The Question of Vegetarianism

[monson]

ee kale wee pedurakwath wela ganna berilu, mokada rahathan wahansela irdhi balayen ahasin gaman karana nisa hewanella wetenawalu polowata

 

[pini binduwa]

ai oyata sure nedda..?

 

[monson]

ai oyata sure nedda..?

Nice jokes

 

[nad253]

lolzz

 

[pini binduwa]

Nice jokes

are you a buddhist...?

 

[monson]

are you a buddhist...?

I don't follow religions./I am not a fan of organized religions/ I don't believe in so called "GOD"s. But I agree with many ideas of Buddhism and I think most of Christianity is dumb and stupid and Islam is babarian and I hate Islam.

 

[pini binduwa]

I don't follow religions./I am not a fan of organized religions/ I don't believe in so called "GOD"s. But I agree with many ideas of Buddhism and I think most of Christianity is dumb and stupid and Islam is babarian and I hate Islam.

wow, but the reality does not depend on the belief of peoples,

If some thing is a truth, it is the truth.. It never changes on believes of peoples..

 

[aye_sha90]

If we thought better about the Lord Budhdha's teachings, it would appears clear that the he had never asked his followers to abstain frm meat.

Lord Budhdha infact, pointed out that accepting meat which people offered is not a kharma if that animal was not slaughterd for that offer.
but...If so, he should refuse it ...


MY 4000TH POST

 

[uhox]

but if we eat only the vegitarian foods
how our body can get the needy proteins...

particularly the "Amino acids"

please explain?

 

[uhox]

I don't follow religions./I am not a fan of organized religions/ I don't believe in so called "GOD"s. But I agree with many ideas of Buddhism and I think most of Christianity is dumb and stupid and Islam is babarian and I hate Islam.

relatively a materialistic view point ...
am I right?

but hating a relgion is a not good ,I think..
We must hate the Islam extremism (the fascist islamism)

 

[nadeeshaF]

relatively a materialistic view point ...
am I right?

but hating a relgion is a not good ,I think..
We must hate the Islam extremism (the fascist islamism)

Uhox, you don'd understand.

The Islam extremism we see is a direct result of what is said in the Quran. Holy war, killing non-believers, killing those that object Islam, etc., were recommended in the quaran, and practiced by Mohammed himself. So you can't separate extremism from the rest of Islam. Extremists are doing what they believe to be right and acting upon Allah's law.

 

[uhox]

Uhox, you don'd understand.

The Islam extremism we see is a direct result of what is said in the Quran. Holy war, killing non-believers, killing those that object Islam, etc., were recommended in the quaran, and practiced by Mohammed himself. So you can't separate extremism from the rest of Islam. Extremists are doing what they believe to be right and acting upon Allah's law.

agree with you

 

[alagakkonara]

Yes as far as "Paanathi Paatha" is concerned, you cannot Sin just because you picked up a chicken at the supermarket!

You may say because we buy... and to fill that demand there's someone is killing on the other side.. BUT... killer has a mind too... he is human and he can decide for himself, he has a choice NOT to kill... but instead he gets greedy for money and kill so its his choice!!

Personally.. if I cannot find chicken meat anywhere I wont never ever think about killing a live one and eat... which I just can't do!!

I cannot agree with this, if the chicken you buy in the market is not killed for you, then for whom is it killed?. Allowing some one to kill for you is same as killing.

Also can you please tell me where we find these five conditions that need to be fulfilled for it to be a killing(the one's you mention)?. I cant remember in which part of dhamma its from.

 

[sri_lion]

I cannot agree with this, if the chicken you buy in the market is not killed for you, then for whom is it killed?. Allowing some one to kill for you is same as killing..

Well... if that's the case then the whole supermarket full of meat is killed for me, so I'm guilty for all that?

Or are you asking because I buy that I'm guilty too? how so? Its not like I'm forcing someone to kill for me.. its just another source of nutrition for me.. personally for me it tastes better and nutrtious and its already there.. so I buy it... if its not there then I'll switch to the next best alternative, I have no thought of killing at the time of buying.... so can it become a SIN?

Also can you please tell me where we find these five conditions that need to be fulfilled for it to be a killing(the one's you mention)?. I cant remember in which part of dhamma its from.

Sorry can't help you here bro... becasuse these are things you suppose to learn from School, Dahampaasal etc. and quite frequently they discuss in "Dhamma Deshana" too.. if you really need to clerify maybe you can visit your nearest temple and ask the "Haamuduruwo" about this!

 

[sherlock]

wow sha niyama adahasak thamai

 

[alagakkonara]

Well... if that's the case then the whole supermarket full of meat is killed for me, so I'm guilty for all that?

