Why assume your GOD is true?

[කිඹුලා බනිස්]

Well atheist claim was that your belief is based on faith, and you say exactly the same thing.

Yeah faith and common sense.we don't trust the theory of everything coincidence.billions of details making life possible on earth In brief, man lives on a planet perfectly designed for his survival. This is certainly a planet "created for human beings". if you in fact start questioning your self you will realize. such as,

How does the atmosphere serve as a protective ceiling for the earth?

How does each one of the billions of cells in the human body know and perform its individual tasks?

How does this extraordinary ecological balance exist on earth?

A person seeking answers to these questions surely proceeds on the right path. He does not remain insensitive to things happening around him, and doesn't plead ignorance about the extraordinary nature of the world. A person who asks questions, who reflects on and gives answers to these questions will realize that on every inch of the planet, a plan and an order reigns:

How did the flawless order in the whole universe come into being?

Who provided the delicate balances in the world?

How did living beings, incredibly diversified in nature, emerge?

Why there is definitely a god(Allah)!

1) The World and Universe he created is perfect. there are no earth quakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, land slides or cyclones. No natural disasters at all. No comets or other astro-debries falling on to our world. This shows this world is a creation of superior, infallible all knowing GOD/Allah!

2) Our bodies are perfect. No cancer causing mutations, no diseases. perfectly designed by a higher power so we dont get even an headache. No infections HIV or AIDS, nothing that GOD/(Allah)s great creation, Human body cant Handle. Our Children are born perfectly, No congenital diseases, hole in the hearts , child hood cancers, or any sort of unbearable pain to innocent children or babies. this shows our GOD/(Allah) is perfect and All merciful and not a cruel god at all.


Prove me wrong if you can!

Or please learn some basic biology and basic science .

 

[I love Srilanka]

Misguided people do abuse other religions, not particularly Muslims by the way.

I'd very much like to know some quranic verses about how to treat other religions if you may.

I wonder how couldn't you know or search on the net this, on the contrary when you bring some allegation you have ready made informations.ha!ha! I'm kidding..anyway

Most of the non Muslims do abuse in this forum.If any muslim do so, they cant be a good muslim or they are against islam.

Revile not those unto whom they pray beside Allah lest they wrongfully revile Allah through ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do.(6:108)

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.(60:8)

Forgive and show indulgence to them…Whosoever surrendereth his purpose to God while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve” (2:109-112).

There is no compulsion in religion The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower (2.256)

Proofs have come unto you from your Lord, so whoso seeth, it is for his own good, and whoso is blind is blind to his own hurt. And I am not a keeper over you.(6:104)

"Say: Oh you that reject the faith!
I do not worship that which you worship,
Nor will you worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which you have been accustomed to worship.
Nor will you worship that which I worship.
You have your way and I have mine." – [109:1-6]

also saying of the prophet

“Whoever kills a person who has a truce with the Muslims will never smell the fragrance of Paradise.” (Saheeh Muslim)

“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)

"If anyone harms (others), God will harm him, and if anyone shows hostility to others, God will show hostility to him." Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 1625.

Hope this will clarify you.

 

[AncientGlory]

Yeah faith and common sense.

Definetly, Blind faith and common sense. Common sense will always ridicule the idea of a GOD. But when blind faith overrides common sense one tend to assume that it is sensible to see sense in what makes no sense.

we don't trust the theory of everything coincidence.

That is your problem. We don't trust the theory of everything was made by an invisible person up in the sky. Both of them are theories.

billions of details making life possible on earth In brief, man lives on a planet perfectly designed for his survival.

Yeah right. Tell that to the people who are suffering from the floods in pakistan. Perfect indeed. This is again truth covered by blind faith. You cannot see the flows in the world, if you see one you will look in the quran and try to give a meaning to that flow. You cannot see beyond that.

This is certainly a planet "created for human beings". if you in fact start questioning your self you will realize. such as,

How does the atmosphere serve as a protective ceiling for the earth?

How does each one of the billions of cells in the human body know and perform its individual tasks?

