If We have Evolved from a Dumb Monkey type ancestor. How come there are still Monkeys

[firoz85]

ELA BRO

Nature itself is a miracle.

'Everything happens for a reason'

If everything does happen for a reason, who determines this reason ?

Cause - effect relationship- There has to be intelligent design that determines
that 'which particular cause - would effect which particular element-and in which particular way'

 

[rajitha_ks]

There no such thing called "Scientific Miracles" if you cannot explain it by science then its unknown! that's it!

You cannot call anything a Scientific Miracle because if there is a sceintific explanation to something then it is no longer a unknown or a miracle!

Miracle is something our mind accepts when one cannot understand the inner workings of things.... in the ancient times a flying human was a miracle, until they decode the elements needed to fly... well is it a miracle now?

well said bro!

 

[rajitha_ks]

Nature itself is a miracle.

'Everything happens for a reason'

If everything does happen for a reason, who determines this reason ?

Cause - effect relationship- There has to be intelligent design that determines
that 'which particular cause - would effect which particular element-and in which particular way'

at heart lies the laws of physics. and there are around 25 of them taken all together. everything happening in the universe happens in accordance with those laws and that's it.

 

[firoz85]

There no such thing called "Scientific Miracles" if you cannot explain it by science then its unknown! that's it!

You cannot call anything a Scientific Miracle because if there is a sceintific explanation to something then it is no longer a unknown or a miracle!

Miracle is something our mind accepts when one cannot understand the inner workings of things.... in the ancient times a flying human was a miracle, until they decode the elements needed to fly... well is it a miracle now?

Scientific miracles -there are elements in science that it contradicts to its very fundamental laws and rules established.

Besides like i said , science might be able to explain the how but not the why.Gravity for instance,u cant explain 'why' force of attraction exist can you.Neither can science.

Taking into account even the 'how' of things.When science does explain such things to the last detail,how it can leave such careful planning to 'chance' is unscientific.

 

[rajitha_ks]

what is left over for chance is done after carefully calculating the statistical feasibility.

 

[sri_lion]

Nature itself is a miracle.

'Everything happens for a reason'

If everything does happen for a reason, who determines this reason ?

Cause - effect relationship- There has to be intelligent design that determines
that 'which particular cause - would effect which particular element-and in which particular way'

What is the reason for such an Intelligent Design to exist?

There must be some cause... so there you go... cause and effect!

 

[sri_lion]

Scientific miracles -there are elements in science that it contradicts to its very fundamental laws and rules established.

Besides like i said , science might be able to explain the how but not the why.Gravity for instance,u cant explain 'why' force of attraction exist can you.Neither can science.

Taking into account even the 'how' of things.When science does explain such things to the last detail,how it can leave such careful planning to 'chance' is unscientific.

Even gravity cannot get away from cause and effect, Gravity too exist because of some cause, probably a product of BIG BANG and BIG BANG is an effect of another cause.... and so on...

Are you suggesting that someone created it? if someone did, how do you explain that logically?

 

[firoz85]

What is the reason for such an Intelligent Design to exist?

There must be some cause... so there you go... cause and effect!

The previous point was a point i was answering to and not making.



Breaking your question down , i think your asking if God ('reason for intelligent design') does exist why? or who created God?

Well once youve come to the conclusion that there exists a superior diety to the 'cause effect problem' then we acknowledge that fact by 'relgion n faith'. We have to acknowledge that we are indeed finite and our wisdom is not infinite,so questions such as thatt is irrelevant once uve acknowledged that.

The choice of religion and faith is a topic of its own.

 

[sri_lion]

The previous point was a point i was answering to and not making.

Breaking your question down , i think your asking if God ('reason for intelligent design') does exist why? or who created God?

Well once youve come to the conclusion that there exists a superior diety to the 'cause effect problem' then we acknowledge that fact by 'relgion n faith'. We have to acknowledge that we are indeed finite and our wisdom is not infinite,so questions such as thatt is irrelevant once uve acknowledged that.

