Why do Muslims bury dead bodies instead of cremating them?

[brave]

What is the oppression and injustice you are talking about here? Is there a historical story to it? Or you are talking in general terms. Do you consider not allowing someone to worship their own religion as oppression and injustice?(Look below verse)

there is a historical story behind every verse of the quran.

and to get the idea of quran we need to take hadees as well. u mentioned that we dont consider as authontic which is totally wrong.there are hadees which are 100% authentic.if the same hadees said by many trust worthy people is consider as authentic.and there are some which doubtful and some are which fake and going ageinst what prophet actually taught.so hadees and quran are to be consider important.

do u know where prophet (SAW) born?
where he lived in is early ages?
after the prophet-hood why he migrated to madeena?
if prophet is the person who declared war going to the villages killing unarmed men why all the wars happened surround the area of madeena.(realize who came where to fight)so dont u see the self defense here?

 

[diamonddrago]

What is the oppression and injustice you are talking about here? Is there a historical story to it? Or you are talking in general terms. Do you consider not allowing someone to worship their own religion as oppression and injustice?(Look below verse)

there is a historical story behind every verse of the quran.

and to get the idea of quran we need to take hadees as well. u mentioned that we dont consider as authontic which is totally wrong.there are hadees which are 100% authentic.if the same hadees said by many trust worthy people is consider as authentic.and there are some which doubtful and some are which fake and going ageinst what prophet actually taught.so hadees and quran are to be consider important.

do u know where prophet (SAW) born?
where he lived in is early ages?
after the prophet-hood why he migrated to madeena?
if prophet is the person who declared war going to the villages killing unarmed men why all the wars happened surround the area of madeena.(realize who came where to fight)so dont u see the self defense here?

what verse below....

at any rate...yes the people in Mecca at that time....did not want Muslims to live....coz it preached of a single God and that everyone was equal....

most Arabs of that time had slaves and treated women like trash....and along came Islam saying everyone is equal in front of God as humans and that women had equal rights etc....of course the non-believers of that time didn't like this...as their slaves started to follow this religion....

so they started to torture and abuse anyone who became a Muslim to force them to give up Islam....but most muslims of that time didn't give up...and ended up dying with that famous line "there is not God but Allah and prophet Muhammad is the messenger of God"

so until they became a sizable community most Muslims lived secret double lives in fear of the torture n abuse...

and even after they migrated to Medina these mostly former slaves still didn't have the will to put up any kind of fight....or defend themselves....

if they had followed a non defensive life style...there will not be Muslims now.....

that is why there is seem to be so much "violence" in the Quran its God's way (or that of any good general) to rally His followers and increase their moral....

but with strict guidelines....

even in the Quran.....

2:190 > "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. "

"And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. "

this is the majority message....

I gave this verse coz it is the shortest and most clear verse to non-believers.....to see that Islam and God do not condone attacking....only defending....

 

[I love Srilanka]

Sorry for the late reply. Lets discuss, don't take any questions personally. I'm asking these to make a point. That's all.



(1) Why do you think ordaining fighting(Regardless its defensive or offensive) is not promoting violence?

(2) Where did you find the word defend? Where is the defensive act mentioned?

(3) What do you mean by right of "others"? Who are "others"?


What is the oppression and injustice you are talking about here? Is there a historical story to it? Or you are talking in general terms. Do you consider not allowing someone to worship their own religion as oppression and injustice?(Look below verse)

"Quran 2:217 > "They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing."


Of course I have taken them from the Internet. I don't have the time to read the whole quran. But the quran is the same disregard where I take it. So it does not matter. We are discussing quaran verses Not what is in anti Islamic sites


I highly doubt this. Your idea of guidance it seems that only a muslim can truly understand and explain quran. But I think only an unbiased person can truly make an unbiased decision about it.

I hope you need a direct words which says islam is not violence, anyway I would like to give you the sequence and circumstances of versus in which it was revealed.this will help you to understand and clarify your questions. please read the below.

