[Splited] Free-will

[ela_eluwa120]

This is splited from Y2K's thread RE: Lord Buddha's arguments against GOD

An interesting treatise about free-will...
I first decided to post this as a reply in Y2K's thread. But, then changed my mind because his topic is different...

Extracted from "Is God a Taoist" from Raymond M. Smullyan
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MORTAL: And therefore, O God, I pray thee, if thou hast one ounce of mercy for this thy suffering creature, absolve me of having to have free will!

GOD: You reject the greatest gift I have given thee?

MORTAL: How can you call that which was forced on me a gift? I have free will, but not of my own choice. I have never freely chosen to have free will. I have to have free will, whether I like it or not.

GOD: Why would you wish not to have free will?

MORTAL: Because free will means moral responsibility, and moral responsibility is more than I can bear.

GOD: Why do you find moral responsibility so unbearable?

MORTAL: Why? I honestly can’t analyze why; all I know is that I do.

GOD: All right, in that case suppose I absolve you from all moral responsibility, but still leave you with free will. Will this be satisfactory?

MORTAL: (after a pause): No, I am afraid not.

GOD: Ah, just as I thought! So moral responsibility is not the only aspect of free will to which you object. What else about free will is bothering you?

MORTAL: With free will I am capable of sinning and I don’t want to sin!

GOD: If you don’t want to sin, then why do you?

MORTAL: Good God! I don't know why I sin, I just do! Evil temptations come along, and try as I can, I cannot resist them.

GOD: If it is really true that you cannot resist them, then you are not sinning of your own free will and hence (at least according to me) not sinning at all.

MORTAL: No, no! I keep feeling that if only I tried harder I could avoid sinning. I understand that the will is infinite. If one wholeheartedly wills not to sin, then one won’t.

GOD: Well now, you should know. Do you try as hard as you can to avoid sinning or don’t you?

MORTAL: I honestly don’t know! At the time, I feel am trying as hard as I can, but in retrospect, I am worried that maybe I didn’t.

GOD: So in other words, you really don’t know whether or not you have been sinning. So the possibility is open that you haven’t been sinning at all!

MORTAL: Of course this possibility is open, but maybe I have been sinning, and this thought is what so frightens me!

GOD: Why does the thought of sinning frighten you?

MORTAL: I don’t know why! For one thing, you do have a reputation for making out rather gruesome punishments in the afterlife!

 

[ela_eluwa120]

GOD: Oh, that’s what’s bothering you! Why didn’t you say so in the first place instead of all this peripheral talk about free will and responsibility? Why didn’t you simply request me not to punish you for any of your sins?

MORTAL: I think I am realistic enough to know that you would hardly grant such a request!

GOD: You don’t say! You have a realistic knowledge of what requests I will grant, eh? Well, I’ll tell you what I’m going to do! I will grant you a very, very special dispensation to sin as much as you like, and I will give you my divine word of honour that I will never punish you for it in the least. Agreed?

MORTAL: (in great terror) No, no, don’t do that!

GOD: Why not? Don’t you trust my divine word?

MORTAL: Of course I do! But don’t you see, I don’t want to sin! I have an utter abhorrence of sinning, quite apart from any punishments it may entail.

GOD: In that case, I’ll go one better. I’ll remove your abhorrence of sinning. Here is a magic pill Just swallow it, and you will lose all abhorrence of sinning. You will joyfully and merrily sin away, you will have no regrets, no abhorrence and I still promise you will never be punished by me, or by yourself, or by any source whatever. You will be blissful for all eternity. So here is the pill!

MORTAL: No. no!

GOD: Are you not being irrational? I am removing your abhorrence for sin, which is your last obstacle.

MORTAL: I still won’t take it.

GOD: Why not?

MORTAL: I believe that the pill will indeed remove my future abhorrence for sin, but my present abhorrence is enough to prevent me from being willing to take it.

GOD: I command that you take it!

MORTAL: I refuse!

GOD: What, you refuse of your own free will?

MORTAL: Yes!

GOD: So it seems that your free will comes in pretty handy, doesn’t it?

MORTAL: I don’t understand!

GOD: Are you not glad now that you have the free will to refuse such a ghastly offer? How would you like it if I forced you to take this pill, whether you wanted it or not?

MORTAL: No, no! Please don’t!

GOD: Of course I won’t; I’m just trying to illustrate a point. All right, let me put it this way. Instead of forcing you to take the pill, suppose I grant your original prayer of removing your free will – but with the understanding that the moment you are no longer free, then you will take the pill.

 

[ela_eluwa120]

MORTAL: Once my will is gone, how could I possibly choose to take the pill?

GOD: I did not say you would choose it; I merely said you would take it. You would act, let us say according to purely deterministic laws which are such that you would as a matter of fact take it.

MORTAL: I still refuse.

GOD: So you refuse my offer to remove your free will. This is rather different from your original prayer isn’t it?