The choice of religion and faith is a topic of its own.

Exactly! So how can we believe such a force exist in the first place, when your knowledge is finite?

It is human that bought the theory of GOD, but as known to ordinary man and his knowledge can perceive and his senses can sense only science is proven fact...

If you say that knowledge is finite then can we believe finite knowledge of human talking about GOD?

 

[firoz85]

Exactly! So how can we believe such a force exist in the first place, when your knowledge is finite?

It is human that bought the theory of GOD, but as known to ordinary man and his knowledge can perceive and his senses can sense only science is proven fact...

If you say that knowledge is finite then can we believe finite knowledge of human talking about GOD?

Yes we are finite in ourself but that does not mean we are absolutely not without intelligence.Finite enough to acknowedge that there is immaculate intelligent design, metaphysics that we cannot comprehend , science that does not fullly explain it or contradicts and hence we have to acknowledge a Supriority out there.

However we are not infinite wise enough to say unequivocally that there is no God out there and that nature came to be by 'mere chance of a big bang'.
For us humans to say so convincingly that the earth fell just the right distance from the sun to support life , that the trees give just the right amount of oxygen to support life and that the balance of night and day,etc,etc is all just 'mere chance' is wrong,even by scientific standards.

To be finite does not mean 2 extremes i.e 'athiesm' or 'blind faith in God'.To be finite in my opinion is yes to acknowledge that there is a force behind creation of earth , of life and of nature . We can research into the how of it , the science of it but we can never truly try to comprehend the entirety of things and here is where Faith comes in. So its a balance of faith and reason.

 

[coolgayathra]

me siddiya thama yanwada sri lion bro?
haah waht funny stuff
some people still lives in the middle ages.
so funny
really funny
i cant beleieve some guys belive the creations of the humans theary

 

[Nasruddin]

were you there when he was being crucified? and if he was indeed was like that, still it doesn't necessarily mean a miracle.. it's just a matter of unusual brain chemistry.

Whether Jesus was there or not if you can behave like that when someone hurt you it is a miracle...
With a word of insult a normal man goes mad and kill the other...
That is why it is a miracle...
That brain chemistry is so rare and beyond your imagination....
That is why you brush it away so easily...
That is why it is a maracle..

The day you can do that it is not a miracle... it is love.... For Jesus it was Love...
for you it is only unusual brain chemistry... Because you are so low compared to him.
But real tragedy is that you don't know that you too can train your mind to work with that unusual brain chemistry...

 

[firoz85]

Yes we are finite in ourself but that does not mean we are absolutely not without intelligence.Finite enough to acknowedge that there is immaculate intelligent design, metaphysics that we cannot comprehend , science that does not fullly explain it or contradicts and hence we have to acknowledge a Supriority out there.

However we are not infinite wise enough to say unequivocally that there is no God out there and that nature came to be by 'mere chance of a big bang'.
For us humans to say so convincingly that the earth fell just the right distance from the sun to support life , that the trees give just the right amount of oxygen to support life and that the balance of night and day,etc,etc is all just 'mere chance' is wrong,even by scientific standards.

To be finite does not mean 2 extremes i.e 'athiesm' or 'blind faith in God'.To be finite in my opinion is yes to acknowledge that there is a force behind creation of earth , of life and of nature . We can research into the how of it , the science of it but we can never truly try to comprehend the entirety of things and here is where Faith comes in. So its a balance of faith and reason.

** Correction

Yes we are finite in ourself but that does not mean we are absolutely without intelligence.Finite enough to acknowedge that there is immaculate intelligent design, metaphysics that we cannot comprehend , science that does not fullly explain it or contradicts and hence we have to acknowledge a Supriority out there.

However we are not infinite wise enough to say unequivocally that there is no God out there and that nature came to be by 'mere chance of a big bang'.