In the previous ayahs,(refer 2:213,214) we saw Allah (swt) preparing the Muslim Ummah for carrying his Message to mankind. Allah (swt) reminded them how the effort to carry this Message to mankind
was a struggle that had existed since the dawn of time. It was for this purpose that Allah (swt) had
sent all of the prophets and messengers. Allah (swt) also reminded the Muslims how they would
have be patient and steadfast because the role of carrying this Message required the nation that
bears this responsibility to go through severe test and trials. Only those who demonstrate
patience have a chance of their actions being accepted by Allah (swt). Only those who show
patience have a hope of getting the Help of Allah (swt). Not only is it required to show patience
and steadfastness through trials and difficulties, but the mission of carrying this Message also
requires sacrifice. One of these sacrifices was that of wealth and resources. So in this ayah, Allah
(swt) teaches us how we should be willing to part with our wealth if we are among those who
would carry this Message to mankind. At the time of the Prophet (saw), many of the Muslims
were ready and willing to sacrifice their wealth to gain the Pleasure of Allah (swt), but they were
unsure as to who was the most deserving of their wealth. They wanted to give their money in the
way of Allah (swt) but they were not sure who to give it to. Allah (swt) addresses their doubts in
this ayah
in 2:215 Allah (swt) begins this ayah by saying “They ask you what they can spend”. Here we can see how the Quran is not a static book, but it responds to the questions and
situations that arose in the lives of the Muslims. This fact that the Quran is dynamic is a further
proof of it’s Miracle because not only is at it the height of Arabic but it is Arabic that came in
response to the environment. Allah (swt) responds to the questions of the early Muslims by commanding the Prophet(saw) to “Say “Whatever you spend from good”. Before we look at whom Allah (swt) has
commanded us to spend on, notice that Allah (swt) refers to spending from “the good”. Thus the
command to spend is from “the good”. So the spending here is not restricted to spending money,
but it is anything that you can spend from the “good”. The “good” is what you have that you give
up sincerely to seek the Pleasure of Allah (swt). This could be your time, your effort, your food,
your home, or your transportation. All that we give up to seek the Pleasure of Allah (swt) is that
which is good. Then Allah (swt) lists the groups of people on whom we must spend. Allah (swt) says “it should be for parents, for near relatives, for orphans, for the Miskeen, and for the
travelers”
A question to ask ourselves here is that
why does not Allah (swt) tell us to spend on dawah and jihad? If dawah and jihad are so
important then why does Allah (swt) not mention them here? Why does Allah (swt) mention these
categories of people first? Is not the mission of this Ummah to spread the Message of Allah (swt)
to mankind? So should dawah and jihad have priority when it comes to spending for the way of
Allah (swt)? We believe the answer to these questions is that it is most important to take care of
those need in our own society first. Muslims care for all mankind but we should first make sure
that our own family and our own community is taken care of before we try to help others. So first
we should spend on our families, then we should spend on those who are most deprived and
most in need in our own community
In 2:216 We see in this ayah how Allah (swt) continues to prepare the Muslims for their role of
carrying His (swt)’s Message to mankind. In the previous ayah, Allah (swt) reminded the Muslims
how it was necessary to spend from their wealth. They should spend on their family, and their
relatives and those in need. Allah (swt) also reminded them how He (swt) Knows whatever they
spend of good and He (swt) Knows every good action that they do. But this task of carrying the
Message of Allah (swt) to mankind not only requires the sacrifice of wealth and resources but it
also requires fighting and warfare. It is to this aspect of carrying the Message to mankind that
Allah (swt) brings our attention to in this ayah. Allah (swt) begins this ayah by saying “Prescribed for you is fighting”. Allah (swt) obligated fighting for the Muslim community. The
fighting that Allah (swt) obligates has only two purposes. Either to defend the Muslims or to
remove the obstacles that prevent the Message of Allah (swt) from reaching mankind. These are
the only two reasons where it is permissible to fight. Allah (swt) then says “although it is disliked by you”. The vast majority of humans do not like fighting in battle. You have to leave the comfort and safety of your home, you have to part with your family whom you love, you often have to travel and make a journey to an unknown land.
You also have to leave your business, your trade or whatever obligation that you may have at
home. You also have to make great financial sacrifices So most humans, including you and me, do not like fighting. Allah (swt) acknowledges this fact in this ayah when He (swt) says about fighting that “it is disliked by you”. However in the next part of the ayah Allah (swt) says “But it may be that you hate a
thing and it is good for you and that you like a thing and it is bad for you”

We as human beings always need to remind ourselves how limited our knowledge is. We only know about the world what we can sense, we do not know anymore beyond that. Take fighting for example. You probably don’t like fighting, not only for the reasons cited above

but also you might think why should we kill other human beings. You do not like the idea of
killing another human being. But now suppose that human killed your entire family. Supposing he
brutally tortured your father or brother or son and he raped and ravaged your mother or sister or
wife or daughter. Would you still be hesitant about killing him after you can see the great evil that
he has done? Probably not. You should also realize that the ones whom Allah (swt) is asking you to fight have done a far greater evil than what we described above. They are preventing the
Message of Allah (swt) from reaching mankind. Can you even imagine a greater evil than that?
You love Allah (swt) the most so you should consider any injustice that is done against Him (swt)
to be even worse than any injustice that is done to your own family. These people have done
injustice to Allah (swt) by preventing His (swt)’s Message from reaching mankind and by
preventing His (swt)’s Law from being implemented in the land.
In 2:217 In the previous ayah we saw how Allah (swt) obligated the Muslims to fight in His (swt)’s
way. They had to fight to remove the obstacles that were preventing the Message of Allah (swt)
from reaching mankind. Allah (swt) told them that they had to fight even though they disliked
fighting and Allah (swt) reminded them that He (swt) Knows and they do not know.
Now when this ayah was revealed the worst of enemies for the Islamic State at that
period was the powerful tribe of Quraysh. They were the Prophet (saw)’s own tribe and they
rejected him (saw) even when they were certain that he (saw) was the Messenger of Allah (swt).
They were also the most powerful of tribes in the Arabian peninsula and they were also the tribe
that benefited the most from the status quo. So they were the ones who were the most opposed
to the Message of Allah (swt).

