Why do Muslims bury dead bodies instead of cremating them?

[sirajstc]

if u really need to learn the women rights in Islam , please see the link & question us rather than going to anti islam websites where they are misquoting the Quran & hadith versus,
http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/womenrights/index.htm#Social_Rights_to_a_Sister:

yeah and if u want to know the truth Visit Here...

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac9.htm#links

 

[AncientGlory]

Don't say what i didn't say, I said Muhammad led wars. not initiated... Haha but, there are things he himself have said, like,

Because I was told by couple of muslims that violence is permitted in Islam in order to defend themselves, I did some research on the subject. I found more than 100 versus from quaran that promoted violence, and from these I carefully selected 3-5 versus that clearly showed, with the historical context the fighting was not carried in a defensive manner, and posted it in the thread. (Not started by me, we were just discussing.)

I think it must have gotten too many complains by muslims( What else can they do? They can't deny it when its right out there) the thread was immediately deleted. But the action proved a point to me, and it will to anyone who do a little bit of research.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Because I was told by couple of muslims that violence is permitted in Islam in order to defend themselves, I did some research on the subject. I found more than 100 versus from quaran that promoted violence, and from these I carefully selected 3-5 versus that clearly showed, with the historical context the fighting was not carried in a defensive manner, and posted it in the thread. (Not started by me, we were just discussing.)

I think it must have gotten too many complains by muslims( What else can they do? They can't deny it when its right out there) the thread was immediately deleted. But the action proved a point to me, and it will to anyone who do a little bit of research.

My Friend Anicientglory, like u said many critics they did vast research in order to prove Quran is violence, whatever they brought is something out of context, now u r saying in context quran promoted violence, can u Quote not 100 but at least 3 versus, so I am extremely happy to deal with that..and you also should be willing to accept my reply.
who deleted the thread, we never do that, if we and our scriptures are so weak , there is no reason why i will be ready to challenge you this regard.it is the only some non Muslim brothers run away, or turning the table when we give right answers,as though they r not convinced, if they cant do so also eventually they one by one or grouper will abuse prophet, Allah, that is what happens in this great forum.

 

[diamonddrago]

My Friend Anicientglory, like u said many critics they did vast research in order to prove Quran is violence, whatever they brought is something out of context, now u r saying in context quran promoted violence, can u Quote not 100 but at least 3 versus, so I am extremely happy to deal with that..and you also should be willing to accept my reply.
who deleted the thread, we never do that, if we and our scriptures are so weak , there is no reason why i will be ready to challenge you this regard.it is the only some non Muslim brothers run away, or turning the table when we give right answers,as though they r not convinced, if they cant do so also eventually they one by one or grouper will abuse prophet, Allah, that is what happens in this great forum.

so true bro...so true......

point in case that member called Bishop....we were debating in a intellectual level....then suddenly he got "violent"...started attacking me and Islam on the most random things.....

apparently we "violent" Muslims are more tolerant and patient....then the "peaceful" religions of the world.....

i would like everyone to know....that proclaiming your a Muslim on the internet....pulls out all kinds of racist & bigotry comments from ppl....

so my advice Aincientglory....i bet my left ear lobe......that what you "researched" and brought forward was already answered in a very satisfactory way by a Muslim online or offline...in the thousands of forums/real-life-situations where we "violent" Muslims are attacked constantly by "peace-loving" members of other religions....

 

[bishop]

so true bro...so true......

point in case that member called Bishop....we were debating in a intellectual level....then suddenly he got "violent"...started attacking me and Islam on the most random things.....

apparently we "violent" Muslims are more tolerant and patient....then the "peaceful" religions of the world.....

i would like everyone to know....that proclaiming your a Muslim on the internet....pulls out all kinds of racist & bigotry comments from ppl....

so my advice Aincientglory....i bet my left ear lobe......that what you "researched" and brought forward was already answered in a very satisfactory way by a Muslim online or offline...in the thousands of forums/real-life-situations where we "violent" Muslims are attacked constantly by "peace-loving" members of other religions....