For us humans to say so convincingly that the earth fell just the right distance from the sun to support life , that the trees give just the right amount of oxygen to support life and that the balance of night and day,etc,etc is all just 'mere chance' is wrong,even by scientific standards.

To be finite does not mean 2 extremes i.e 'to deny God' or 'blind faith in God'.To be finite in my opinion is yes to acknowledge that there is a force behind creation of earth , of life and of nature . We can research into the how of it , the science of it but we can never truly try to comprehend the entirety of things and here is where faith comes in. So its a balance of faith and reason.

 

[sri_lion]

** Correction

Yes we are finite in ourself but that does not mean we are absolutely without intelligence.Finite enough to acknowedge that there is immaculate intelligent design, metaphysics that we cannot comprehend , science that does not fullly explain it or contradicts and hence we have to acknowledge a Supriority out there.

The superiority that you refer is the unknown of science!

So the superiority of some 1000's of years ago is not so superior today since we've come to understand the reasons behind it!

However we are not infinite wise enough to say unequivocally that there is no God out there and that nature came to be by 'mere chance of a big bang'.

For us humans to say so convincingly that the earth fell just the right distance from the sun to support life , that the trees give just the right amount of oxygen to support life and that the balance of night and day,etc,etc is all just 'mere chance' is wrong,even by scientific standards.

What makes you think it just happened? This is a transformation of billions of years... the right amount of oxygen, sunlight etc. etc. the formula was ignite when it was the right time... not that it happened from the word go! instantly!

Your theory of "Earth just fell" is totally wrong way of looking at it...

Lets take an example:

Humans need X amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere

If this is the FACT then what you are saying here is....

It cannot be by chance that the atmosphere exactly having an X amount of Oxygen that is the ideal amount we need

But this is totally wrong way of looking at it... what you should be seeing here is..

It is bacuase X amount of Oxygen is present in atmosphere therefore life on earth could sustain and adopted to use that amount!

If you look at it that, nothing has happened by chance! everything had reasons behind it!!

To be finite does not mean 2 extremes i.e 'to deny God' or 'blind faith in God'.To be finite in my opinion is yes to acknowledge that there is a force behind creation of earth , of life and of nature . We can research into the how of it , the science of it but we can never truly try to comprehend the entirety of things and here is where faith comes in. So its a balance of faith and reason.

The GODs we hear in today's world are totally different from what we are talking here... like I mentioned the superiority is very relative term, things once we thought was superior isn't superior anymore so its in a constant state of transformation or evolution...

If you call that the GOD then it is totally different from GODs from religions... because people believe it is GODs word written in the HOLY BOOKS, and then GODs expect us to pray them...

But GOD themselves say they are almighty... if they are almighty then why they created all this? why they created us? the forces govern the universe? why they expect us to pray them?

There must be something they getting out of this? So if they are getting anything out of it... which means they are very much dependent on us... if they are dependent on us.. then can they be Almighty?

So these kind of OBVIOUS questions are related with the term GOD!! So if this is the GOD you are talking about then... these questions should be answered first!

So like you said we are not absolutely without intelligence.. from our view point this is very very simple logic... you created something for a purpose, the result is here but the purpose contradicts BIG TIME!!

 

[firoz85]

The superiority that you refer is the unknown of science!

So the superiority of some 1000's of years ago is not so superior today since we've come to understand the reasons behind it!




What makes you think it just happened? This is a transformation of billions of years... the right amount of oxygen, sunlight etc. etc. the formula was ignite when it was the right time... not that it happened from the word go! instantly!

Your theory of "Earth just fell" is totally wrong way of looking at it...

Lets take an example:

Humans need X amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere

If this is the FACT then what you are saying here is....

It cannot be by chance that the atmosphere exactly having an X amount of Oxygen that is the ideal amount we need

But this is totally wrong way of looking at it... what you should be seeing here is..

It is bacuase X amount of Oxygen is present in atmosphere therefore life on earth could sustain and adopted to use that amount!

