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Unusual Jihad
- Thread starter ela_eluwa120
- Start date
Read before you copy paste like a machine!
This is Precocious puberty
These are signs ONLY, do you understand the difference between the signs and the real thing?
Ok lets say 5 year old had a baby, however freak it may sound.. the qualification for getting married is only puberty? How about the psychological aspect do you think a year 5 old is ready to get married just because she can get pregnant?
It is there in Hadith that Aisha was playing with dolls when Mohommad married her... Aisha was 9 Mohommad 50 (IIRC) that's 40+ years of difference!
The cycle begins again , Ive told u in the thread before why 'your doll perception' is not a yardstick to measure 'maturity' . There are enough 'perceived' adult women of todays world well into their 20s who have teddy bears of all sorts in the room ! If you say thats alright then thats being double standard !
You are viewing the 9 year of today and yesteryears in the same light ! There is a vast difference of women of today and before. Even if you take our grandmothers and women of today , the women of earlier times were a lot more mature , they became mothers at a much younger age than what you see in todays society ! They took on LIFE at a much younger age than women of today.They didnt grow up watching cartoons and eating cornflakes !
Like the link mentioned
'Even in our times in certain parts of the world the age of marriage is still relatively low. According to a chart on (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent#Ages_of_consent_in_various_countries ) the age of consent in Mexico and Philippines is only 12. In Guyana, Japan, South Korea, Spain and Swaziland the age of consent is 13. Hence even in ?Today's Times' a young marriage is not abnormal, as some in the west think.
Should the people of United Kingdom, where the age limit is higher, be correct in slandering the people of Philippines/Mexico where the age limit is much lower and thus married at young age? Of course not! Or if within few centuries the age of marriage rises up to 20, then should those people have a right to slander those who lived at our times and married before 20? By the same token, we should not criticize the marriage of the Prophet based on the norm of our time.'
C'mon dude... who you kidding? Even grown up people having much stress getting married!
This not stop people from getting married ! Ofcourse marriage brings about responsibility and stress but your omitting all the positives it brings! If by your theory no one really should get married cz 'its stressful' .
You should be ashamed because according to the laws of today, Mohommad is a Child Molester!!
Your 'laws of today' change today and tomorrow like no ones business ! Its inconsistent ! Right should be right and Wrong should be wrong Objectively ! and not subjectively to culture,place or time ! Thats like saying dont hold on to any morals because eventually they are all going to change sooner or later!
Besides from a budhist perspective does it say it is wrong ! I mean are there laws there that draws the line between an adult and a child ? Do you have laws there that state that it wrong for a man of older or even younger age to marry a 9 year old woman who has attained puberty ?
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just for your information , its not really a muslim country . It has a majority muslim population but theres not a single muslim country in the world.Which is that is to say run by islamic priniciples of governance
I agree with you in this. It is also incumbent on muslims who are a minority to accept that (it is of Islamic principle to do so).If people(muslims included) dont follow that then it is the people to blame for their ignorance.I do agree that sometimes 'muslims' without even praying their obligatory 5 daily prayers like to play the oppressed minority victim to claim unfair things. I even know of a set of 'muslims' who go for muslim protests after getting drunk , when clearly alcohol is prohibited in islam !
That's also something that Muslims can learn, but will they be able to? because if you are a truly genuine Muslim, your goal is to spread Islam as much as possible, this video posted by Mr.eluwais one good example of how you can exceed that limit of religious tolerance!
It's our duty to convey the message , not shove it down throats ! Ofcourse the choice is totally upto the person. We tell you the core of our religion if you want to hear it fine , accept it fine , reject it fine ! No one is trying to brainwash or shove it down throats , if so then that is islamically wrong !
Of course I do criticize Islam (and I believe that I've clearly stated my reasons why), but I don't abuse the freedom given by the country that I live in.. day in and day out I meet lot of nice Muslim people.. I respect for who they are until someday they decide to live their lives by the Quran!
But luckily people I meet doesn't care about the nonsensical verses of Quran, so it makes my life easier to mingle with them!
Your prejudice is very clear here . You completely ommit the fact that maybe they are very nice because they choose to live their lives by the Quran ! If you say they are muslims who dont live their lifes by the Quran it is a paradox and your view of the Quran is completely distorted !
I've already replied this in the last thread.. this comment was made before that.. anyway I'm saying it again... even in 21st century there are many complications with teen pregnancy, back then it only could have been worse, studies into this have proven this... I gave you links in my previous reply!
If you think whenever a woman reaches puberty she is ready to get married.. you are SO WRONG, and same goes to Prophet whom with all his wisdom could not understand this!
Well you ask me from Buddhism's perspective, well... I'm not bound to give you answers from Buddhism.. because I didn't say Buddhism is the most perfect religion either... BUT having said that.. yes! Lord Buddha has mentioned about the age of marriage as it should be compatible to the age of the other party... else it would be sexual misconduct!
but you HAVE to know this was also a time when even great pharaohs like Ramses married their OWN sisters n mothers at very young ages like 8-12yo....
what else can we say....that period of time and the environment they lived in.....stuff like this was normal.....
if Aisha(pbuh) had felt any discomfort she never said it....she was always fond of the prophet....dare i say it...she loved him with all her being....
