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Message: <blockquote data-quote="nipund" data-source="post: 31498071" data-attributes="member: 31353">1.  we are talking about something that we can not verify our selves . we have to trust Buddha or someone for the interpretation . generally this is true for abidharma.2. although we talk about rupa , wedana ,sangna ,sankara , wingnana separetly they do not arise separately . all or non. (non linear)3. not an expert on abidharma. but upadana skanda is not there in arahat chitta / sith so disagree on "skandas/upadanaskandas are the same". agree that pruthakjana sith will be upadana skanda .4. start and end , this is linear thinking . first skanda then upadana. try to see it in non linear way. it happens together. like when we go some where distance from our starting place increase in same way distance to our location reduces.5. I think  all "santiirna, vottapana, etc cittas. Inside javanas " are types of sith . they are given names according to the state sith or action thet accomplish. sith= experience = panchaskanda i would like refer to a earlier discussion . experience is not limited to what we persive . it is everything. conscious + subconscious.</blockquote>

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