Prophet Muhammad and child marriages

[sudunone]

And I'm still waiting for an answer as to what a woman gets in Islamic heaven.

 

[sandun_kg]

I'm not interested in this subject....
So i don't want to comment

 

[I love Srilanka]

I'm only gonna comment on some of the things, coz this is getting tiresome, and we are going in circles.




You are so smart that you just did not realize you contradicted yourself. Without just babbling useless words, take a little time to think what something means.

Maybe it is relevant to ur replies.

There is a reason for modern Governments to define a legal age for an adult. That is because they consider them to be mentally capable of taking a decision without the help of an adult at a certain age. And yes this age is relative to the time, politics. This goes for reproduction also. Most of the sane people in the world have agreed that a person reach the physical and mental capacity of reproduction at a certain age, they define this age as adulthood and that is why they have legislated laws to minimize marriages before a certain age. Hence having sex with a girl who has not reached that age with or without her consent is rape.

Utter Nonsense, Gov't is so important in deciding someone's puberty age than the parents and the girl her self. no where i have seen ur legislated laws are effective, utter nonsense. im not talking abt having sex with girl, Im talking abt having sex with wife OK.Come on man!! Improve ur self.


Now you say when the politics change, the laws will change. So you are saying that since the laws are not absolute, i.e since they change over time, my response is utter nonsense.

Now here's how you contradict yourself.


No where im contradicting, it is otherway around..

More than once you state that laws,customs are relative and can change with time. In fact that is how you defend your prophets action of marrying a child of age 6. You say by those days laws it was ok. And now you say since laws change, over time my response is utter nonsense.

You r giving so importance to Mr.LAW. when is your current law is so effective??..what ur law is doing is innocent person in jail, culprit out.this is what your law.who r they to make minimum age of marriage. during a discussion with walbada, even he was saying SL marriage age is 18, and accepted sex age is 16..Don't u feel NONSENSE here. how come sex before the marriage.Maybe u were among those committee to make the legislative order as whatever they do nonsense.


Congrats by contradicting yourself you just showed how smart you are.. (Claps)
Are you clapping for u have contradicted ur self

Laws do change over time. That is why I'm talking about laws in today's world. And they are the frame for defining an adult. At least that is what sane people believe. An adult is physically+mentally adult in my( and those people who make laws) definition.

You urself decide when u are able to marry, Your Laws are important than person himself and his parents. that is why we have not accepted your laws regard to marriage age in SL, we dont follow the age 18. we marry always early.

Puberty and adulthood are two things. Reaching puberty does not mean she reached adulthood. i.e she is no longer a child. I never said the age someone reach puberty is 18.

What is d hell this? for what then she is getting puberty.(SO Natural is wrong here and GOD is wrong here)I have heard many case someone who reached puberty bound to do adultery, as u keep on postponing her / his marriage.your laws are nothing but father of Rape as it is encouraging adultery.

Having sex with a child with or without her consent is sick.

It is not child,bt someone who reached puberty. of course she will be able to enjoy in a right way if sex is done.

Thank you very much for bringing this up. Another good example to say why Islam is pure nonsense and full of contradictions.

WHat is d nonsense , full contradiction. maybe by looking this contradiction only Islam being a fastest growing religion in the West.Maybe people like this Contradiction isn't it..... You may say yes as you are childish..

I must congratulate you again here, not only you contradicted yourself, but you contradicted prophet Muhammad and thereby quran also with this.

there is no contradition.what is the meaning of contradiction in ur dictionary is it something good.


Muhammad married Aisha at the age of 6. She had not reached any of the given conditions.So by that time, she had not reached puberty according to the above Islam laws. It is clear that Muhammad himself had disobeyed Islamic laws, according to you. Or, if Muhammad himself is the law, contradicted himself or quran.

It is not proved that she has not reached puberty, neither it is 6 years old.but for sue it should b 9 or 19 thats it.You are again trying to prove based on the assumption.


According to what you have REPEATEDLY said(Marrying before puberty is wrong), what Muhammad did(Married Aisha before puberty) was wrong.

I have said in above reply.when your guys are going to change ur attitude of arguing based on the assumption,not abt fact..come on man!! Dont feel smart you are so intelligent to disprove Islam as many of the learned people already lost in this.

I'm eagerly waiting for your answer. Rest of the stuff is not important and will only make my reply longer.

what reply..my answers are always clear to u



Thanks I read it, and now clearly understand Islam is all about contradictions and sick ideas(I mean considering a girl who is not even menstruating an adult and having sex with her?? That is sick).

then ONLY ur Law is correct?, then OK..tell ur people to marry exactly after 18years ok...not even on 17years and 364days.... first of all ,ur Law is sick, and also followers have to be sick people to follow that. it is neither Islam or prophet.
Summary:- We have not come to any conclusion as to what is right. I hope your basic replies are inline with ur original question which was initially posted.So im doubt we can improve in this as long as u keep on repeating the same answers.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Few other questions, which are not relevant to the thread.