If you look at it that, nothing has happened by chance! everything had reasons behind it!!



The GODs we hear in today's world are totally different from what we are talking here... like I mentioned the superiority is very relative term, things once we thought was superior isn't superior anymore so its in a constant state of transformation or evolution...

If you call that the GOD then it is totally different from GODs from religions... because people believe it is GODs word written in the HOLY BOOKS, and then GODs expect us to pray them...

But GOD themselves say they are almighty... if they are almighty then why they created all this? why they created us? the forces govern the universe? why they expect us to pray them?

There must be something they getting out of this? So if they are getting anything out of it... which means they are very much dependent on us... if they are dependent on us.. then can they be Almighty?

So these kind of OBVIOUS questions are related with the term GOD!! So if this is the GOD you are talking about then... these questions should be answered first!

So like you said we are not absolutely without intelligence.. from our view point this is very very simple logic... you created something for a purpose, the result is here but the purpose contradicts BIG TIME!!

Excellent points.I agree with u that science is against or you could say disproves the 'models of God' as we have come to know but it doesnt disprove the existence of God.I would debate about this divide further but again that embarks on choice of religion and its a topic on it own and should be done on a more personal basis given the sensitivity of it.

I understand what your saying thats it is a series of sequential events over billions of years that brought about the necessary elements of nature that support life. It might have been the case but the fact is its all perfectly planned,whether in a split second or over a billion years.Furthermore i could ask
over the course of those infinite events of transformation or evolution,can we not say that even if some small chemical reaction had gone wrong life would not exist.So if u are saying that all these transformation and evolution came about and then it just happend to be the breeding ground for origin of life,then that is attributing it to chance and might i say thats not very scientific.

Like your oxygen example there are infinite examples that if the balance were to be adjusted even by a minute percentage then life would not exist.

Also yes science does explain how things work and it is in the verge of finding a lot more but again this explains the how and not the why ! It does not disprove the existence of God , rather strengthens the case.


The debate here is about evolution/science against creation/God so the concept of prayers,books and is a slight discourse i would say but its an avenue of its own.However.let me just add a footnote to it saying that these are guidelines for us to live and God is not dependant on us doing it or not.

In my opinion , and again this just my opinion away from the topic, i take life as gift from the Creator.Our purpose is to worship Him and by that i dont mean engage in the spiritual world 24/7 ! Sense of worship is basically to enjoy life within the guidelines (books) sent for us and acknowledging Him through this and through prayers.

Nights !!!

 

[sri_lion]

I understand what your saying thats it is a series of sequential events over billions of years that brought about the necessary elements of nature that support life. It might have been the case but the fact is its all perfectly planned,whether in a split second or over a billion years.Furthermore i could ask
over the course of those infinite events of transformation or evolution,can we not say that even if some small chemical reaction had gone wrong life would not exist.So if u are saying that all these transformation and evolution came about and then it just happend to be the breeding ground for origin of life,then that is attributing it to chance and might i say thats not very scientific.

That is the point right there, what the right amount of entities could do was to create something called "life", it is just another product like everything else in this universe..

Only this is more fascinating (only to us) because it has the special property (at least to us) of being alive!

And being alive is just another state of behavior... for example trees grow but they aren't really alive like us.. so its in a another state, a different state of existence...

Like your oxygen example there are infinite examples that if the balance were to be adjusted even by a minute percentage then life would not exist.

YES, But we cannot call it CHANCE simply because the result was something called "Life", then the forming of everything in this universe should be by CHANCE!

Well.. they aren't... they are a result of something.. so does life!

Also yes science does explain how things work and it is in the verge of finding a lot more but again this explains the how and not the why ! It does not disprove the existence of God , rather strengthens the case.

That totally depends on how you define GOD

The debate here is about evolution/science against creation/God so the concept of prayers,books and is a slight discourse i would say but its an avenue of its own.However.let me just add a footnote to it saying that these are guidelines for us to live and God is not dependant on us doing it or not.

