler also ranked 39.I so much wonder he is so much behind though he is having the record of highest ever killer in the world. Still he couldn't defeat the Prophet Muhammad.which gives me an idea how Prophet Mohammed was.and how much good activities prophet should have done to come over to reach 1st place.Mashaallah!!.
Even for sake of argument if v agree Prophet mohammed was a child molestor, still ahead of Buddha, Jesus..which shows you Prophet muhammed is the Greatest person that world ever provided.(I don't mind you accept or not) Don't you agree with with Mr.Hart?? you will never......na..!

 

[AncientGlory]

My friend, We are comparing here country or culture to another, obviously it is about human beings comparison, we r not comparing here Human to animal to say that it cant be compared.and can be justified with that as human being r same in nature.obviously it is based on the culture as well, if it is based on the religion why people r not following other things which prophet did.I have already mentioned abt that in my past replies.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. I already agreed that in some countries child marriages are done because of cultural reasons.
But I also think that in some Muslim countries this is promoted/ excused based on the religion. And I clearly said that I'm not interested in THIS THREAD to talk about those cultural reasons. I'm here to talk about how child marriages are done in ISLAM. I think I'm clear on that. Bringing things from other cultures/religions are not relevant to this topic.

Or are you trying to make the point that, child marriages are normal in some countries, cultures, religions so what's wrong with doing it in Islam?

I thought You are talking about those days as our subject was abt prophet mohammed and marriage of aisha. so you accept modern time custom different from those time.Well..Good.!

Seems like you have not read my previous posts. You just jumped in the middle and assumed I'm an ANTI-ISLAMIC (Which I do not mind now, after seeing this thread. http://www.elakiri.com/forum/showthread.php?t=627000 ) and assumed many other things I see. I have repeatedly said times are different, hence customs can be different.

I agree with you provided girl should have reached the puberty. i dont mind it whether she is 18,16,9 or even 6. i dont know in this case how do u define the child??

My question contains my definition of a child.

Q1: What is your opinion of this? Is marrying a child(legally not an adult) ok today??

And based on your reply, it seems to me that you are ok with having sex with a person disregard of her age, if she reached puberty. So I'm gonna take your opinion on question as "OK".

of course your example very much interested to read but doesn't make sense.in your ex..I Think, enemies of that person labeling as "rapist'. please check it up and exact proof as a life time good deeds doer, could have not raped in one day. probabilities are very less.it is lack of proof and people don't want to accept that person

For the nth time, I'm not talking about the prophet Muhammad. I'm talking about a general case to explain, that one wrong deed will define a person, In general. My example makes perfect sense, if you try to understand my motive here is not to accuse your prophet Muhammad.

I know Hitler also ranked 39.I so much wonder he is so much behind though he is having the record of highest ever killer in the world. Still he couldn't defeat the Prophet Muhammad.which gives me an idea how Prophet Mohammed was.and how much good activities prophet should have done to come over to reach 1st place.Mashaallah!!.
Even for sake of argument if v agree Prophet mohammed was a child molestor, still ahead of Buddha, Jesus..which shows you Prophet muhammed is the Greatest person that world ever provided.(I don't mind you accept or not) Don't you agree with with Mr.Hart?? you will never......na..!

Yes Harts list gives an idea to you and also to me about prophet Muhammad. Muhammad being the number one clearly says something. Muhammad is one of the most influential persons in history. I do not deny this, It is a simple fact. And unlike you I do not need to look at someones list to understand that. His followers today is a proof of his influence.

It amuses me to see that you see being top in the list is some kind of a game, and to see your thrill of finding Hitler was not able to defeat muhammad.

I would also like to point out that book represents Hart's idea. There are other people who talk about the same subject. Majority of such Ideologists, and institutions say Jesus Christ was the most influential man in the History.

However this is not of importance. Like I said Hitler is also in Harts book, and his rank has no significance to the point. Does influence mean Good?? Not necessarily. Ex: Hitler is also in the list

 

[AncientGlory]

Also when you have time, I'd like to see your comments on this post, which you missed. Thanks.

http://www.elakiri.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7302607&postcount=150

 

[I love Srilanka]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. I already agreed that in some countries child marriages are done because of cultural reasons.
But I also think that in some Muslim countries this is promoted/ excused based on the religion. And I clearly said that I'm not interested in THIS THREAD to talk about those cultural reasons. I'm here to talk about how child marriages are done in ISLAM. I think I'm clear on that. Bringing things from other cultures/religions are not relevant to this topic.