Now it so happened that Abdullah’s raiding party intercepted one of the trading
caravans belonging to Quraysh. They attacked the caravan, killing one of it’s guards and taking
the others as prisoners. They returned with the caravan and their prisoners back to Madinah.
However what Abdullah and his companions had failed to realize was that the night on which they
had attacked the caravan was a night of the Sacred Month of Rajab during which fighting and
killing was prohibited. So by mistake the Muslims had initiated a conflict and spilt blood during a
month in which fighting and killing was forbidden. These Muslims had accidentally violated the
sanctity of the sacred month. Now the enemies of Islam, including the Quraysh and the Jews,
used this opportunity to launch a propaganda campaign against the Muslims. They told everyone
how the Prophet (saw) and the Muslims had violated the sanctity of the Sacred Months. They
ignored the fact that this incident had happened by mistake and that it was only a few Muslims
who had actually done it. The ignored the fact that the majority of the Muslims were not involved
in this incident and they did not even support what had been done. They ignored the fact that the
Prophet (saw) himself was displeased with the actions of Abdullah and that he (saw) refused to
take the booty from the caravan that the Abdullah’s raiding party had captured. The enemies of
this Message did not care about all of this, they were only looking for an excuse to attack Islam.
They only wanted to portray Islam in a negative light so that they can drive as many people away
from it as they could.
They kept pressing this point and they made sure the whole world heard it. This was a very difficult episode for all of the Muslims; they were the victims of a vicious propaganda campaign that turned all of the Arabs against them. Everyone was talking about how the Muslims had violated the sanctity of the
sacred months. That was when Allah (swt) revealed this ayah

Allah (swt) says “They ask you about the Sacred Month and fighting in it”. Many
Muslims were unsure what to do in the situation that they had found themselves in it. They did not
know how to react to the propaganda and the lies that were coming from the enemies of Islam as
a result of this incident. They wondered if what Abdullah bin Jash and his companions had done
was as evil as how the enemies of this Message made it out to be. So they came to the Prophet
(saw) and they addressed their concerns to him (saw). Then Allah (swt) revealed this ayah in
response to their inquires.
Allah (swt) commands the Prophet (saw) to “Say “Fighting in it is a great sin”. First
Allah (swt) acknowledges that fighting in the Sacred Month is a great sin. It was Allah (swt) Who
had made the months sacred, and anyone who violates the Sacred Months violates what Allah
(swt) had made sacred. So we see that Allah (swt) does not absolve Abdullah bin Jash and his
companions completely. Allah (swt) shows them how what they had done was indeed a wrong
action, and Allah (swt) lets them know that they should have been more careful and made sure
that it was not the Sacred Month of Rajab before they initiated any fighting.
However in the next part of the ayah Allah (swt) exposes the reality of the situation and
He (swt) shows us how the evil ones really were. Allah (swt) says “but to block (people) from
the Path of Allah and to do kufr to Him, and (to block people) from the Masjid Al-Haram,
and to drive out its people from it, is a greater sin with Allah, and Fitna is worse than
killing”. This was what the Quraysh chiefs had done. They had done all of this. So how dare they
question the Muslims for committing an impious action when they had done the worst of actions?
They had blocked people from the Path of Allah (swt) by preventing this Message from reaching
the people. They had made all sorts of lies and fabrications about this Message so that the
people thought that this Message was evil without realizing that it was from Allah (swt). They had
also made kufr to Allah (swt). Recall how we said that this word means “to cover”. They had
covered the Truth of this Message when they knew that it was the Truth They had also done kufr
by covering all of the favors and blessings that Allah (swt) had bestowed on them. They also
blocked the Muslims from coming to the Masjid Al-Haram for Hajj and Umrah. How evil are a
people who would block the true worshippers of Allah (swt) from even coming to the House of
Allah (swt)? They had also driven the Prophet (saw) and the Muhajiroon out of Makkah. They
also caused great Fitna by forcing many Muslims to abandon their Din through oppression,
torture and persecution. This Fitna was far worse than killing because they were driving people
away from Allah (swt), What could be a greater evil than turning people away from Allah (swt)?
So even though Abdullah bin Jash and his companions had done wrong by fighting in the sacred
months, the Quraysh had done much greater wrong and so they had no right whatsoever to
criticize the Muslims in any way. Allah (swt) then says “And they will not stop fighting against you until they turn you away from your Din”. This is what they want to prevent at all costs because they want a society in which they can satisfy all of their lusts without any limits and they can exploit all of the people. They want a society in which they can sleep with their neighbor’s wife and they can take exuberant amounts of interest from the people. The only way of life that will outlaw these evil practices is this Din of
Islam. The enemies of this Message know this reality about the Din of Allah (swt), so they will do