You mentioned my ID here!?just need to drag me into a debate!?Hey liar would you please tell me where I got violent!

 

[AncientGlory]

My Friend Anicientglory, like u said many critics they did vast research in order to prove Quran is violence, whatever they brought is something out of context, now u r saying in context quran promoted violence, can u Quote not 100 but at least 3 versus, so I am extremely happy to deal with that..and you also should be willing to accept my reply.
who deleted the thread, we never do that, if we and our scriptures are so weak , there is no reason why i will be ready to challenge you this regard.it is the only some non Muslim brothers run away, or turning the table when we give right answers,as though they r not convinced, if they cant do so also eventually they one by one or grouper will abuse prophet, Allah, that is what happens in this great forum.

Hello I_love_SriLanka. We meet again friend.

Just to clarify few things.

I didn't say anyone or anything weak, I just pointed out a reason I thought might have been the cause for the the deletion of a thread. Maybe I was wrong.

I said "with the historical context" I don't know how you went from that to "in context quaran". I think perhaps you need to read my post again to understand what I was saying.

I'm willing to accept your replies. But it does not mean your replies are gonna convince me anything. They may or they may not. I will accept anything logical, or make sense, so if whatever you are gonna say makes sense to ME, I will of course accept it.

Now when you say three verses are you referring to verses that I said "promote violence" or to verses that promote violence behavior even when it is not a case of defending yourself?

 

[I love Srilanka]

Hello I_love_SriLanka. We meet again friend.

Thanks for come up with a new subject.

Just to clarify few things.

I didn't say anyone or anything weak, I just pointed out a reason I thought might have been the cause for the the deletion of a thread. Maybe I was wrong.

If you are not sure, you should not say anything.there is no question of "MAY BE" either yes or no..according to Quran Suspicion is prohibited. hope it is not in ur case.You are wrong only(not may be)


I said "with the historical context" I don't know how you went from that to "in context quaran". I think perhaps you need to read my post again to understand what I was saying.

Haven't u said, you found more than 100 versus in which Quran promotes violence.this what I was referring to.


I'm willing to accept your replies. But it does not mean your replies are gonna convince me anything. They may or they may not. I will accept anything logical, or make sense, so if whatever you are gonna say makes sense to ME, I will of course accept it.

I fear your conditional reply, will not make u to accept anything regardless of what is provided to you.some body will not accept anything unless when something is logical this need not be mentioned in your reply. based on your reply I feel so far no muslims ever replied logically to u and other buddhist friends.because I never seen some one accepted anything with the answer which was provided by any of the muslim in this forum. u mean to say all muslims who are coming here giving the illogical replies or you guys are not able to understand anything.it should be either one of the case...


Now when you say three verses are you referring to verses that I said "promote violence" or to verses that promote violence behavior even when it is not a case of defending yourself?

I was referring to Quran promotes violence, but I leave it for your convenience, u can select any of the versus as i will be able to reply for anything inshaallah...

 

[diamonddrago]

Hello I_love_SriLanka. We meet again friend.

Just to clarify few things.

I didn't say anyone or anything weak, I just pointed out a reason I thought might have been the cause for the the deletion of a thread. Maybe I was wrong.

I said "with the historical context" I don't know how you went from that to "in context quaran". I think perhaps you need to read my post again to understand what I was saying.

I'm willing to accept your replies. But it does not mean your replies are gonna convince me anything. They may or they may not. I will accept anything logical, or make sense, so if whatever you are gonna say makes sense to ME, I will of course accept it.

Now when you say three verses are you referring to verses that I said "promote violence" or to verses that promote violence behavior even when it is not a case of defending yourself?

granted yes.....

but you do have to give some lee-way for what God intends as "punishment"...to non-believers.....as this is a matter between you and God...and there are more than 3 verses in the Quran that mention unimaginable "violence" in that regard.....