OK.I assume everything irrelevant..
Muslim countries never promote this, but excuse can be correct. but no body marry before puberty.

Or are you trying to make the point that, child marriages are normal in some countries, cultures, religions so what's wrong with doing it in Islam?

Yes Im trying make it is normal everywhere, no body do in the name of Islam.but there are some just for sake of doing they misuse Islam name.otherwsie it exists Islam & Non Islamic countries both. It is not monopoly for Islam country.


Seems like you have not read my previous posts. You just jumped in the middle and assumed I'm an ANTI-ISLAMIC (Which I do not mind now, after seeing this thread. http://www.elakiri.com/forum/showthread.php?t=627000 ) and assumed many other things I see. I have repeatedly said times are different, hence customs can be different.

if u accept so, what is the problem for u now. then no point in arguing abt Prophet marriage.



My question contains my definition of a child.

Can I know in One line what is your definition of Child..

And based on your reply, it seems to me that you are ok with having sex with a person disregard of her age, if she reached puberty. So I'm gonna take your opinion on question as "OK".

YES..

For the nth time, I'm not talking about the prophet Muhammad. I'm talking about a general case to explain, that one wrong deed will define a person, In general. My example makes perfect sense, if you try to understand my motive here is not to accuse your prophet Muhammad.

Very Good...




Yes Harts list gives an idea to you and also to me about prophet Muhammad. Muhammad being the number one clearly says something. Muhammad is one of the most influential persons in history. I do not deny this, It is a simple fact. And unlike you I do not need to look at someones list to understand that. His followers today is a proof of his influence.

Yeah it is simple fact!!Thanks...

It amuses me to see that you see being top in the list is some kind of a game, and to see your thrill of finding Hitler was not able to defeat muhammad.

I would also like to point out that book represents Hart's idea. There are other people who talk about the same subject. Majority of such Ideologists, and institutions say Jesus Christ was the most influential man in the History.

That is because maybe all the writers are under pressure from christian missionary to put Jesus christ No1. and also the person who write himself is christian..Don't u wonder Hart being a christian he ranked mohammed as one?

and why Mohammed was ranked one & not Jesus see the points.

01-Christianity (1.9+ billion people). 600 year head start on Islam
02-Islam (1.5+ billion people). Catching up at a rate of 10:1. Many of the converts are Atheists or Christians (including many Church leaders and ministers). By 2025 Muslims will out number Christians.
03-In America pre 9/11 40000+ people convert to Islam per year, post 9/11, people have became curious about what makes Muslims tick. They are now discovering that what Muslims like these do are completely in the opposite direction to the teachings of Muhammad and Islam, hence why the number of converts has increased to 78000+ a year.
04-Jesus' message was 2.4 years, Muhammad's 23 years
05-Jesus' had 120 followers at the end of his time on earth Muhammad had millions
06-Muhammad confirmed Jesus and believed in him, as Jesus said to his disciples whilst in the Garden of Gethsemane that someone would come to confirm him
07-Jesus said he came to the tribe of Israel only, Muhammad said he came to all mankind.
08-The different denominations of Christianity don't agree with each other about Mary, Jesus, the trinity, the many versions and revisions of the Bible etc, whereas the different denominations of Islam agree that Muhammad is the final Prophet, Jesus is a Prophet and performed miracles, God is One and Only, and the exact Quran as at the time of Muhammad is still used today by all the denominations, and the originals are still available.
9-10's of millions of Muslims have memorised the entire Quran all over the world, whereas no Christian has memorised the bible and if they did they would have to memorise their own version and would have to update their memorisations every time a new revision was released.
10-The bible that we know today was written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John (who are they? Real name? Last name?) and Paul (Saul of Tarsus: A Christian Killer) who preached to the Gentiles which Jesus said not to do. None where direct disciples of Jesus.
11-What is known as Apocrypha today is the Gospels that the Roman (Origin Pagans: worshiped many gods, human gods etc) Catholic Church wanted to destroy because it denies the trinity and the divinity of Jesus and reveals the coming of another (Muhammad). "Eg. The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 C.E. In 325 C.E., the Nicene Council was held, where it was ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script should be destroyed. An Edict was issued that any one in possession of these Gospels will be put to death" (http://www.barnabas.net/)
12-Jesus did not found Christianity and the Church (Paul did). Muhammad founded Islam.
13-Muhammad taught a way of life from birth to death. Things as simple as one should sit down when they put their shoes on etc (This has been medically proven that putting your shoes on whilst standing and hunching causes lower back pain). He taught every day life issues etc.
14-The Quran contains many scientific information that has been confirmed by science only in the last century. Would Muhammad have known all this stuff or is he a lucky guesser?
15-The world as we know it today was influenced by Islam, scientifically, mathematically, medically, agriculturally as well as through art etc. Islam promoted education for both men and women whereas the Church forbade it and called it blasphemy and the penalty was death to anyone who would go against the Church (http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/ a documentary by non-Muslim American historians and lecturers in religion)
16-Islam is in no way derived from Zoroastrianism but follows on from Judaism as Christianity did.