Aisha(pbuh) only complained of the prophet(pbuh) once.....when she followed the prophet to his former wives grave....and saw him cry.....she questioned if he truly loved her....(something a kin to a very jealous wife).....at this the prophet beat her on the chest....and scolded her saying he loved everyone equally....
why am i saying all this....
1) Aisha(pbuh) loved the prophet.....and consented to the marriage.....at some time...otherwise no marriage according to Islam....Aisha(pbuh) was not forced.....
2) Aisha(pbuh) loved the prophet(pbuh) it was very evident.....
3) The prophet(pbuh) did something that was the norm of that time...or the "outrage" would have left Muhammad(pbuh) with no followers.....if he REALLY was a pedo....
4) the prophet(pbuh) loved his wives...a horny man doesn't visit grave sites of his former wife(ves)...at night so as to not offend his current wife(ves)....
oh and please don't "dissect" this post if you reply.....its kinda annoying...and totally converts the message of the post.....
Dubai...Abu Dhabi has arabs made it? No all the Stuff is made by other people for money .. even the hummer they take are made from gold.. again western country's get the profit.. same with the buildings most are made by British engineers.. even today what Muslims sells for example mobile phones and computer parts Double profit goes to jews who own and invest on company...in a way you are slaves of jews .. you see Israel was Captured by muslims even Iran,Afganistan.etc..... jews lost every thing for Hitler and they spread every where.. and they was killed from millions.. see today russians they are a jew mix .. how powerful are they? every one is scared of the jews.. you see the point? even obama is controlled by them..
when the oil runs out in the middle east again it will be a desert.. even today its controoled by the USD and The Euro... a country cant depend on real estate tourism only..
and for the information Pope john Paul was shot by a Muslim...
Even in Turkey there is a Muslim Sunni terrorist group.. who bombed in 2003.
Lebanon Fatah al-Islam operates..
This is not a problem only for bust or America or what ever its a problem for the whole world..
South Asia India and Pakistan. ..
Pakistan
Pakistan based Lashkar-e-Taiba
Pakistan based Jaish-e-Mohammed
In Bangladesh the group Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh
In Afghanistan, Taliban and Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin
United States Al-Qaeda
Europe
2004 bombings of commuter trains in Madrid,
July 2005 London bombings
Russia
Nord-Ost incident at a theater in Moscow in October 2002
In the September 2004 Beslan school hostage crisis
Iraq
Israel and the Palestinian territories Hamas ,Islamic Jihad
Yemen
North Africa Al-Qaeda Organization in the Islamic Maghreb
Southeast Asia Abu Sayyaf Group also known as al-Harakat al-Islamiyya
This are the country's attacked by your people
IS THE WOLD SAFE ?
LMAO....what about the IRA....the Spanish Espada.....the Hindu LTTE...which is still very mush alive....the Maoists....the guerrillas in Cambodia (forgot the name)....the Myanmar Khmer Rouge....
Big list....but unlike "lucky" you....no biased sites exists to list them all.....or put up nice pictorials......
these ppl may attack.....but they attack due to Palestine and land problems.....THAT IS THEIR PRIMARY CAUSE.....
if a Buddhist man beats his family to death...or take any other such news that litter the sri lankan news papers almost any everyday....
do i ask you why?....just coz they claim to be in the same religion....doesn't mean i know what these morons are planning....nor do i care....i feel sorry for the victims.....and curse these morons along with the rest of you.....
i never supported terrorists be it "Muslim" or otherwise....
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Are you speaking here about all teen pregnancies? Such a generalisation cannot me made.You can never say that ALL TEENS who get married young will have complication ! Secondly if you compare women of the same age they(women of today) are not as strong physically , nor are they as exposed to harsh conditions of life as women of yesteryears were !
WRONG by whose standards ? You cannot so conclusively say it is 'SO WRONG' and speak on her behalf. If you are to say so then you must have a complete know how into her psyche which no one has !
And why is it that your speaking on her behalf ! She never complained or went against the marriage as it was in her right to do so ! It seems that you have a bigger problem with it that she ever did (given she had any)
Well this relates to the above the quoted para. You are bound to give me answers from budhist perspective because I take it that you are a budhist and if so , that is your yardstick to determine whats right and wrong !
Given that , that is the case then if you yourself say that budhism is imperfect then you cannot use imperfect tools or a standard that you deem imperfect to judge right or wrong !
Secondly when you say 'compatible' , its is very vague ! Is compatible defined in budhism itself ? 2 years ? 4 years ? 7 ? 11 ? Again compatible is subjective here and not clearly defined.