 

[AncientGlory]

I was referring to Quran promotes violence, but I leave it for your convenience, u can select any of the versus as i will be able to reply for anything inshaallah...

Explain Quran 2:216

Here is the Pickthal's translation.

Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

 

[diamonddrago]

Explain Quran 2:216

Here is the Pickthal's translation.

Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

ok...lets look at this verse in this way.....all pickthal versions...so as to be fair....

Quran 2:213 > "Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed. And only those unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had come unto them, through hatred one of another. And Allah by His Will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path. "

Quran 2:214 > "Or think ye that ye will enter paradise while yet there hath not come unto you the like of (that which came to) those who passed away before you? Affliction and adversity befell them, they were shaken as with earthquake, till the messenger (of Allah) and those who believed along with him said: When cometh Allah's help? Now surely Allah's help is nigh. "

Quran 2:215 > "They ask thee, (O Muhammad), what they shall spend. Say: that which ye spend for good (must go) to parents and near kindred and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer. And whatsoever good ye do, lo! Allah is Aware of it. "

Quran 2:216 > "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not. "

Quran 2:217 > "They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And whoso becometh a renegade and dieth in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein. "

Quran 2:218 > "Lo! those who believe, and those who emigrate (to escape the persecution) and strive in the way of Allah, these have hope of Allah's mercy. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "

Quran 2:219 > "They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say: that which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations, that haply ye may reflect. "

Quran 2:220 > "Upon the world and the Hereafter. And they question thee concerning orphans. Say: To improve their lot is best. And if ye mingle your affairs with theirs, then (they are) your brothers. Allah knoweth him who spoileth from him who improveth. Had Allah willed He could have overburdened you. Allah is Mighty, Wise. "


I think the message is quite clear here....

For better clarity i use the Yusufali versions below for reference.....

Quran 2:213 > "Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight. "

Quran 2:214 > "Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near! "

Quran 2:215 > "They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -Allah knoweth it well. "

Quran 2:216 > "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. "

Quran 2:217 > "They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein. "

Quran 2:218 > "Those who believed and those who suffered exile and fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah,- they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah: And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. "

Quran 2:219 > "They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider- "

Quran 2:220 > "(Their bearings) on this life and the Hereafter. They ask thee concerning orphans. Say: "The best thing to do is what is for their good; if ye mix their affairs with yours, they are your brethren; but Allah knows the man who means mischief from the man who means good. And if Allah had wished, He could have put you into difficulties: He is indeed Exalted in Power, Wise."

its talking about sins and good deeds....and that particular verse is talking about fighting against oppression....even during the months of prohibition (month of fasting for Muslims).....

coz Muslims of that time...were mostly converted slaves and the poor and down trodden....who had no will to fight....and were too scared to fight back against ppl who wanted to oppress Islam into nothingness....so God says fight....basic message of that verse when taken in context....fight if your oppressed even if you don't want to or are too scared...coz God is by your side....

it can also be taken as...fighting against your passions....or fighting against temptations for sinning....and taken the context of the verses...i think the latter is the whole message to be taken from that particular verse....read once again with this point in mind and you would get a clearer picture.....

 

[I love Srilanka]

Explain Quran 2:216

Here is the Pickthal's translation.

Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

In fact this versus says in the context,Fighting is ordained for Muslims in order to defend themselves and their rights, as well as the rights of others. The obligation to physically defend one’s rights and to establish justice.please don't check it up with only one versus,and misquote the verse, I know though it is very difficult for you to check all the related previous, later versus of any particular verse.it is always appreciated to check it up or ask some one about any verse.if u need please see the the website it will be very useful for everyone http://quran.com/2/213-219.

It is most certainly a duty of all human beings to help each other from oppression and injustice. This is what Islam teaches


(4:75) And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help."


Brother,I don't mind in explaining you if u have any other similar versus with u, actually I know all of the versus are picked up out of context & posted in the website by the critics of Isalm,as though Quran is violence.and people who have no knowledge or some knowledge about islam are misguided.