How does this extraordinary ecological balance exist on earth?

Really? And that's a proof of GODs existence? This is some logic beyond me.

A person seeking answers to these questions surely proceeds on the right path. He does not remain insensitive to things happening around him, and doesn't plead ignorance about the extraordinary nature of the world. A person who asks questions, who reflects on and gives answers to these questions will realize that on every inch of the planet, a plan and an order reigns:

And a person who is not blinded by faith will only seek to see beyond what's been written in a book and see the truth. He who is fueled by blind faith will never see it pass a point, no matter how much he tries. Like in your case.
A person who is sensitive to what is happening around him will see, all the flows in the so called design, The evil around us, crimes done in the name of GOD and realize the whole concept is not logical. But a person who is following a book no matter how many contradictions he sees in it, is governed by blind faith and is not sensitive to what is happening at all. All he is sensitive is to what the book teaches him.

How did the flawless order in the whole universe come into being?

Who provided the delicate balances in the world?

How did living beings, incredibly diversified in nature, emerge?

Keeping oneself occupied with relentless research to answer these questions results in a clear awareness that everything in the universe, its
order, each living being and structure is a component of a plan, a product of design. Every detail, the excellent structure of an insect's wing, the system enabling a tree to carry tons of water to its topmost branches, the order of planets, and the ratio of gases in the atmosphere, are all unique examples of perfection.

Don't repeat this copy paste stuff.

ridiculous..so u mean you have to have personal knowledge of God, you have to see on TV, you have to see on the internet and you want to meet the people who were with God..

No, with that argument I was pointing out the error in your example, comparing Moscow to GOD. And with your answer you verifies this error by saying the comparison of moscow(Seen in TV,Internet) to GOD is ridicules. I wonder whether you can come out of the limited thinking you are used to and see how ridiculous it looks.

to understand the God. don't you feel your reply sounds like silly.don't expect such a mightiest God will be easily accessible to you in the above said means.

To understand GOD you must come out of your think box and walk in my shoes. But you can never do that coz your thinking is limited. I can think from a theistic and atheistic view that is why I know what is real. You are taught to learn the same thing from the day that you were born and you cannot really understand anything beyond that. That is why you see whatever that does not align with your thinking is ridiculous. You cannot think past a point because even to doubt your GOD is a sin. So you are forever trapped in that small box.

Allah cannot be limited to sight and is therefore unseen and He cannot be sensed physically at all.

Now if you want to come to the original topic of the thread, I do not believe in Allah. I believe in FSM and I say he is the creator of the universe, all powerful OMNIMAX GOD. Your GOD is false. How do you prove he is not? (I'm assuming because its said in your book?)

 

[AncientGlory]

I wonder how couldn't you know or search on the net this, on the contrary when you bring some allegation you have ready made informations.ha!ha! I'm kidding..anyway

Most of the non Muslims do abuse in this forum.If any muslim do so, they cant be a good muslim or they are against islam.

Revile not those unto whom they pray beside Allah lest they wrongfully revile Allah through ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do.(6:108)

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.(60:8)

Forgive and show indulgence to them…Whosoever surrendereth his purpose to God while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve” (2:109-112).

There is no compulsion in religion The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower (2.256)

Proofs have come unto you from your Lord, so whoso seeth, it is for his own good, and whoso is blind is blind to his own hurt. And I am not a keeper over you.(6:104)

"Say: Oh you that reject the faith!
I do not worship that which you worship,
Nor will you worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which you have been accustomed to worship.
Nor will you worship that which I worship.
You have your way and I have mine." – [109:1-6]

also saying of the prophet

“Whoever kills a person who has a truce with the Muslims will never smell the fragrance of Paradise.” (Saheeh Muslim)

“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)

"If anyone harms (others), God will harm him, and if anyone shows hostility to others, God will show hostility to him." Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 1625.

Hope this will clarify you.

To tell you the truth I did try to find this in the internet and for some reason couldn't find what I was looking for.