Thirdly , how is it that such an allowance to get married is permissable in the first place !? I thought the ultimate purpose of life is to vanish into nothingness and to do that you should have completely no desires ! Isnt that why Budha left his kid and wife ? If so then you are really not supposed to get married ......but if you choose to (going against the purpose of life in the process) you are given a vague guideline !
පොලව කොටන තැන
පාර හදන තැන
ගිනියම් අව්වේ
මහ වරුසාවේ
දෙවියෝ වැඩ ඉන්නේ
mun me sinhala song eka ahalada manda oka karanne
පාර හදන තැන
ගිනියම් අව්වේ
මහ වරුසාවේ
දෙවියෝ වැඩ ඉන්නේ
mun me sinhala song eka ahalada manda oka karanne
It is proven that teen pregnancies are more often than not lead to problems, the fact that prophet didn't care about, this itself is enough proof of his ignorance...
And can you give me conclusive proof that women of those days were all geared up for a marriage when they were at the age of 6? or can you prove that these complications did not exist at that time?
Today even with such care and advanced technologies doctors can only advice to avoid such situations, you cannot expect a better environment some 1000's of years ago... which the situation could only have been worse!
Do YOU know her complete physique to justify a 50+ man getting married to a 6/9 year old ?
Even her father was surprised at first when Prophet proposed, it was unexpected... that it self tells you a story he never belived that prophet would make such a proposal yet Prophet was a powerful man... who would dare to oppose him?
Do you expect Aisha a 6 year old to say no to deal between her father and the prophet of the GOD? are you kidding me?
Would anyone care about her opinion when Prophet himself explained that he can marry A'isha according to the Quran!
What makes you think that I'm taking Buddhism as a yard stick measure other religions?
Where have I stated that? you don't really need Buddhism to identify pedophilia..
Yes true, yet we can gauge obvious imperfections at the other end of the spectrum quite easily... means to say... if Buddhism is not perfect, Islam definitely below that, the theory of all god related stories are just so illogical.. that whatever the reason of existence of universe could not possibly be credited to an Omni potent god... if ever there is such a thing then it definitely is not omni potent!
Simply because you still cannot give me a reason for our existence from god's perspective!
As I know Buddha never had a compatible chart for marriage
instead he acknowledged what is commonly accepted at that time... but when you look at the core of Buddhism you don't really need a compatible chart because you are responsible for your actions and you of all people know what are your intentions if you marry someone whom 1/5th of your age!Thirdly , how is it that such an allowance to get married is permissable in the first place !? I thought the ultimate purpose of life is to vanish into nothingness and to do that you should have completely no desires ! Isnt that why Budha left his kid and wife ? If so then you are really not supposed to get married ......but if you choose to (going against the purpose of life in the process) you are given a vague guideline !
Siddartha left his family when he realized he was ready to accept the truth / nature of this life, till then he was married entertaining all his senses..
Like I said earlier... though the ultimate goal of Buddhist is to achieve Nirvana, that's only if you want to... if you aren't interested then it doesn't mean that Buddhism ignores day to day life.. it still discuss about how you can lead a good life!
Guidelines of marriage in Buddhism are not vague, many guidelines are available especially in "Singalowada Sutra"
Aisha (R.A) lived on a long life and died of old age ! The onus is on you to show that she was sick or she faced complications or even to show that she refuted the marriage ! During or after the Prophets lifetime !
Up until the recent past it was a common practice to marry off girls just as they attain the age of puberty because women were exposed to the responsibilies at a much younger age than the popcorn and bugs bunny cultured children of today ! If you really want a complete explaination and have the patience to listen then check out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTyKmTaIwko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWb92lY-llw&feature=related
Even her father was surprised at first when Prophet proposed, it was unexpected... that it self tells you a story he never belived that prophet would make such a proposal yet Prophet was a powerful man... who would dare to oppose him?
Do you expect Aisha a 6 year old to say no to deal between her father and the prophet of the GOD? are you kidding me?
Would anyone care about her opinion when Prophet himself explained that he can marry A'isha according to the Quran!
Well yes ! She could have if she wanted to ! Women use to come to the prophet with pleas and complaints during his prophethood ! So yeah if she wanted to , and if she was forced to she could have spoken ill about all of it during the many years she lived on after the prophet !
Well all of the above is sidetalk untill you tell me what your yardstick is (basis of judging right and wrong) ! So if its not budhism then i take it is secular ! your 'judgment' and 'namecalling' is based on secular views of 'right and wrong' . If that is the case,the secular 'view of right and wrong' is subjective! And subjectively , in that time and space , there is nothing wrong with the marriage ! In fact NONE of the enemies of the prophet at that took it up as issue and not until the very recent past ! Besides right and wrong cannot be 'subjective' but must be 'objective' ! Anyways my basic question is what is your source of right and wrong !?
"I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 51, Verse 56 . Ive answered this before !
the theory of all god related stories are just so illogical.. that whatever the reason of existence of universe could not possibly be credited to an Omni potent god... if ever there is such a thing then it definitely is not omni potent!