 

[sirajstc]

ok...lets look at this verse in this way.....all pickthal versions...so as to be fair....

Quran 2:213 > "Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed. And only those unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had come unto them, through hatred one of another. And Allah by His Will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path. "

Quran 2:214 > "Or think ye that ye will enter paradise while yet there hath not come unto you the like of (that which came to) those who passed away before you? Affliction and adversity befell them, they were shaken as with earthquake, till the messenger (of Allah) and those who believed along with him said: When cometh Allah's help? Now surely Allah's help is nigh. "

Quran 2:215 > "They ask thee, (O Muhammad), what they shall spend. Say: that which ye spend for good (must go) to parents and near kindred and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer. And whatsoever good ye do, lo! Allah is Aware of it. "

Quran 2:216 > "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not. "

Quran 2:217 > "They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And whoso becometh a renegade and dieth in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein. "

Quran 2:218 > "Lo! those who believe, and those who emigrate (to escape the persecution) and strive in the way of Allah, these have hope of Allah's mercy. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "

Quran 2:219 > "They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say: that which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations, that haply ye may reflect. "

Quran 2:220 > "Upon the world and the Hereafter. And they question thee concerning orphans. Say: To improve their lot is best. And if ye mingle your affairs with theirs, then (they are) your brothers. Allah knoweth him who spoileth from him who improveth. Had Allah willed He could have overburdened you. Allah is Mighty, Wise. "


I think the message is quite clear here....

For better clarity i use the Yusufali versions below for reference.....

Quran 2:213 > "Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight. "

Quran 2:214 > "Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near! "

Quran 2:215 > "They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -Allah knoweth it well. "

Quran 2:216 > "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. "

Quran 2:217 > "They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein. "

Quran 2:218 > "Those who believed and those who suffered exile and fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah,- they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah: And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. "

Quran 2:219 > "They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider- "

Quran 2:220 > "(Their bearings) on this life and the Hereafter. They ask thee concerning orphans. Say: "The best thing to do is what is for their good; if ye mix their affairs with yours, they are your brethren; but Allah knows the man who means mischief from the man who means good. And if Allah had wished, He could have put you into difficulties: He is indeed Exalted in Power, Wise."

its talking about sins and good deeds....and that particular verse is talking about fighting against oppression....even during the months of prohibition (month of fasting for Muslims).....

coz Muslims of that time...were mostly converted slaves and the poor and down trodden....who had no will to fight....and were too scared to fight back against ppl who wanted to oppress Islam into nothingness....so God says fight....basic message of that verse when taken in context....fight if your oppressed even if you don't want to or are too scared...coz God is by your side....

it can also be taken as...fighting against your passions....or fighting against temptations for sinning....and taken the context of the verses...i think the latter is the whole message to be taken from that particular verse....read once again with this point in mind and you would get a clearer picture.....

 

[AncientGlory]

Sorry for the late reply. To understand things better let me ask few questions.

coz Muslims of that time...were mostly converted slaves and the poor and down trodden....who had no will to fight....and were too scared to fight back against ppl who wanted to oppress Islam into nothingness....

How do you know this? What are your sources?

it can also be taken as...fighting against your passions....or fighting against temptations for sinning....

When you say 'it can also be taken as' are you saying there are two equally valid meanings?

 

[AncientGlory]

Sorry for the late reply. Lets discuss, don't take any questions personally. I'm asking these to make a point. That's all.

In fact this versus says in the context,Fighting is ordained for Muslims in order to defend themselves and their rights, as well as the rights of others.

(1) Why do you think ordaining fighting(Regardless its defensive or offensive) is not promoting violence?

(2) Where did you find the word defend? Where is the defensive act mentioned?

(3) What do you mean by right of "others"? Who are "others"?