What is a hadith?

Do you believe/accept what is written in hadiths?

It is said the collection of hadiths by Sahib Bhukari is considered to be the most authentic book after Quran. Is this true??

It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” [3]

As to the authenticity of these reports, it may be noted that the compilers of the books of Hadith did not apply the same stringent tests when accepting reports relating to historical matters as they did before accepting reports relating to the practical teachings and laws of Islam. The reason is that the former type of report was regarded as merely of academic interest while the latter type of report had a direct bearing on the practical duties of a Muslim and on what was allowed to them and what was prohibited. Thus the occurrence of reports such as the above about the marriage of Aisha in books of Hadith, even in Bukhari, is not necessarily a proof of their credibility.

Research subsequent to the time of Maulana Muhammad Ali has shown that she was older than this. An excellent short work presenting such evidence is the Urdu pamphlet Rukhsati kai waqt Sayyida Aisha Siddiqa ki umar (‘The age of Lady Aisha at the time of the start of her married life’) by Abu Tahir Irfani.[4a] Points 1 to 3 below have been brought to light in this pamphlet.

1. The famous classical historian of Islam, Ibn Jarir Tabari, wrote in his ‘History’:

“In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.” [5]

Being born before Islam means being born before the Call.

2. The compiler of the famous Hadith collection Mishkat al-Masabih, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, who died 700 years ago, has also written brief biographical notes on the narrators of Hadith reports. He writes under Asma, the older daughter of Abu Bakr:

“She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years.” [6]


This would make Asma 28 years of age in 1 A.H., the year of the Hijra, thus making Aisha 18 years old in 1 A.H. So Aisha would be 19 years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage, and 14 or 15 years old at the time of her nikah. It would place her year of birth at four or five years before the Call.

3. The same statement is made by the famous classical commentator of the Holy Quran, Ibn Kathir, in his book Al-bidayya wal-nihaya:

“Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha.” [7]

Apart from these three evidences, which are presented in the Urdu pamphlet referred to above, we also note that the birth of Aisha being a little before the Call is consistent with the opening words of a statement by her which is recorded four times in Bukhari. Those words are as follows:

“Ever since I can remember (or understand things) my parents were following the religion of Islam.” [8]

This is tantamount to saying that she was born sometime before her parents accepted Islam but she can only remember them practising Islam. No doubt she and her parents knew well whether she was born before or after they accepted Islam, as their acceptance of Islam was such a landmark event in their life which took place just after the Holy Prophet received his mission from God. If she had been born after they accepted Islam it would make no sense for her to say that she always remembered them as following Islam. Only if she was born before they accepted Islam, would it make sense for her to say that she can only remember them being Muslims, as she was too young to remember things before their conversion. This is consistent with her being born before the Call, and being perhaps four or five years old at the time of the Call, which was also almost the time when her parents accepted Islam.

Two further evidences cited by Maulana Muhammad Ali

In the footnotes of his Urdu translation and commentary of Sahih Bukhari, entitled Fadl-ul-Bari, Maulana Muhammad Ali had pointed out reports of two events which show that Aisha could not have been born later than the year of the Call. These are as follows.

1. The above mentioned statement by Aisha in Bukhari, about her earliest memory of her parents being that they were followers of Islam, begins with the following words in its version in Bukhari’s Kitab-ul-Kafalat. We quote this from the English translation of Bukhari by M. Muhsin Khan:

“Since I reached the age when I could remember things, I have seen my parents worshipping according to the right faith of Islam. Not a single day passed but Allah’s Apostle visited us both in the morning and in the evening. When the Muslims were persecuted, Abu Bakr set out for Ethiopia as an emigrant.” [9]

Commenting on this report, Maulana Muhammad Ali writes:

“This report sheds some light on the question of the age of Aisha. … The mention of the persecution of Muslims along with the emigration to Ethiopia clearly shows that this refers to the fifth or the sixth year of the Call. … At that time Aisha was of an age to discern things, and so her birth could not have been later than the first year of the Call.” [10]

Again, this would make her more than fourteen at the time of the consummation of her marriage.

2. There is a report in Sahih Bukhari as follows:

“On the day (of the battle) of Uhud when (some) people retreated and left the Prophet, I saw Aisha daughter of Abu Bakr and Umm Sulaim, with their robes tucked up so that the bangles around their ankles were visible hurrying with their water skins (in another narration it is said, ‘carrying the water skins on their backs’). Then they would pour the water in the mouths of the people, and return to fill the water skins again and came back again to pour water in the mouths of the people.” [11]

Maulana Muhammad Ali writes in a footnote under this report:

“It should also be noted that Aisha joined the Holy Prophet’s household only one year before the battle of Uhud. According to the common view she would be only ten years of age at this time, which is certainly not a suitable age for the work she did on this occasion. This also shows that she was not so young at this time.” [12]

If, as shown in the previous section above, Aisha was nineteen at the time of the consummation of her marriage, then she would be twenty years old at the time of the battle of Uhud. It may be added that on the earlier occasion of the battle of Badr when some Muslim youths tried, out of eagerness, to go along with the Muslim army to the field of battle, the Holy Prophet Muhammad sent them back on account of their young age (allowing only one such youngster, Umair ibn Abi Waqqas, to accompany his older brother the famous Companion Sa‘d ibn Abi Waqqas). It seems, therefore, highly unlikely that if Aisha was ten years old the Holy Prophet would have allowed her to accompany the army to the field of battle.