everything they can to prevent it from gaining from supremacy. Furthermore they also know that
the strength of Islam does not come from the military capabilities of it’s armies or the resources of
it’s lands but rather the strength of Islam come from it’s people. So they will stop at nothing to turn
Muslims away from their Din.

We can see the same scenario playing out in the world today. The enemies of this
Message recognizes that Islam is the only threat remaining to their way of life. So they are trying
every way possible to turn Muslims away from their Din. They are making all kinds of false
propaganda about this Message. In addition to feeding this propaganda to the non-Muslims they
also feed it to the Muslims through the mass media. They make Muslims think that their Din is
one of barbarism and terror. They make Muslims think that their Din is outdated and not
compatible with a modern society
​

 

[AncientGlory]

yes that is the book i meant........i mentioned that book....in reference, if you remember....to you asking for proof of my claims that mostly the slaves & poor being the majority of Muslims in that period....

Ibn Kathir is a person who compiles hadiths yes...but this book references hadiths but is not based on it...rather on historical facts and findings....i do accept hadiths IF they comply with the Quran....

overall i never take the words of "Islamic scholars" seriously....especially when it comes to their famous hadiths....

You have to read the whole Quran to see the point....the quran nor God condones mindless physical violence....

if your talking abt modern day terrorists they fight for land and Palestine...not coz of the Quran or religion....

they do use the Quran to "boost moral" and use loosely constructed "hadiths" to drive and brain wash the masses....but every Muslim on earth condemns their violent acts and complete brainwashing of the poor, uneducated and desperate people to get what they want....

I guess we don't have that much to talk about this then. I disagree with some of your points but it does not mean your points are not valid. It seems that the way you look at things are unique. There aren't many muslims who look at things the same way. Having said that, I must say I do not agree when you say "every muslim condemns their violence act". I'd say some muslims like yourself condemn it.

 

[AncientGlory]

there is a historical story behind every verse of the quran.

I know this. There was an agenda behind my question. Before I ask about a verse from quran, most of the time I look at the history, story and hadiths related to that verse. I know perfectly well, the historical context behind the verse I mentioned. The reason I asked the question was to explore whether I_Love_SriLanka consider hadiths as authentic sources or not. Because some people does not. They only rely on quran.

and to get the idea of quran we need to take hadees as well.

This is what I believe as well. I think hadiths complete the meaning of the quran and to truely understand it hadiths are really important.

u mentioned that we dont consider as authontic which is totally wrong.

I mentioned diamonddrago does not consider hadiths as authentic sources. I was not talking about muslims as a whole. If you go back to the post you'll see I was addressing him.

so hadees and quran are to be consider important.

I agree.

do u know where prophet (SAW) born?
where he lived in is early ages?
after the prophet-hood why he migrated to madeena?
if prophet is the person who declared war going to the villages killing unarmed men why all the wars happened surround the area of madeena.(realize who came where to fight)so dont u see the self defense here?

If you are trying to make a point here, I must say your attempt is poor.

Prophet migrated to madeena because he was evicted meccans. But the verse I mentioned has nothing to do with a defensive act. I studied the historical background and hadiths before bringing it up. I'm not sure whether I have it wrong or your have it wrong. But it was clear to me that the verse I mentioned was spoken by Muhammad to his followers to motivate them in to raiding meccan caravans. I see no defensive act in it, it is offensive. Also it seems this was done during holy months where meccan merchants were not expecting an attack and were probably unarmed. The verse tallies perfectly with this historical background.

This story is long and continuing. But I'm just interested to know where I have made a mistake. It is possible because I use internet as my source. Please come forward with hadiths and other sources to explain relation between killing of unarmed muslims and the particular verse I mentioned.

 

[AncientGlory]

I hope you need a direct words which says islam is not violence, anyway I would like to give you the sequence and circumstances of versus in which it was revealed.this will help you to understand and clarify your questions. please read the below.

Thanks but I'm not looking for something like that. I'm just looking for your opinion on certain things, which is why I asked you several questions. I'm not interested in someone else's opinion that you take from the internet. I appreciate your effort. It was interesting. But I'd rather have YOU answer to my questions.