It is most certainly a duty of all human beings to help each other from oppression and injustice. This is what Islam teaches

What is the oppression and injustice you are talking about here? Is there a historical story to it? Or you are talking in general terms. Do you consider not allowing someone to worship their own religion as oppression and injustice?(Look below verse)

"Quran 2:217 > "They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing."

actually I know all of the versus are picked up out of context & posted in the website by the critics of Isalm,as though Quran is violence.

Of course I have taken them from the Internet. I don't have the time to read the whole quran. But the quran is the same disregard where I take it. So it does not matter. We are discussing quaran verses Not what is in anti Islamic sites

and people who have no knowledge or some knowledge about islam are misguided.

I highly doubt this. Your idea of guidance it seems that only a muslim can truly understand and explain quran. But I think only an unbiased person can truly make an unbiased decision about it.

 

[diamonddrago]

Sorry for the late reply. To understand things better let me ask few questions.



How do you know this? What are your sources?


When you say 'it can also be taken as' are you saying there are two equally valid meanings?

for the first one....the proof is the arab accounts of life in Medinan, Mecca & the surrounding areas.....it was a jewish author who wrote a book abt it...can't remember the name and the google doesn't give a reply.....

but there are plenty of books that decribe the same thing....there is a book called

"The Life of the Prophet Muhammad" by Prof. Trevor Le Gassick...go read it up if you want.....

and yes the Quran does give multiple messages in a context......as humanity matures the context of the Quran can give fresh meanings.....for example....verses in the Quran that seem mundane at first....give new fresh meanings as science n society evolves.....

the Quran is as relevant as it was hundreds of years ago....and as reveleant as it is now...and it will be till the end of time........or so we muslims believe....

 

[diamonddrago]

Sorry for the late reply. Lets discuss, don't take any questions personally. I'm asking these to make a point. That's all.



(1) Why do you think ordaining fighting(Regardless its defensive or offensive) is not promoting violence?

(2) Where did you find the word defend? Where is the defensive act mentioned?

(3) What do you mean by right of "others"? Who are "others"?


What is the oppression and injustice you are talking about here? Is there a historical story to it? Or you are talking in general terms. Do you consider not allowing someone to worship their own religion as oppression and injustice?(Look below verse)

"Quran 2:217 > "They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing."


Of course I have taken them from the Internet. I don't have the time to read the whole quran. But the quran is the same disregard where I take it. So it does not matter. We are discussing quaran verses Not what is in anti Islamic sites


I highly doubt this. Your idea of guidance it seems that only a muslim can truly understand and explain quran. But I think only an unbiased person can truly make an unbiased decision about it.

I have to say one thing here thou.....

Jihad is how Quran talks about war......Jihad or to be more clear holy war or fighting in the way of God....

this does not necessarily mean fighting and killing people.....fighting ur temptations is also Jihad....working hard in a competitive environment to succeed is also Jihad.....making sure to protect the well being of ur ,country ,religion, community, neighborhood, family...etc...is also Jihad....

so when Islam/God says fight(Jihad)....you have to take in account that its not actually about mounting a camel banishing a saber and cutting the heads of "infidels"....its about working hard and staying true to God and His laws....

what Islam says abt defense is....to protect those that cannot protect themselves.....for saving one human is like saving the entire human race....and killing a person in cold blood....is akin to killing the entire human race.....

 

[AncientGlory]

but there are plenty of books that decribe the same thing....there is a book called

"The Life of the Prophet Muhammad" by Prof. Trevor Le Gassick...go read it up if you want.....

Actually I couldn't find a book named "The life of the prophet Muhammad" written by Prof. Trevor Le Gassick.. But however I found one written by Ibn Kathir, later translated by Prof. Trevor Le Gassick. Is this the book you are talking about?

Also I know there are plenty of books, but I thought we are only talking about things taken from quran. I thought you don't consider hadiths as authentic sources. Ibn Kathir was famous as a hadith narrator and his book contains much from hadiths it seems.

and yes the Quran does give multiple messages in a context......as humanity matures the context of the Quran can give fresh meanings.....for example....verses in the Quran that seem mundane at first....give new fresh meanings as science n society evolves.....