If you yourself beleive in 'karma' and some aspects of the life of budha (as posted in a previous thread -the life of Budha in pictures-and aspects like vanishing into nothingness,reincarnation,his sermon to the gods) , then that by your own standards is also illogical and 'fairytale'.
If you do beleive in God and at the same dont beleive that He is Omnipotent , that is a paradox ! If you are not able to understand God in totality or just because the world is not the way you want it to be , it does not mean He is not Omnipotent nor does it mean that God does not exist !
As I know Buddha never had a compatible chart for marriage
Guidelines of marriage in Buddhism are not vague, many guidelines are available especially in "Singalowada Sutra"
If by what you state , Budha went according to what was commonly accepted at that time and there is no rules as to when/who you can marry and who you cannot then the prophets marriage is not wrong even by Budhist principles ! This compatible age theory is again vague unless ofcourse compatible is clearly defined in budhism ! This would mean that a 20 year old man/woman who marries another 50 year old is wrong or even if a 5 year ord marries another 5 year old even lthough none of them have gone through puberty , this would be completely ok !
Are you saying that that all the time he spent with his family and his son , there was absolutely no truth or purpose in it ? That there was no truth in the the joy and peace of his spouse , his family , his son ? That is was not substantial ? All these will only bring suffering so to attain ultimate purpose of life (which is to vanish to nothingness) we should forego or not even desire these things !
Let me clarify this truth again 'to desire means to suffer' so we should completely 'desire nothing so we never suffer at all' ! This is the ultimate sacrifice for the ultimate prize which is to 'vanish into nothingness ?'
This is what i mean by vague ! 'There is an ultimate purpose , but if you dont want to you can lead other ways ' , that defies the purpose of there being one ultimate goal in life in the first place ! Thats like saying , stop at red but if you dont want to .....
Had Aisha attained puberty when prophet married her? Then why wait until she was 9 years old to consummate the marriage?
Besides in Quran itself it says that if you divorce someone "who has no courses" which clearly means that you CAN INFACT marry someone before she reaches puberty!
Contradiction??!!!
Other women's pleas has got nothing to do with what we are discussing here.
Just because he listen to other women doesn't automatically makes him a saint.
Perhaps Aisha kept quiet because she felt threatened, perhaps she kept quiet because she did not understand what a marriage was (very much possible given that she was only 6), perhaps she kept quiet because she was forced by her parents, perhaps she understood that if she hadn't accepted the offer then her parents could be targeted by prophet himself (especially considering that prophet was a thug that ordered people to chop off limbs off other people)!
There are many such very logical possibilities other than the ones you and the rest of the pundits trying to enforce here... I'd like to see you eliminate all that I've mentioned above and coming to your conclusion.
Are you telling me that I need to have a religion to talk about right and wrong?
that's hilarious... so if I don't have a religion I cannot comprehend good or bad? 
But what I don't understand is... on the day of Judgement when Allah sends all non-Muslims into hell... is that subjective or objective?
Definitely not good enough!
Why do we have to worship him is the key question.. there must be some reason why he needs us to worship... please explain that reason if possible!
If you did not understand what I've mentioned earlier... I've clearly said that I do not understand the how the after life Karma works... though a clear and working form of Karma already exist infact, its the base of all living things as we know it.. the CAUSE and EFFECT
So in Karma there's already something evident rather than a concept of a god where everyone believes that everything is poped out all of a sudden and created by one god, but doesn't even understand why it is so!
So if Karma is a fairytale then GOD must be a MEGA fairytale!
Until we can have a clear answer to why we are here... GOD's abilities as a omnipotent god is truly questionable
So is it safe to say that Prophet is infact a pedophile in every other country except where he was born?
Buddha stated many things what a husband can expect from a wife, definitely a 6 year old doll playing child would not be able to meet those, then again there would be adults too that would never be that perfect wife, but an adult whom have more experience in life, whose mentally and physically mature enough to handle situations can regarded as more compatible than a 6-year old child!
For an example Buddha says a wife should:
- not be spendthrift but should be economical and live within her means;
- guard and save her husband's hard-earned earnings and property
Means to say a wife should be resourceful and manage what she has skillfully... I'm not sure at what age a woman can master this exactly... BUT I'm definitely sure that its NOT 6 nor 9...
Cause and effect, when you keep creating causes you keep creating effects!
Happiness of getting married having children is substantial ofcourse, but are these forever? that was the ultimate question Buddha was trying to answer, he'd seen the life as a never ending circle... the same thing over and over again.. there's happiness there's sadness which he attributed to we keep creating causes and thus having to bear its effects.
So the lesser bonds we have in our lives the lesser we cause and therefore the lesser the effects... and lesser Karma to pay for therefore no reason for us to be re-born!
Lets take your analogy here,
You know what red light means, you are suppose to stop!
If you don't want to, you understand the consequences too..