 

[diamonddrago]

I guess we don't have that much to talk about this then. I disagree with some of your points but it does not mean your points are not valid. It seems that the way you look at things are unique. There aren't many muslims who look at things the same way. Having said that, I must say I do not agree when you say "every muslim condemns their violence act". I'd say some muslims like yourself condemn it.

by using the line every Muslim on earth....i am merely pointing out that according to Islam....anyone who condones terrorist attacks.....particularly acts that kills the innocent civilians etc cannot be defined as a Muslim....

similarly i don't condone the actions of Israel or America and their blatant death combo they deal Palestinians.....do i support peaceful solutions to this as a Muslim i do.....can i condone the actions of these "freedom fighters"....as a Muslim i can't.....and mustn't....

but as a human being with emotions and temptations....i am guilty of feeling a lil sense of satisfaction knowing Israel and America are at least being made accountable in some fashion....but as a human i also cannot condone the death of innocence especially as i am a sri lankan who has lived his life under the LTTE.......

 

[I love Srilanka]

Thanks but I'm not looking for something like that. I'm just looking for your opinion on certain things, which is why I asked you several questions. I'm not interested in someone else's opinion that you take from the internet. I appreciate your effort. It was interesting. But I'd rather have YOU answer to my questions.

for your question it required me to put full history back ground. what u mean by my opinion,u never asked my opinion of any, but you surely had put some question as below, I really wonder,by looking your reply,that you were not looking for the answer as i provided though you asked some question which have to be replied in the context of history, even you had asked me in which way I reply u either in the history or general terms .have u read my answers? if you are not satisfied still,Now what is your question? and in which way u expect my answer.

(1) Why do you think ordaining fighting(Regardless its defensive or offensive) is not promoting violence?

(2) Where did you find the word defend? Where is the defensive act mentioned?

(3) What do you mean by right of "others"? Who are "others"?


What is the oppression and injustice you are talking about here? Is there a historical story to it? Or you are talking in general terms. Do you consider not allowing someone to worship their own religion as oppression and injustice?(Look below verse)

"Quran 2:217 > "They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing."

 

[sirajstc]

Explain Quran 2:216

Here is the Pickthal's translation.

Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

Misquoted Verse #1​

Qur’an 2:216 Jihad (holy fighting in God's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But God knows, and you know not.​

The first mistake in this translation is that this Qur’anic verse actually does not use the word “Jihad”. This verse actually uses the word “Qitaal”, which refers to physical fighting. Fighting is ordained for Muslims in order to defend themselves and their rights, as well as the rights of others. The obligation to physically defend one’s rights, and to establish justice was elaborated on in the previously mentioned article on Jihad. It is sufficient to quote a verse from the Qur’an in this regard:

4:75 And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help."
​

It is most certainly a duty of all human beings to help each other from oppression and injustice. This is what Islam teaches. Commenting on verse 2:216, Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:

To fight in the cause of Truth is one of the highest forms of charity. What can you offer that is more precious than your own life? But here again the limitations come in. If you are a mere brawler, or a selfish aggressive person, or a vainglorious bully, you deserve the highest censure. (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an, Text, Translation and Commentary ) ​

Therefore, the fighting ordained by God in the Qur'an is the fighting to establish justice and security in the land, and this is a duty upon all human beings. We will always hope for peace, but we must realize that without justice, freedom, rights and equity, peace will never be able to survive. Likewise, on verse 2:216, Abdul Majid Daryabadi writes:

War, it has been truly said, is sanctioned by the law of nature – the constitution of man and the constitution of society – and is at times a biological and sociological necessity. Islam, the ideal and practical religion has allowed it, but only in cases of sheer necessity. (Daryabadi, The Glorious Qur’an, emphasis added) ​

Islam has designated war as the last resort and only in cases of sheer necessity, in order for us to defend the rights of ourselves and others. Also, the picture becomes even more clear when we take into consideration the historical context of the revelation. Abdullah Yusuf Ali goes on to explain the historical context in his commentary on verse 2:217:

The intolerance and persecution of the Pagan clique at Mecca caused untold hardships to the holy Messenger of Islam and his early disciples. They bore all with meekness and long-suffering patience until the holy one permitted them to take up arms in self-defence… (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an, Text, Translation and Commentary ) ​

In light of the above quote, it becomes apparent that fighting has been especially ordained in conditions of severe persecution and hardship. Consequently, the Muslims are required to defend themselves from oppression and establish justice. To abstain from helping those under oppression is cowardice. Abdul Majid Daryabadi also explains the historical context of the verse:

Persecuted, harassed, afflicted, poverty-ridden, exiled, and small in number as the Muslims were at the time of the enactment of warfare, it was but natural that they were none too fond of crossing swords with the mighty forces that had conspired for their extirpation. Nothing short of express and emphatic Divine Command could urge them on to the field of battle [in order to defend their rights]. And yet the Islamic jihads are declared to be ‘designed by the Prophet to satisfy his discontented adherents by an accession of plunder!’ (Margoliouth). Such is this European scholar’s love of veracity! Such is his wonderful reading of history! (Daryabadi, The Glorious Qur’an)​

The commentary on this verse makes it very clear that Muslims have always understood this verse as the legal right to defend one’s rights from the forces of oppression, but never to transgress limits in defence.