Or are you asking because I buy that I'm guilty too? how so? Its not like I'm forcing someone to kill for me.. its just another source of nutrition for me.. personally for me it tastes better and nutrtious and its already there.. so I buy it... if its not there then I'll switch to the next best alternative, I have no thought of killing at the time of buying.... so can it become a SIN?



Sorry can't help you here bro... becasuse these are things you suppose to learn from School, Dahampaasal etc. and quite frequently they discuss in "Dhamma Deshana" too.. if you really need to clerify maybe you can visit your nearest temple and ask the "Haamuduruwo" about this!

Sory for the late reply.

You missed out my point I think, what I say is that if the chicken you buy is killed for you, not that all the chicken are killed for you. What are you saying? If you are saying those animals are not killed for you, then everyone will say the same thing. So those animals are killed for no one?

Actually machan I have met many ppl that say the same thing you say. what I say is this. The animal you buy from a shop is killed just for you. For No one else but you. If you stop eating meat, at least that animal will be saved. Coz if everyone in the world stop eating meat obviously animals will not be killed for meat right?. So yes even if your contribution is small, you just eat one animal per week, still that animal is killed for you.

Dont wory about those five conditions, I just cant remember and thought you might enlighten me. Anyway tell me your idea. In my opinion buying something killed and eating it is as same as killing it and eating it.

 

[sri_lion]

Sory for the late reply.

No probs, I work too

You missed out my point I think, what I say is that if the chicken you buy is killed for you, not that all the chicken are killed for you. What are you saying? If you are saying those animals are not killed for you, then everyone will say the same thing. So those animals are killed for no one?

Actually machan I have met many ppl that say the same thing you say. what I say is this. The animal you buy from a shop is killed just for you. For No one else but you. If you stop eating meat, at least that animal will be saved. Coz if everyone in the world stop eating meat obviously animals will not be killed for meat right?. So yes even if your contribution is small, you just eat one animal per week, still that animal is killed for you.

Dont wory about those five conditions, I just cant remember and thought you might enlighten me. Anyway tell me your idea. In my opinion buying something killed and eating it is as same as killing it and eating it.

This is where I like Buddhism most... always open for discussions!

Yes I think I get your point, and I think this is the most common way of thinking about this issue! That you eat so you are part of it... this is to a certain extent is logical, I'm not saying no....upto the extend that you are encouraging it! But according to Buddhism... I dont see how encouraging full fill the SIN of Paanathi Paatha, unless the other conditions are met!

Yes it is killed for me, but it is killed with the assumption that I will buy it, I may or may not decide to buy it too, so the person who killed the animal is killing the animal on the assumption that someone will buy it! The killer at the time of killing.... he does it assuming that I will buy, if lets say I order him directly then he kill the animal it would have been a different case!

Ok! lets take this scenario... lets say... all humans on earth are vegetarians.. so one fine day I kill a chicken and decide to eat... and after consuming the meat..I get the thought, “Hey! This could be good business, if this tastes good for me then it should taste good for others too” So ASSUMING that others will buy.. I kill more chicken and sell, So the SIN already has come full circle for me by the time the product reached my customer! Isn't this what might have happened? and still happening?

And it is undeniable that it is more easier to stop it from the source than the end point... are we going to stop millions Sri Lankans and billions of world population eating chicken or we just begin from where the killing starts? which are much lesser in numbers than that?

At the time of buying this animal, I just have the thought of buying food... if I'm sinned (for a thought) because I buy dead meat even if I think it is food, so it should be the same for those people who refrain from buying dead meat but instead buy *vegetarian-chicken (soya)* because then the same logic applies and its the thought that does matters then.... we both buying because we want something chicken taste!

What do you think?

 

[nadeeshaF]

Sory for the late reply.

You missed out my point I think, what I say is that if the chicken you buy is killed for you, not that all the chicken are killed for you. What are you saying? If you are saying those animals are not killed for you, then everyone will say the same thing. So those animals are killed for no one?

Actually machan I have met many ppl that say the same thing you say. what I say is this. The animal you buy from a shop is killed just for you. For No one else but you. If you stop eating meat, at least that animal will be saved. Coz if everyone in the world stop eating meat obviously animals will not be killed for meat right?. So yes even if your contribution is small, you just eat one animal per week, still that animal is killed for you.

Dont wory about those five conditions, I just cant remember and thought you might enlighten me. Anyway tell me your idea. In my opinion buying something killed and eating it is as same as killing it and eating it.