Your mind knows you are wrong... and that exactly what Buddhism is... mind precedes everything... you cannot cheat to yourself!
Mano pubbangama dhamma, Mano setta mano maya
"Mind precedes everything"
Go firoz85 go.....
gr8 job dude...keep up the good work...no matter how many loops sri_lion keeps running around....
gr8 job dude...keep up the good work...no matter how many loops sri_lion keeps running around....
Had Aisha attained puberty when prophet married her? Then why wait until she was 9 years old to consummate the marriage?
Besides in Quran itself it says that if you divorce someone "who has no courses" which clearly means that you CAN INFACT marry someone before she reaches puberty!
Contradiction??!!!
Other women's pleas has got nothing to do with what we are discussing here.
Just because he listen to other women doesn't automatically makes him a saint.
Perhaps Aisha kept quiet because she felt threatened, perhaps she kept quiet because she did not understand what a marriage was (very much possible given that she was only 6), perhaps she kept quiet because she was forced by her parents, perhaps she understood that if she hadn't accepted the offer then her parents could be targeted by prophet himself (especially considering that prophet was a thug that ordered people to chop off limbs off other people)!
There are many such very logical possibilities other than the ones you and the rest of the pundits trying to enforce here... I'd like to see you eliminate all that I've mentioned above and coming to your conclusion.
Are you telling me that I need to have a religion to talk about right and wrong?
But what I don't understand is... on the day of Judgement when Allah sends all non-Muslims into hell... is that subjective or objective?
Definitely not good enough!
Why do we have to worship him is the key question.. there must be some reason why he needs us to worship... please explain that reason if possible!
If you did not understand what I've mentioned earlier... I've clearly said that I do not understand the how the after life Karma works... though a clear and working form of Karma already exist infact, its the base of all living things as we know it.. the CAUSE and EFFECT
So in Karma there's already something evident rather than a concept of a god where everyone believes that everything is poped out all of a sudden and created by one god, but doesn't even understand why it is so!
So if Karma is a fairytale then GOD must be a MEGA fairytale!
Until we can have a clear answer to why we are here... GOD's abilities as a omnipotent god is truly questionable
So is it safe to say that Prophet is infact a pedophile in every other country except where he was born?
Buddha stated many things what a husband can expect from a wife, definitely a 6 year old doll playing child would not be able to meet those, then again there would be adults too that would never be that perfect wife, but an adult whom have more experience in life, whose mentally and physically mature enough to handle situations can regarded as more compatible than a 6-year old child!
For an example Buddha says a wife should:
- not be spendthrift but should be economical and live within her means;
- guard and save her husband's hard-earned earnings and property
Means to say a wife should be resourceful and manage what she has skillfully... I'm not sure at what age a woman can master this exactly... BUT I'm definitely sure that its NOT 6 nor 9...
Cause and effect, when you keep creating causes you keep creating effects!
Happiness of getting married having children is substantial ofcourse, but are these forever? that was the ultimate question Buddha was trying to answer, he'd seen the life as a never ending circle... the same thing over and over again.. there's happiness there's sadness which he attributed to we keep creating causes and thus having to bear its effects.
So the lesser bonds we have in our lives the lesser we cause and therefore the lesser the effects... and lesser Karma to pay for therefore no reason for us to be re-born!
Lets take your analogy here,
You know what red light means, you are suppose to stop!
If you don't want to, you understand the consequences too..
Your mind knows you are wrong... and that exactly what Buddhism is... mind precedes everything... you cannot cheat to yourself!
Mano pubbangama dhamma, Mano setta mano maya
"Mind precedes everything"
WHY ARE YOU INSULTING GOD AL MIGHTY?
i'LL PRAY AND ASK HIM TO PUNISH YOU
WAIT ...
WHY ARE YOU INSULTING GOD AL MIGHTY?
PuuSa!!
WHY ARE YOU INSULTING GOD AL MIGHTY?
I'm waiting!!
The marriage contract was made then but consumated only after puberty ! The conditions for marriage are clearly defined . One of the primary conditions is the consent and without that nothing can go forward . And consumation only after attaining adulthood
My point here is that if any woman wanted the opportunity to question or
put her point across to the prophet she had the opportunity !
PERHAPS you should stop being so 'presumptuous' ! you just shot yourself in the foot there ! The time when the marriage took place it was in the meccan period , when the muslims were actually a minority in number and were being severly persecuted,tortured and killed ! Muhammed (PBUH) had the whole of makkah as enemies and was victimised ! Let alone Aishah , if any one of the prophets followers wanted to leave the muslims who were being persecuted,tortured,killed and embargoed against it was the ideal time! But you will see none of them did ! Instead they stood by him steadfast !
In fact the parents of Aisha were one of the very first followers of islam and her dad was the closest companion of th Prophet ! Your presumptuous claims of threat and torture is absurd because firstly 'it is your presumption' , secondly there is no proof of your perceived 'thuggery' whatsoever !
Are you telling me that I need to have a religion to talk about right and wrong?