 

[AncientGlory]

by using the line every Muslim on earth....i am merely pointing out that according to Islam....anyone who condones terrorist attacks.....particularly acts that kills the innocent civilians etc cannot be defined as a Muslim....

similarly i don't condone the actions of Israel or America and their blatant death combo they deal Palestinians.....do i support peaceful solutions to this as a Muslim i do.....can i condone the actions of these "freedom fighters"....as a Muslim i can't.....and mustn't....

but as a human being with emotions and temptations....i am guilty of feeling a lil sense of satisfaction knowing Israel and America are at least being made accountable in some fashion....but as a human i also cannot condone the death of innocence especially as i am a sri lankan who has lived his life under the LTTE.......

Ok I got what you meant to say. I too agree that violence in whatever form it is defined is wrong.

 

[AncientGlory]

edited.

 

[AncientGlory]

for your question it required me to put full history back ground. what u mean by my opinion,u never asked my opinion of any, but you surely had put some question as below, I really wonder,by looking your reply,that you were not looking for the answer as i provided though you asked some question which have to be replied in the context of history, even you had asked me in which way I reply u either in the history or general terms .have u read my answers? if you are not satisfied still,Now what is your question? and in which way u expect my answer.

(1) Why do you think ordaining fighting(Regardless its defensive or offensive) is not promoting violence?

(2) Where did you find the word defend? Where is the defensive act mentioned?

(3) What do you mean by right of "others"? Who are "others"?


What is the oppression and injustice you are talking about here? Is there a historical story to it? Or you are talking in general terms. Do you consider not allowing someone to worship their own religion as oppression and injustice?(Look below verse)

"Quran 2:217 > "They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing."

Just answer the three questions, in your OWN words if you can. Otherwise lets not waste time.

 

[AncientGlory]

Misquoted Verse #1​

Qur’an 2:216 Jihad (holy fighting in God's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But God knows, and you know not.​

The first mistake in this translation is that this Qur’anic verse actually does not use the word “Jihad”. This verse actually uses the word “Qitaal”, which refers to physical fighting. Fighting is ordained for Muslims in order to defend themselves and their rights, as well as the rights of others. The obligation to physically defend one’s rights, and to establish justice was elaborated on in the previously mentioned article on Jihad. It is sufficient to quote a verse from the Qur’an in this regard:

4:75 And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help."
​

It is most certainly a duty of all human beings to help each other from oppression and injustice. This is what Islam teaches. Commenting on verse 2:216, Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:

To fight in the cause of Truth is one of the highest forms of charity. What can you offer that is more precious than your own life? But here again the limitations come in. If you are a mere brawler, or a selfish aggressive person, or a vainglorious bully, you deserve the highest censure. (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an, Text, Translation and Commentary ) ​

Therefore, the fighting ordained by God in the Qur'an is the fighting to establish justice and security in the land, and this is a duty upon all human beings. We will always hope for peace, but we must realize that without justice, freedom, rights and equity, peace will never be able to survive. Likewise, on verse 2:216, Abdul Majid Daryabadi writes:

War, it has been truly said, is sanctioned by the law of nature – the constitution of man and the constitution of society – and is at times a biological and sociological necessity. Islam, the ideal and practical religion has allowed it, but only in cases of sheer necessity. (Daryabadi, The Glorious Qur’an, emphasis added) ​

Islam has designated war as the last resort and only in cases of sheer necessity, in order for us to defend the rights of ourselves and others. Also, the picture becomes even more clear when we take into consideration the historical context of the revelation. Abdullah Yusuf Ali goes on to explain the historical context in his commentary on verse 2:217:

The intolerance and persecution of the Pagan clique at Mecca caused untold hardships to the holy Messenger of Islam and his early disciples. They bore all with meekness and long-suffering patience until the holy one permitted them to take up arms in self-defence… (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an, Text, Translation and Commentary ) ​

In light of the above quote, it becomes apparent that fighting has been especially ordained in conditions of severe persecution and hardship. Consequently, the Muslims are required to defend themselves from oppression and establish justice. To abstain from helping those under oppression is cowardice. Abdul Majid Daryabadi also explains the historical context of the verse:

Persecuted, harassed, afflicted, poverty-ridden, exiled, and small in number as the Muslims were at the time of the enactment of warfare, it was but natural that they were none too fond of crossing swords with the mighty forces that had conspired for their extirpation. Nothing short of express and emphatic Divine Command could urge them on to the field of battle [in order to defend their rights]. And yet the Islamic jihads are declared to be ‘designed by the Prophet to satisfy his discontented adherents by an accession of plunder!’ (Margoliouth). Such is this European scholar’s love of veracity! Such is his wonderful reading of history! (Daryabadi, The Glorious Qur’an)​

The commentary on this verse makes it very clear that Muslims have always understood this verse as the legal right to defend one’s rights from the forces of oppression, but never to transgress limits in defence.