In my opinion , and again this just my opinion away from the topic, i take life as gift from the Creator.Our purpose is to worship Him and by that i dont mean engage in the spiritual world 24/7 ! Sense of worship is basically to enjoy life within the guidelines (books) sent for us and acknowledging Him through this and through prayers.

Nights !!!

Well, its your personal opinion.. I've got nothing against it as long as those beliefs doesn't clash with others in a harmful way!

But there is definitely a major contradiction of what we know as GOD and everything else being his creation..

Cheers!

 

[coolshano]

Exactly !!!

true...

 

[coolshano]

but he has a point...

 

[madurax86]

Excellent points.I agree with u that science is against or you could say disproves the 'models of God' as we have come to know but it doesnt disprove the existence of God.I would debate about this divide further but again that embarks on choice of religion and its a topic on it own and should be done on a more personal basis given the sensitivity of it.

I understand what your saying thats it is a series of sequential events over billions of years that brought about the necessary elements of nature that support life. It might have been the case but the fact is its all perfectly planned,whether in a split second or over a billion years.Furthermore i could ask
over the course of those infinite events of transformation or evolution,can we not say that even if some small chemical reaction had gone wrong life would not exist.So if u are saying that all these transformation and evolution came about and then it just happend to be the breeding ground for origin of life,then that is attributing it to chance and might i say thats not very scientific.

Like your oxygen example there are infinite examples that if the balance were to be adjusted even by a minute percentage then life would not exist.

Also yes science does explain how things work and it is in the verge of finding a lot more but again this explains the how and not the why ! It does not disprove the existence of God , rather strengthens the case.


The debate here is about evolution/science against creation/God so the concept of prayers,books and is a slight discourse i would say but its an avenue of its own.However.let me just add a footnote to it saying that these are guidelines for us to live and God is not dependant on us doing it or not.

In my opinion , and again this just my opinion away from the topic, i take life as gift from the Creator.Our purpose is to worship Him and by that i dont mean engage in the spiritual world 24/7 ! Sense of worship is basically to enjoy life within the guidelines (books) sent for us and acknowledging Him through this and through prayers.

Nights !!!

You better get this the first time because im not gonna say it over and over again
Who said things are planned? You think things were planned because you think this is perfect, which is a result of planning. You plan things when you want to make them perfect. Is the world perfect? it isnt neither you or me is perfect, you have to think out of the box here think of the other different ways that a better human can be designed, there are lots of ways starting from the face!! why not put another eye in the back?? that might make the eye sight perfect ??? and it'll be planned! so the ground situation is NOT planned by ANY one its just how the things happened, we see the result now.
If you take a look at the creatures in the depths of the oceans ..you'll scream "ALIENS!" lol and that the god that created us cant ever create those animals, you will mostly not even all them animals, just because they dont seem like animals! but they are but they are different. Not all animals have a nose in the middle of the face, but what you tend to make this law by feeling that all animals have the same structure -- it is no law. You just keep it to yourself because you tend to think that all these are the creation of one being and that being wanted these things that the way they are.
I dont know about your scientific knowledge but i think thatstating this will enlighten your future. Its about atoms. Atoms have neutrons, protons, electrons and a whole bunch of things that havent even been discovered yet. I'm talking about the electrons, even though Atoms have electrons(hydrogen has one, helium has 2 so on and so on). No scientist can point to some space near the Atom's core and say "heres the electron" because electrons dont actually have a place they are in constant movement to make things more advanced there isnt a constant way of movement(path) all there is., is that an electron "can" be near to the atom(at an measurable radius) about 95% of all its positions
Got it? its not certain it can be anywhere at a given time, the world you see is so big and a collection of uncertainty, it makes you think that things "are" certain thats were people go wrong ...

 

[Ciril]

But sometimes I think if we can jump from one tree to another it will be easy for us insted of waiting for private busses. they are run by hora mudalalilas.