Yep thats exactly what im saying . You need to have God in the picture to have an objective source of Right and Wrong ! I ask you of your value system on which you base your right and wrong because without one you dont know why right is right and why wrong is wrong !
Please address this point before going into what age of marriage is right and wrong
But what I don't understand is... on the day of Judgement when Allah sends all non-Muslims into hell... is that subjective or objective?
Well to take a leaf out of your book , its CAUSE - EFFECT !
CAUSE - You deny/ignore the very existence of the God Who created you
EFFECT - You are punished !
ISLAM means to submit ! It is the only religion whose name is based on ACTION and not on a person (Christianity-Christ , Budhism - Budha etc) !
It is a requirement that Faith is followed by Action in Islam ! To pray is to acknowledge God and it is our veneration and submission to God ! To deny God of His rights over us , is a sin !
I will leave this karma issue to the last , what about the other as you would say 'fairytale' aspects of the life of Budha? Isnt it true that he ascended and sermoned 'the gods' (whom you stated as beings lesser to humans) and floated on a lotus etc . It is double standards to take these stories at facevalue and then mock or redicule others !
Well i have given you the answer and if thats not good enough for you then thats totally fine,so be it. No one is trying to convert anyone here.
If you do actually beleive in God then that God has to be omnipotent otherwise it will be again a paradox.So yes we as muslims do see God as All Knowing All Powerful, and none of that changes based on our conditions ! God is not bound to the conditions we set
That would mean theres no REAL right and wrong ! Just depends on where you are and when ! This is why i asked you above your basis of your value system and explain to me why right is right and why wrong is wrong !
If you want to apply that rule of yours , then i think it also safe to say that when Budha chose to abandon his family and the responsibilities and duties of this 'worldly' life and chose to go medidate under a shady Bo tree in the jungle for his entire life , then by todays standards thats called a HERMIT (amongst other definitions by todays standards)
. I'm not sure at what age a woman can master this exactly... BUT I'm definitely sure that its NOT 6 nor 9...
You are contradicting yourself here man ! Anyways
The Prophet PBUH died when Ayesha was 18 ! Even at that young age she was one of the few women who had memorised the whole Quran ! 30 Chapters of it and by no means is that a small task ! She lived on many years afterwards for the great benefit of muslims that we were able to learn many aspects of the Sunnah (Prophetic traditions) through her !
If you actually study the lifetime of Ayesha you will find that she was far more mature than even the grown ups of today ! Even by your own mentioned 'standards'
The prophet was not rich ! Ayesha had to live through poverty as well in her youth and not to mention be a bedrock of support to the prophet when he had many enemies! When he was out during battle ! She was also known for providing water and nursing injured soldiers ! This is far more mature than your 'perceived sesame street 9 year olds or children of today'.
Besides in the yesteryears puberty wasnt only a purely physical change ! It was a change in all aspects with regard to maturity,responsibilities and all that ! We have to rewind just a 100 years and you will see this in our grand mothers or great grandmothers time !
To practically not want anything is COMPLETELY against the very innate nature of man! You will not find a single human being without any wants! Your ultimate purpose of life is scientifically physically and logically impossible! Even a little child will want a ball when he sees it ! To want to eat, drink and even cloth yourself is a WANT! To want to survive is an innate desire, this is a scientific fact! Are you saying we should not even desire food and water because if we do that then we will know what hunger and thirst is ? Dude...
Lets also not forget that these EFFECTS you talk of are not always negative ! Happiness and Joy of attaining your desires is just as much an EFFECT ! And vice versa. Why is this Karma force always negative and pessimistic in nature ? Many happy families exist , is this not CAUSE enough for EFFECT of happiness to be recycled ?
Im also trying to figure out how this is not a 'kill yourself' approach ? I mean if i dont want anything to do with this world, no bonds , then why not just leave the world right ! NO CUASE - NO EFFECT !
Lets NOT take my analogy and answer my main point !
"There is an ultimate purpose , but if you dont want to you can lead other ways , that defies the purpose of there being one ultimate goal in life in the first place !"
I ask this again because you said earlier its ok to lead an alternate path that doesnt lead to nirvana ! And now you say that that path has consequences , then its really not OK in the first in the place is it!?
When Budha was asked about God , why was he silent ? The creation of the universe, the fine tuning of the universe ! The Original Cause of the Universe !? Mind is not shown precedence here ! This is antagonistic in nature and if ,as you say by budhist principles MIND is to precede then an answer with reason should have been given either affirming or denying it !
Sorry for late reply.. been busy!
So according to that law, technically even a 75 year old grandfather can marry a 1 month old infant? so how would you go about getting consent from an infant?
HAHAHA! If Muslims were infact under threat at that period of time then that could be perfect reason for Aisha's parents to not to disobey Prophet, they'd be banished from the society and exposed to the so called threats outside, and also perfect opportunity for Prophet to ask anyone's hand in marriage as they would have no choice other than to agree!