But the criteria of "motive" has to be met for anything to qualify as sin, according to Buddhism. A person buying chicken off the counter (I'm not defending meat eating here), does not carry a motive to kill a chicken. Hence you can't consider it a sin, similar to the time you trod on an ant and kill it unknowigly. Not motive = no sin.

I'm only going as far as clarifying this from the Buddhist perspective, does not mean to say that I condone eating chicken, nor arguing over whether it is right or wrong.

 

[alagakkonara]

No probs, I work too

This is where I like Buddhism most... always open for discussions!

Yes I think I get your point, and I think this is the most common way of thinking about this issue!

You are wrong here bro, this is not the most common way of thinking. Instead its just the opposite. The most common way of thinking is 'ok since this animal is not killed for me its ok to eat it.' Most buddhist I meet think like that. So I think that is the most common way of thinking. But maybe most people you meet think the other way around...

Anyway thats not our discussion.

Ok! lets take this scenario... lets say... all humans on earth are vegetarians.. so one fine day I kill a chicken and decide to eat... and after consuming the meat..I get the thought, “Hey! This could be good business, if this tastes good for me then it should taste good for others too” So ASSUMING that others will buy.. I kill more chicken and sell, So the SIN already has come full circle for me by the time the product reached my customer! Isn't this what might have happened? and still happening?

I cannot agree with this, There's nothing to assume here, whether he assume or not, he will kill for others, Only if others are willing to buy that from himAnd he will continue to kill as long as there is the demand.

And clearly this is not what might have happened. what happend was that man always knew meat was something good to eat. Early man was a hunter. But it came to a time where killing is not neccessary. Buddha saw that killing is bad, and discouraged any activity related to it. To survive man does not need meat.
Buddha pointed this with one of his simplest teachings, pansil.

But to the man, or buddhist who could not understand this and who has eaten meat and just couldnt get himself to get rid of that habit of eating dead animals(probably because they are tasty) had to justify his actions. So that's why people bring up all this things about "buddha never said eating meet was bad " " Buddha ate some sort of a food made from meat(Sukara Maggawa) before he died" and all.

Let me point out some facts.

(1) In pansil first sil is "I will not kill others"
(2) In 'Arya ashtangika margaya' If we think about 'Samma Ajeewa'
buddha points out,
5 jobs that should not be done, and in this
1. Do not sell meat.
2. Do not sell animals/slaves ( I cant remember exaclty bro)
(3) Buddha always says wish others well ( 'Mithree')

And I may bring up some other points later when I remember... Anyway my point is buddha being wise and all saying all this never excpeted a buddhist will ever think that he said eating meet is ok.

How can you wish 'mithree' to all the animals and then eat it? What is the logic in that. Machan I have thought these things over and over through many years.I have raise my questions discussed with many wise poeple. I have come to the logical conclusion that, budhhist just try to justify whatever bad thing they do. Thinking logically I cannot think that buddha would ever encourage a killing in anyway. But people who want to justify what they do just make reasons. such as something illogical as eating meat is ok.

just foget buddhism, or what buddha said, just think out of box. If anyone had ever watched "Faces of Death" he would never eat meat again. Religion or no religion, how can one bear a poor animal being killed, taken the right to live away as if we have the right. Who are we? If eating meat is essential for us to live, I would be the first one to say its ok. But its not. And its wrong.

That's why I asked you where, those five conditions are from, To me either its a contradiction in buddha said or I did not understand what it is.

And it is undeniable that it is more easier to stop it from the source than the end point... are we going to stop millions Sri Lankans and billions of world population eating chicken or we just begin from where the killing starts? which are much lesser in numbers than that?

Again I disagree, In fact this is a point with no logic at all in my opinion. But if I'm wrong forgive me. Are you suggesting that people who do the killing should just stop? That's never gonna happen. The easiest way is that people who eat meat if they understand its wrong stopping it. Or if they dont understand thats also ok. What you do is for you, not for anyone else. But dont just justify your selves in front of the alter of buddhism. Coz its nothing in buddhism, its just you.

What do you think bro? Maybe I'm wrong but that's why I' m here for. To learn what I dont know and be a better person.

 

[alagakkonara]

But the criteria of "motive" has to be met for anything to qualify as sin, according to Buddhism. A person buying chicken off the counter (I'm not defending meat eating here), does not carry a motive to kill a chicken. Hence you can't consider it a sin, similar to the time you trod on an ant and kill it unknowigly. Not motive = no sin.

I'm only going as far as clarifying this from the Buddhist perspective, does not mean to say that I condone eating chicken, nor arguing over whether it is right or wrong.

Please read my reply to Sri_lion and give your ideas. I think maybe I have given some points that you might find interesting.