In that case could it be possible that quran is also talking about physical violence in here? Why would you say otherwise? The direct meaning implies that does it not?

or so we muslims believe....

Seems like you do think out of the box. Wel done and thanks for the honesty.

 

[AncientGlory]

I have to say one thing here thou.....

Jihad is how Quran talks about war......Jihad or to be more clear holy war or fighting in the way of God....

this does not necessarily mean fighting and killing people.....fighting ur temptations is also Jihad....working hard in a competitive environment to succeed is also Jihad.....making sure to protect the well being of ur ,country ,religion, community, neighborhood, family...etc...is also Jihad....

so when Islam/God says fight(Jihad)....you have to take in account that its not actually about mounting a camel banishing a saber and cutting the heads of "infidels"....its about working hard and staying true to God and His laws....

what Islam says abt defense is....to protect those that cannot protect themselves.....for saving one human is like saving the entire human race....and killing a person in cold blood....is akin to killing the entire human race.....

Your ideas are interesting. But it seems some muslims have different opinions. Again, your ideas however does not represent the direct meaning of versers(This is OK). Any reason why you think it is not directly mentioned? One might argue that you are just altering the meaning of quran. What is directly mentioned is obvious. Many muslims follow the direct meaning and engage in physical violence. Do you agree? In this thread also different opinions are raised.

 

[diamonddrago]

Actually I couldn't find a book named "The life of the prophet Muhammad" written by Prof. Trevor Le Gassick.. But however I found one written by Ibn Kathir, later translated by Prof. Trevor Le Gassick. Is this the book you are talking about?

Also I know there are plenty of books, but I thought we are only talking about things taken from quran. I thought you don't consider hadiths as authentic sources. Ibn Kathir was famous as a hadith narrator and his book contains much from hadiths it seems.


In that case could it be possible that quran is also talking about physical violence in here? Why would you say otherwise? The direct meaning implies that does it not?


Seems like you do think out of the box. Wel done and thanks for the honesty.

yes that is the book i meant........i mentioned that book....in reference, if you remember....to you asking for proof of my claims that mostly the slaves & poor being the majority of Muslims in that period....

Ibn Kathir is a person who compiles hadiths yes...but this book references hadiths but is not based on it...rather on historical facts and findings....i do accept hadiths IF they comply with the Quran....

overall i never take the words of "Islamic scholars" seriously....especially when it comes to their famous hadiths....

You have to read the whole Quran to see the point....the quran nor God condones mindless physical violence....

if your talking abt modern day terrorists they fight for land and Palestine...not coz of the Quran or religion....

they do use the Quran to "boost moral" and use loosely constructed "hadiths" to drive and brain wash the masses....but every Muslim on earth condemns their violent acts and complete brainwashing of the poor, uneducated and desperate people to get what they want....

 

[diamonddrago]

Your ideas are interesting. But it seems some muslims have different opinions. Again, your ideas however does not represent the direct meaning of versers(This is OK). Any reason why you think it is not directly mentioned? One might argue that you are just altering the meaning of quran. What is directly mentioned is obvious. Many muslims follow the direct meaning and engage in physical violence. Do you agree? In this thread also different opinions are raised.

The Quran has existed since around 630BC....and it has to stay relevant for all time and for all manner of ppl....and yet the Quran her never been changed since it was compiled from the preaching/recitals of prophet Muhammad....

Muslims are required to know the Quran by heart.....but now a days Muslims barely read it...let alone memorize its meanings....this allowed ppl who lust for power to misguide and change the message of the Quran.....

the message of the Quran is that of peace....and of being humble before and for God.......and every verse in the Quran has to be taken in context...no matter how "violent" it seems....if you read the same verse a few times + take into conjecture of the verses it accompanies....you will see the verse in question is not as violent as it seemed at first.....i know that was kind of weird...hope u understand from our point of view....