MAKES PERFECT SENSE NOW!
And I say again prophet was a thug... he did torture captured thieves etc.
There are other ways to measure right and wrong other than what GOD says!
I don't understand why would you take GOD as the yard stick when it comes to figuring out what's right and what's wrong.. that's TOTALLY ABSURD!
When you take Allah's word for what's right and what's wrong.. what will happen to people of other faiths? should they believe what Allah says is right and wrong?
How about a common yard stick to measure right and wrong that depends on implications of one's actions to the society.. so that no matter what faith you belong to you will have to obey it..
For an example, by today's law in almost every country there's a minimum age for marriage, WHY? because it has been proved that underage marriages can be complicated and not safe, this is proven SCIENTIFICALLY!
Hence, here is a perfect example that what's right and wrong is defined by science... NOT by GOD, and is applicable to all humans regardless of their faith!
The kind of right and wrong you talk about only applies to you and your brotherhood!
Yes! lets take that theory further.... if you say that's CAUSE and EFFECT..
Then... Allah is the EFFECT of what CAUSE?
Please read the question again... this still doesn't answer my question!
You are explaining about submitting yourself to Allah... fine! I get it!
I'm asking why? why we need to acknowledge the GOD? it was his wish to create us..
If he created us so that we can worship him... there's must be some reason why he did that!
Good point!
I don't believe them either... these things are there probably to glorify his presence, but the key issue is those glorification does not effect his teachings or the message that he tried to convey, today most Buddhists are attracted to this nonsense rather than the actual message itself!
It's a sad situation!
Apparently it doesn't justify why we are here and why we need to worship him! he hasn't given a clear answer in the Quran either... all he has said is that he created us.. that's all... the WHY is still a mystery!
Yes HERMIT is right for few years he lived like that.. BUT not his entire life!
He came back and devoted his whole life teaching people what he knew.. and he was always at the center of his society so generally you cannot call him a HERMIT!
And a word on his responsibilities..
He ordained his own son taught him what he knew, later his wife too became 1 of the first 500 nuns in the history of Buddhism.. so he was responsible enough to give what he thought was the best for his family!
Memorizing a book at the age of 18 is nothing to be surprised about! Today's children doing memorizing for 10 subjects in school from the age of 14 or so...
I can guarantee you that today's children are far more sophisticated than Aisha.. you can show me ones that are not and I can show you the ones that are.. so its a subjective matter that we will never come to a conclusion!
and caring for sick and needy... even nowadays children do that.. what's that gotta do with the level of maturity needed for marriage?
Your theory is as such that every 100 years or so the minimum age of marriage drops but women retains the physical and mental strength required for it... can you prove this?
Why do you always see Karma as pessimistic.. infact you take the whole idea of Karma wrongly
Karma is a law... CAUSE and EFFECT can work for happiness and also the other way around, when I say Karma you automatically goes into thinking that its pessimistic!
You EAT something you like (CAUSE) you are happy (EFFECT) that's Karma... as simple as that.. now why would you only associate Karma with not wanting to eat? ofcourse you can.. but do you not see it the other way around?
Where have Lord Buddha ever said not to eat? although like you said.. vise versa logically, scientifically over eating can be disastrous.. do you deny that? that is why Lord Buddha has given you the middle path.. not too much, not too little! and he says it cannot be mastered overnight..
Killing yourself would mean that you are breaking the 1st precept, killing a live being is a sin.. and if you kill yourself, you'll only be creating more Karma which then will lead to more effects!
If you don't want me to take your analogy, then you should not have given one in the first place because your analogy represents your point.. that is what analogies are for!
Anyway... this is why Buddhism is flexible!
Although enlightenment is the ultimate glory... there's no such rule created by Buddha that you MUST follow it! I mean why would he want to create such a rule!
Had he created such a rule then that would contradict the whole point of CAUSE and EFFECT, if you understand that your actions will have consequences accordingly, then there's no need for Buddha to tell you whether you should step in to the stream that will lead to enlightenment or not!
It's your decision..
Actually its not about the beginning of the universe.. if I have stated that previously.. my bad! sorry! the question he was quiet about was whether the world is finite or not.. not only this question... he was silent about 14 questions of this sort..
Buddha has explained that the building blocks of the universe is a combination of matter, free energy and forces, which he further breaks down matter into the qualities of the matter as solidity/expansion (pathavi), fluidity/cohesion (apo), heat/temperature/maturity (tejo) and motion/displacement and air (vayo)
Free energy is a form that cannot be perceived directly similar to consciousness in living beings for example which in humans we know as Vinnana in Sanskrit.
Forces are created by moving matter creating phenomena such as gravity for an example!
Combination of all this is the beginning of universe and what Universe is made out of according to Buddhism..
So according to that law, technically even a 75 year old grandfather can marry a 1 month old infant? so how would you go about getting consent from an infant?
HAHAHA!