We conclude from all the evidence cited above that Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was nineteen years old when she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife in the year 2 A.H., the nikah or betrothal having taken place five years previously.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Ancient,

I want you to see some learned people website, if u want to actually understand if u dont want to accept me. click the link

http://ilovezakirnaik.com/madamayeshah/index.htm

 

[AncientGlory]

then ONLY ur Law is correct?, then OK..tell ur people to marry exactly after 18years ok...not even on 17years and 364days.... first of all ,ur Law is sick, and also followers have to be sick people to follow that. it is neither Islam or prophet.
Summary:- We have not come to any conclusion as to what is right. I hope your basic replies are inline with ur original question which was initially posted.So im doubt we can improve in this as long as u keep on repeating the same answers.

Thank you, and lets stop our discussion here. Here are my closing remarks.

(1) If you say that Muhammad did not marry Aisha at the age of 6, but at a latter age, say 15, We do not have an argument. I have already seen the argument by Zakir Naik. That is why I said from the beginning make up your mind. Did he or Did he not marry her at the age of 6? To me it seemed that you did make up your mind.

(2) Since both of us have strayed from the original topic a little bit, I'd like to bring it up briefly.
Some people do believe Muhammad married Aisha at the age of 6. (Specially in countries like Yeman, Somalia, etc). They consider Muhammad as a role model. Which is good. But they also use his marriage age(What they believe) as a way to justify child marriages happening in those countries.

Intention of the topic was,
(a) Learn Sri Lankan Muslim idea of this.

(b)If anyone believes Aisha married Muhammad at age 6 and it is ok, argue with them and make them understand, that action is immoral.

(c) Idea is to argue that child marriages are wrong. If anyone uses Islam as an excuse that is wrong.

Additionally I have learned that, Hadiths are not to be taken as authentic sources when considering historical events, according to you.

Thanks.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Thank you, and lets stop our discussion here. Here are my closing remarks.

(1) If you say that Muhammad did not marry Aisha at the age of 6, but at a latter age, say 15, We do not have an argument. I have already seen the argument by Zakir Naik. That is why I said from the beginning make up your mind. Did he or Did he not marry her at the age of 6? To me it seemed that you did make up your mind.

Not only me,of course no one is sure abt this, as each & every scholars differs in this Issue.either it is 9 or 19.Not 6.

(2) Since both of us have strayed from the original topic a little bit, I'd like to bring it up briefly.
Some people do believe Muhammad married Aisha at the age of 6. (Specially in countries like Yeman, Somalia, etc). They consider Muhammad as a role model. Which is good. But they also use his marriage age(What they believe) as a way to justify child marriages happening in those countries.

My argument from the start, that if some one follow Prophet as role model with regard to marriage, first he should prefer to marry widow than a so called Child. of course prophet married more widows than virgin,.not vice versa OK. no one should justify so..

Intention of the topic was,
(a) Learn Sri Lankan Muslim idea of this.

In SL I dont think we marry before 15 or 16. maybe some exception due to some other factors i.e poor.

(b)If anyone believes Aisha married Muhammad at age 6 and it is ok, argue with them and make them understand, that action is immoral.

Still not sure, based on Assumption we cant argue. bt surely it is not 6.even if we assume it is 9. It is possible due to the previous reply which i provided.

(c) Idea is to argue that child marriages are wrong. If anyone uses Islam as an excuse that is wrong.

As I told u, If someone say so. Im being a muslim I will ask him to marry Widow...No one should misuse and make in the name of islam.neither Quran or Prophet told to marry so..Im sure this is not done by good muslims who follow the islam correctly,it is really not needed as per the current situation.maybe Allah ordered Prophet to marry that time to avoid missing the hadith, as i told you earlier only aisha lived for long years after prophet died and was able to gather many hadith & spread the islam.

Additionally I have learned that, Hadiths are not to be taken as authentic sources when considering historical events, according to you.

When there is different opinion among the Imam like Buhari,thirmidhi,muslim etc...

Thanks.

You are most welcome.Thanks!

 

[fuckyoudickhead]

This is wrong information about islam so stop talking shit.

The abuse of boys and girls in the christian churches it's well-documented.

 

[AncientGlory]

The abuse of boys and girls in the christian churches it's well-documented.

What's that gotta do with the this?