Thanks and I appreciate it. I need more time to read and understand it.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Concept allah & the concept christian God are great myths.Nothing more than than.Thes quran & bible were man written books.Both Muhammad & Jesus never met a God.
In history there were lot of men who claimed they have encountered gods when they were alone in jungles or desserts.Luckily they all did not become messengers of gods.
Conecpt of god is a long standing myths.
we dont have Gods.But I assume we have aliens who are more techonoligically developed than humans in these universe.

Ha!! ha! well, he is slowly advancing something is there superior than humans..now he say it is aliens.well..well..Mashaallah you have to think & improve little further.then it is done..

 

[AncientGlory]

1) The World and Universe he created is perfect. there are no earth quakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, land slides or cyclones. No natural disasters at all. No comets or other astro-debries falling on to our world. This shows this world is a creation of superior, infallible all knowing GOD/Allah!

2) Our bodies are perfect. No cancer causing mutations, no diseases. perfectly designed by a higher power so we dont get even an headache. No infections HIV or AIDS, nothing that GOD/(Allah)s great creation, Human body cant Handle. Our Children are born perfectly, No congenital diseases, hole in the hearts , child hood cancers, or any sort of unbearable pain to innocent children or babies. this shows our GOD/(Allah) is perfect and All merciful and not a cruel god at all.


Prove me wrong if you can!

Or please learn some basic biology and basic science .

Your point is well understood and also raised by me. But like I said, faith overrides the common sense.

 

[මංත්‍රීබබා]

Main reason for a person to feel his religion is true because he inherits it from his parents.when he grows up in a culture where he can learn more about it & practice it, & god he inherited by birth get sealed in his heart.Then his god deeply rooted it in his mind.This the main reason.
On the other hand he develops fear about this mythical god.He thinks if he speak, think or work against this god or religion, he may face punishments like , getting sick,sack from his job or failing exams etc.
Ultimately he become part of it where he decided to live with it.
There are 100 of religions in the world.each religion contradicts other.Same like quran contradicts bible.Therefore any idiot can imagine all of these religions cant be true.If one religion is true all other 99% of religions become false.We can assume most of the authors of these religions are great liers of ancient history.If one day if thses authors are allowed to have a revisit to earth, they may shocked to find how far their lies have walked to people's life changing their living patterns, clothes & attitudes etc.They get shocked when they see thousands of churches, mosques, kovils,temples build upon their lies.

 

[AncientGlory]

Main reason for a person to feel his religion is true because he inherits it from his parents.when he grows up in a culture where he can learn more about it & practice it, & god he inherited by birth get sealed in his heart.Then his god deeply rooted it in his mind.This the main reason.

Is this the main reason to feel his religion is true? I think this is the reason for someone to know his religion better than other. Some people just because of this decide to leave it.

On the other hand he develops fear about this mythical god.He thinks if he speak, think or work against this god or religion, he may face punishments like , getting sick,sack from his job or failing exams etc.
Ultimately he become part of it where he decided to live with it.

Not everyone, some just decide its not logical and leave it.

We can assume most of the authors of these religions are great liers of ancient history.If one day if thses authors are allowed to have a revisit to earth, they may shocked to find how far their lies have walked to people's life changing their living patterns, clothes & attitudes etc.They get shocked when they see thousands of churches, mosques, kovils,temples build upon their lies.

You are quite right there.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Srilanka
Yeah faith and common sense.
Definetly, Blind faith and common sense. Common sense will always ridicule the idea of a GOD. But when blind faith overrides common sense one tend to assume that it is sensible to see sense in what makes no sense.

Just because we can’t bring God here and show u (then only you will agree it seems), you can’t say blind faith, it is the faith that God ask us to use our common sense and decide our self, for my common sense it is clicking, and not to your common sense. Even if I am in neutral position and not the follower of Quran and 2 options r available to choose 1)- God exist, and it is clearly mentioned in all the scriptures 2)- God is not exist, all the creatures came in to exist by nature. Still I will go with option 1 as something can’t create itself. Everything has to have a producer/manufacturer. Of course for a bollywood film you can make a story of your so called “sensible sense” in which everything creates itself and no manufacture/creator is required. In that case the computer which you are now using should manufacture itself, and hopefully Bill Gates role is not required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Srilanka
we don't trust the theory of everything coincidence.
That is your problem. We don't trust the theory of everything was made by an invisible person up in the sky. Both of them are theories.