Thanks.

 

[nasam]

Great post siraj

 

[sirajstc]

Thanks.

Welcome Bro!

Great post siraj

Thx Bro!

 

[I love Srilanka]

Just answer the three questions, in your OWN words if you can. Otherwise lets not waste time.

I hope You haven't yet read my answer.answers was there for your all query in that para, I thought you will understand.you are not as always.still it is my responsibility to give you the answer for your query in short.

01-Of course Quran not promoting violence,if you read that para, you would have not asked for the same.actually there was a group called Quraish they were against prophet and his followers, they insulted and prohibited people in entering the islam.they were threatening the prophet and his followers for passing the God message to people.So that Allah revealed the quran saying that fight against them, in next verse he is saying fighting is better than having oppressed by them.

02- To understand something you don't need a direct word as defend there, even by context we can understand.

03-Whose rights, of course for Muslims rights.

you asked whether it is upon history or general terms need to decided, It was clear those versus not in general , but was revealed to the muslims for an action against the oppression.

Brother Now what is your comment? still you will stick with your comment of Quran is violence if So, why?

 

[brave]

I know this. There was an agenda behind my question. Before I ask about a verse from quran, most of the time I look at the history, story and hadiths related to that verse. I know perfectly well, the historical context behind the verse I mentioned. The reason I asked the question was to explore whether I_Love_SriLanka consider hadiths as authentic sources or not. Because some people does not. They only rely on quran.

i dont agree in telling that some consider hadith as not authentic.all the muslims following it.there is a contradition among muslims about the authentisity only on some hadees.so i think u misunderstood.other than that there is no problem.a muslim should follow the quran and hadees.quran orders to pray.but the way of praying is explains by hadees only.


I mentioned diamonddrago does not consider hadiths as authentic sources. I was not talking about muslims as a whole. If you go back to the post you'll see I was addressing him.



i think better he reply regard this.so diamonddrago can u clear this doubt here?

If you are trying to make a point here, I must say your attempt is poor.

Prophet migrated to madeena because he was evicted meccans. But the verse I mentioned has nothing to do with a defensive act. I studied the historical background and hadiths before bringing it up. I'm not sure whether I have it wrong or your have it wrong. But it was clear to me that the verse I mentioned was spoken by Muhammad to his followers to motivate them in to raiding meccan caravans. I see no defensive act in it, it is offensive. Also it seems this was done during holy months where meccan merchants were not expecting an attack and were probably unarmed. The verse tallies perfectly with this historical background.

This story is long and continuing. But I'm just interested to know where I have made a mistake. It is possible because I use internet as my source. Please come forward with hadiths and other sources to explain relation between killing of unarmed muslims and the particular verse I mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_before_Medina
According to the Muslim tradition, Muhammad began receiving revelations at the age of 40. The key themes of Muhammad's message in Mecca were generosity towards the poor. Although some converted,many others (especially the tribal leaders) opposed, ridiculed and eventually boycotted his clan, and his followers were harassed, tortured and forced into exile. Several attempts were made on his life[1][2] When his uncle and chief protector, Abu Talib, who was the head of the clan of Banu Hashim died, Muhammad migrated to Yathrib in 622, where many had converted and agreed to help and assist him.(i copied this from wikipedia which shows the torture and the death threat to prophet muhammed)
http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/persecution-of-muslims-by-the-meccans/list-of-specific-recorded-instances.html
he migrated to madina when the qureish planned ti kill him that night.he kept the sahaba Ali in his place and secretly migrated to madina with his companion Abu Bakkar Siddik raliyellahu anhu.

i dont knw the exact hadees of the quran verses u mentioned.anyway i had asked regard that from a known person and i will try post the real history behind that inshaallah.and i AM 10000% suer that prophet or the quran never encourage to just kill or harm a innocent.so as u are telling its not about what u are telling.

 

[AncientGlory]

still it is my responsibility to give you the answer for your query in short.

Thanks.

01-Of course Quran not promoting violence,if you read that para, you would have not asked for the same.