MORTAL: Now I see what you are up to. Your argument is ingenious, but I’m not sure it is really correct. There are some points we will have to go over again.

GOD: Certainly.

MORTAL: There are two things you said which seem contradictory to me. First you said that one cannot sin unless one does so of one’s own free will. But then you said that you would give me a pill which would deprive me of my own free will, and then I could sin as much as I liked. But if I no longer had free will, then, according to your first statement, how could I be capable of sinning?

GOD: You are confusing two separate parts of our conversations. I never said the pill would deprive you of your free will, but only that it would remove your abhorrence of sinning.

MORTAL: I’m afraid I’m a bit confused.

GOD: All right, then let us make a fresh start. Suppose I agree to remove your free will, but with the understanding that you will then commit an enormous number of acts which you now regard as sinful. Technically speaking you will not then be sinning since you will not be doing these acts of your own free will. And these acts will carry no moral responsibility, nor moral culpability, nor any punishment whatsoever. Nevertheless, these acts will all be of the type which you presently regard as sinful; they will all have this quality which you presently feel as abhorrent, but your abhorrence will disappear; so you will not then feel abhorrence toward the acts.

MORTAL: No, I have present abhorrence toward the acts, and this present abhorrence is sufficient to prevent me from accepting your proposal.


GOD: Hm! So let me get this absolutely straight. I take it you no longer wish me to remove your free will.

MORTAL: (reluctantly): No, I guess not.

GOD: All right, I agree not to. But I am still not exactly clear as to why you no longer wish to be rid of your free will. Please tell me again.

MORTAL: Because, as you have told me, without free will I would sin even more than I do now.

GOD: But I have already told you that without free will you cannot sin.

MORTAL: But If I choose now to be rid of free will, then all my subsequent actions will be sins, not of the future, but of the present moment in whch I choose not to have free will.

GOD: Sounds like you are pretty badly trapped, doesn’t it?

MORTAL: Of course I am trapped! You have placed me in a hideous double bind. Now whatever I do is wrong. If I retain free will, I will continue to sin, and if I abandon free will (with your help, of course), I will now be sinning in so doing.

GOD: But by the same token, you place me in a double blind. I am willing to leave you free will or remove it as you choose, ut neither alternative satisfies you. I wish to help you, but it seems I cannot.

MORTAL: True!

GOD: But since it is not my fault, why are you still angry with me?

MORTAL: For having placed me in such a horrible predicament in the first place!

GOD: But, according to you, there is nothing satisfactory I could have done.

MORTAL: You mean there is nothing satisfactory you can do now, but that does not mean that there is nothing you could have done.

GOD: Why? What could I have done?

MORTAL: Obviously you should never have given me free will in the first place. Now that you have given it to me, it is too late – anything I do will be bad. But you should never have given it to me in the first place.

GOD: Oh, that’s it! Why would it have been better had I never given it to you?

MORTAL: Because then I never would have been capable of sinning at all.

GOD: Well, I’m always glad to learn from my mistakes.

MORTAL: What!

 

[ela_eluwa120]

GOD: I know, that sounds sort of blasphemous, doesn’t it? It almost involves a logical paradox! On the one hand, as you have been taught, it is morally wrong for any sentient being to claim that I am capable of making mistakes. On the other hand, I have the right to do anything. But I am also a sentient being. So the question is, Do I do or do I not have the right to claim that I am capable of making mistakes?

MORTAL: That is a bad joke! One of your premises is simply false. I have not been taught that it is wrong for any sentient being to doubt your

Omniscience, but only for a mortal to doubt it. But since you are not mortal, then you are obviously free from this injunction.

GOD: Good, so you realize this on a rational level. Nevertheless, you did appear shocked when I said “I am always glad to learn from my mistakes.”


MORTAL: Of course I was shocked. I was shocked not by your self-blasphemous (as you jokingly called it), not by the fact that you had no right to say it, but just by the fact that you did say it, since I have been taught that as a matter of fact you don’t make mistakes. So I was amazed that you claimed that it is possible for you to make mistakes.

GOD: I have not claimed that it is possible. All I am saying is that if I made mistakes, I will be happy to learn from them. But this says nothing about whether the if has or ever can be realized.

MORTAL: Let’s please stop quibbling about this point. Do you or do you not admit it was a mistake to haven given me free will?

GOD: Well now, this is precisely what I propose we should investigate. Let me review your present predicament. You don’t want to have free will because with free will you can sin, and you don’t want to sin. (Though I still find this puzzling; in a way you must want to sin, or you wouldn’t. But let this pass for now.) On the other hand, if you agreed to give up free will, then you would now be responsible for the acts of the future. Ergo, I should never have given you free will in the first place.

MORTAL: Exactly!

GOD: I understand exactly how you feel. Many mortals -- even some theologians – have complained that I have been unfair in that it was I, not they, who decided that they should have free will and since then I hold them responsible for their actions. In other words, they feel that they are expected to live up to a contract with me which they never agreed to in the first place.