However this is not of importance. Like I said Hitler is also in Harts book, and his rank has no significance to the point. Does influence mean Good?? Not necessarily. Ex: Hitler is also in the list


Not necessarily good and it is influenced by Good doing also.but as far as prophet concerned I dont see any bad deeds

 

[AncientGlory]

but excuse can be correct. but no body marry before puberty.

You are not clear. Are you saying marrying a child is excusable? Are you saying that nobody marries children before they reach puberty?

but there are some just for sake of doing they misuse Islam name.

Excellent. Now you agree that people do these things just because of their barbaric nature and they misuse the Islam name to justify it.

if u accept so, what is the problem for u now. then no point in arguing abt Prophet marriage.

Why not? I'm not arguing about the morality of his actions by those days standards, I'm arguing about how those actions set a bad example for today's society. Being a prophet he should have known better.If you do not agree with that, we can argue, So again Why not?? It seems like after reading all these posts, you still do not understand the point I'm trying to make.

Can I know in One line what is your definition of Child..

A person who is legally not an adult.

YES..

Good. Now where you stand is clear. Your view is different of njsa. To be frank I find his view honest and moral, coz only a sick person can say having sex with a child is ok, disregard she has reached puberty or not. No offense but I find such people disgusting and mentally retarded.

Read the following, Maybe you will find some sense in it.

biologically adult kenek wenne kawadada?

After they get passed Tanner Stage 5 of Breast and Pubic Hair development. That is 16 - 18 years.

Now don't try to play fool. The abov e definition is what is accepted in Medical Sciences as completion of the puberty. If you have any thing to say back it up with cold hard facts.

And FFS, answer what is asked from you. Unless you won't get further answers from me, but constant questions.

this is the islamic definition of end of childhood or become adult
person who has reached full growth or alternatively is capable of reproduction
also see this

A girl reaching puberty does not mean she has reached full growth or is capable of reproduction. It says that her body has now begun adjusting for the reproduction.

A girl reaches full growth or gets the full capability of reproduction,(specially Bearing a child and giving Birth) when she is 17 -18 years old.

That is because maybe all the writers are under pressure from christian missionary to put Jesus christ No1. and also the person who write himself is christian..

This is absolutely pure BS. They have put jesus in no.1 because it is a fact.

Don't u wonder Hart being a christian he ranked mohammed as one?

No. Unlike some people, Hart was clearly capable of making up his mind and his views were clearly not biased on teachings he was taught from 6 years of age. He was a free thinker, unlike Muslims.

and why Mohammed was ranked one & not Jesus see the points.

Because Hart believes Muhammad was more influential. Are you trying to make a point here? If so, it is not clear to me.

Not necessarily good and it is influenced by Good doing also.

True. And some people influence by doing evil, Ex:Hitler. So how influential a person is not a measure of his morality.

but as far as prophet concerned I dont see any bad deeds

But I see bad deeds. That is why I want to clarify it.

 

[Wal Bada]

Dear walbada,

and as u told 16 is wrong, Minimum age for marriage in SL is 18.except muslims.refer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age

Now where did I mention age of marriage? I said the age for consent for sexual relationships is 16. Age for marriage is of course 18.