Lets forget the quran for a moment. My question was

(1) Why do you think ordaining fighting(Regardless its defensive or offensive) is not promoting violence?

actually there was a group called Quraish they were against prophet and his followers, they insulted and prohibited people in entering the islam.they were threatening the prophet and his followers for passing the God message to people.So that Allah revealed the quran saying that fight against them, in next verse he is saying fighting is better than having oppressed by them.

Please come up with your sources. Then we can understand things better without questioning the authenticity of this story.

02- To understand something you don't need a direct word as defend there, even by context we can understand.

However the the physical violence is directly mentioned there. It says you must fight. So you saying defense is how you understand it, since it is not directly mentioned. There's no way to say what the act is right? By researching through some of the hadiths, I found that this particular verse was spoken by Muhammad to motivate muslims to raid meccan caravans.

03-Whose rights, of course for Muslims rights.

That's what I thought. One might get a different idea that when you say 'others', you were talking about all humans. Of course that is not the case.

you asked whether it is upon history or general terms need to decided, It was clear those versus not in general , but was revealed to the muslims for an action against the oppression.

Thanks for bringing this up. This leads to another question I asked which was not answered.

What is the oppression and injustice you are talking about here? Is there a historical story to it? Or you are talking in general terms. Do you consider not allowing someone to worship their own religion as oppression and injustice?(Look below verse)

"Quran 2:217 > "They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing."

Brother Now what is your comment? still you will stick with your comment of Quran is violence if So, why?

Obviously I think it is clear to you that we have not resolved anything yet. So my argument stays the same. To sum up what I was trying to say, here are my points.

(1) Quran 2:216 does not talk about any defensive act directly. However SOME Muslims think it(2:216) talks about defending themselves in means of physical violence.

(2)The direct meaning of the verse(Ordaining fighting) implies a means of promoting violence.

(4) However since there is a dispute to understand the true meaning of the verse, we can look at the historical background of the verse.
The story it seems is that the verse was used as a way to motivate muslims to raid meccan caravans. This shows no defensive act but an offensive behaviour.

(4) Therefore it still seems to that quran is promoting violence.

 

[AncientGlory]

i dont agree in telling that some consider hadith as not authentic.all the muslims following it.there is a contradition among muslims about the authentisity only on some hadees.so i think u misunderstood.other than that there is no problem.a muslim should follow the quran and hadees.quran orders to pray.but the way of praying is explains by hadees only.

I don't see what the misunderstanding is. I've talked with some muslims(all over the world) who do not take hadiths seriously. They rely only on quran. I just wanted to know which one of you is in which group. What is the misunderstanding???

i dont knw the exact hadees of the quran verses u mentioned.anyway i had asked regard that from a known person and i will try post the real history behind that inshaallah.and i AM 10000% suer that prophet or the quran never encourage to just kill or harm a innocent.so as u are telling its not about what u are telling.

Good. I too hope I am wrong. Hope you'd get an answer from him soon.

In the meantime this is one of the Hadeeths that I found is relevant to the verse and muslim raiding of meccan caravans. Maybe you can use it as a reference point to study all the hadeeths relevant to the verse. I will also try to find all of it so that we can build the story accurately.

When the Apostle heard about Abu Sufyan coming from Syria, he summoned the Muslims and said, “This is the Quraish caravan containing their property. Go out to attack it, perhaps Allah will give it as a prey.” (Ibn Ishaq 428)

 

[brave]

I don't see what the misunderstanding is. I've talked with some muslims(all over the world) who do not take hadiths seriously. They rely only on quran. I just wanted to know which one of you is in which group. What is the misunderstanding???

no way a muslim can tell that he dont believe in hadees.even the shia's.there may be some sort of differentiation in some hadees coz some think sahi hadees(proved 100% correct) as false hadees and some think false hadees as 100% correct.other than that there is no way a muslim can omit this.quran gives the guidence and hadees explains.in quran its mentioned to pray and hadees are explaining the time&method.so the muslims u saw following the sunnah but they didnt know it.

Good. I too hope I am wrong. Hope you'd get an answer from him soon.

In the meantime this is one of the Hadeeths that I found is relevant to the verse and muslim raiding of meccan caravans. Maybe you can use it as a reference point to study all the hadeeths relevant to the verse. I will also try to find all of it so that we can build the story accurately.

When the Apostle heard about Abu Sufyan coming from Syria, he summoned the Muslims and said, “This is the Quraish caravan containing their property. Go out to attack it, perhaps Allah will give it as a prey.” (Ibn Ishaq 428)

u mentioned this as an hadees.but it is not.Ibn Isham is not an Imam.he was an historian and there are many mistakes which contradict with hadees.
http://answering-christian-claims.com/The-Problems-With-Ibn-Ishaq.html

this link is about battle Badr
http://www.al-islam.org/history/history/badr.html