If Muslims were infact under threat at that period of time then that could be perfect reason for Aisha's parents to not to disobey Prophet, they'd be banished from the society and exposed to the so called threats outside, and also perfect opportunity for Prophet to ask anyone's hand in marriage as they would have no choice other than to agree!MAKES PERFECT SENSE NOW!
And I say again prophet was a thug... he did torture captured thieves etc.
There are other ways to measure right and wrong other than what GOD says!
I don't understand why would you take GOD as the yard stick when it comes to figuring out what's right and what's wrong.. that's TOTALLY ABSURD!
When you take Allah's word for what's right and what's wrong.. what will happen to people of other faiths? should they believe what Allah says is right and wrong?
How about a common yard stick to measure right and wrong that depends on implications of one's actions to the society.. so that no matter what faith you belong to you will have to obey it..
For an example, by today's law in almost every country there's a minimum age for marriage, WHY? because it has been proved that underage marriages can be complicated and not safe, this is proven SCIENTIFICALLY!
Hence, here is a perfect example that what's right and wrong is defined by science... NOT by GOD, and is applicable to all humans regardless of their faith!
The kind of right and wrong you talk about only applies to you and your brotherhood!
Yes! lets take that theory further.... if you say that's CAUSE and EFFECT..
Then... Allah is the EFFECT of what CAUSE?
Please read the question again... this still doesn't answer my question!
You are explaining about submitting yourself to Allah... fine! I get it!
I'm asking why? why we need to acknowledge the GOD? it was his wish to create us..
If he created us so that we can worship him... there's must be some reason why he did that!
Good point!
I don't believe them either... these things are there probably to glorify his presence, but the key issue is those glorification does not effect his teachings or the message that he tried to convey, today most Buddhists are attracted to this nonsense rather than the actual message itself!
It's a sad situation!
Apparently it doesn't justify why we are here and why we need to worship him! he hasn't given a clear answer in the Quran either... all he has said is that he created us.. that's all... the WHY is still a mystery!
Yes HERMIT is right for few years he lived like that.. BUT not his entire life!
He came back and devoted his whole life teaching people what he knew.. and he was always at the center of his society so generally you cannot call him a HERMIT!
And a word on his responsibilities..
He ordained his own son taught him what he knew, later his wife too became 1 of the first 500 nuns in the history of Buddhism.. so he was responsible enough to give what he thought was the best for his family!
Memorizing a book at the age of 18 is nothing to be surprised about! Today's children doing memorizing for 10 subjects in school from the age of 14 or so...
I can guarantee you that today's children are far more sophisticated than Aisha.. you can show me ones that are not and I can show you the ones that are.. so its a subjective matter that we will never come to a conclusion!
and caring for sick and needy... even nowadays children do that.. what's that gotta do with the level of maturity needed for marriage? Your theory is as such that every 100 years or so the minimum age of marriage drops but women retains the physical and mental strength required for it... can you prove this?
Why do you always see Karma as pessimistic.. infact you take the whole idea of Karma wrongly
Karma is a law... CAUSE and EFFECT can work for happiness and also the other way around, when I say Karma you automatically goes into thinking that its pessimistic!
You EAT something you like (CAUSE) you are happy (EFFECT) that's Karma... as simple as that.. now why would you only associate Karma with not wanting to eat? ofcourse you can.. but do you not see it the other way around?
Where have Lord Buddha ever said not to eat? although like you said.. vise versa logically, scientifically over eating can be disastrous.. do you deny that? that is why Lord Buddha has given you the middle path.. not too much, not too little! and he says it cannot be mastered overnight..
Killing yourself would mean that you are breaking the 1st precept, killing a live being is a sin.. and if you kill yourself, you'll only be creating more Karma which then will lead to more effects!
If you don't want me to take your analogy, then you should not have given one in the first place because your analogy represents your point.. that is what analogies are for!
Anyway... this is why Buddhism is flexible!
Although enlightenment is the ultimate glory... there's no such rule created by Buddha that you MUST follow it! I mean why would he want to create such a rule!
Had he created such a rule then that would contradict the whole point of CAUSE and EFFECT, if you understand that your actions will have consequences accordingly, then there's no need for Buddha to tell you whether you should step in to the stream that will lead to enlightenment or not!
It's your decision..
Actually its not about the beginning of the universe.. if I have stated that previously.. my bad! sorry! the question he was quiet about was whether the world is finite or not.. not only this question... he was silent about 14 questions of this sort..
Buddha has explained that the building blocks of the universe is a combination of matter, free energy and forces, which he further breaks down matter into the qualities of the matter as solidity/expansion (pathavi), fluidity/cohesion (apo), heat/temperature/maturity (tejo) and motion/displacement and air (vayo)
Free energy is a form that cannot be perceived directly similar to consciousness in living beings for example which in humans we know as Vinnana in Sanskrit.
Forces are created by moving matter creating phenomena such as gravity for an example!
Combination of all this is the beginning of universe and what Universe is made out of according to Buddhism..
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