Though it is a faith, we have a guide of scriptures which say everything from A to Z, someone neither brought a book like that nor found any mistake in that except allegation which proved to be incorrect. So immediate choice is it should be a divine book, whatever mentioned in that should be correct. Moreover Quran speak abt hundred of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’


Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Srilanka
billions of details making life possible on earth In brief, man lives on a planet perfectly designed for his survival.
Yeah right. Tell that to the people who are suffering from the floods in pakistan. Perfect indeed. This is again truth covered by blind faith. You cannot see the flows in the world, if you see one you will look in the quran and try to give a meaning to that flow. You cannot see beyond that.


it can be new to you, but as a muslim I read quran which speaks about testing and punishing the people etc. it happened even to prophets and their generation, disasters never kept free any of the any generation. Further only if there are no floods in the world I may say God & quran is wrong.




Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Srilanka
This is certainly a planet "created for human beings". if you in fact start questioning your self you will realize. such as,

How does the atmosphere serve as a protective ceiling for the earth?

How does each one of the billions of cells in the human body know and perform its individual tasks?

How does this extraordinary ecological balance exist on earth?
Really? And that's a proof of GODs existence? This is some logic beyond me.

What you mean to say logic beyond you .are u writing simply to refute the questions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Srilanka
A person seeking answers to these questions surely proceeds on the right path. He does not remain insensitive to things happening around him, and doesn't plead ignorance about the extraordinary nature of the world. A person who asks questions, who reflects on and gives answers to these questions will realize that on every inch of the planet, a plan and an order reigns:
And a person who is not blinded by faith will only seek to see beyond what's been written in a book and see the truth. He who is fueled by blind faith will never see it pass a point, no matter how much he tries. Like in your case.
A person who is sensitive to what is happening around him will see, all the flows in the so called design, The evil around us, crimes done in the name of GOD and realize the whole concept is not logical. But a person who is following a book no matter how many contradictions he sees in it, is governed by blind faith and is not sensitive to what is happening at all. All he is sensitive is to what the book teaches him.

Again you are repeating the word blind faith, so what is your agenda here. We don’t need to see what is happening around the world that is man made things. It’s nothing to do with God. Again you are talking abt contradiction, if we find contradiction OK, if we don’t find what we can do except following the same God’s revelation concretely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Srilanka
ridiculous..so u mean you have to have personal knowledge of God, you have to see on TV, you have to see on the internet and you want to meet the people who were with God..
No, with that argument I was pointing out the error in your example, comparing Moscow to GOD. And with your answer you verifies this error by saying the comparison of moscow(Seen in TV,Internet) to GOD is ridicules. I wonder whether you can come out of the limited thinking you are used to and see how ridiculous it looks.

It seems you have no answers for my counter reply, only now you wanted to tell my earlier argument is wrong. Infact, I wanted to tell you that even unseen object can exist. But as per you, you will trust only upon watching on TV, internet or meet the people who was there. suppose you were living some 200 or 300 years back, if someone say Moscow doesn’t exist, what is your answer would have been? Coz that time, you didn’t have TV, Internet and very rarely people move to the countries. like that as of now even scientist are not sure about God exist just because it is beyond their knowledge, but they never denied God exist at the sametime..may be in the future inshallah as it is the quran, even science may prove about God, hell, heaven & day of judgment days etc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Srilanka
to understand the God. don't you feel your reply sounds like silly.don't expect such a mightiest God will be easily accessible to you in the above said means.
To understand GOD you must come out of your think box and walk in my shoes. But you can never do that coz your thinking is limited. I can think from a theistic and atheistic view that is why I know what is real. You are taught to learn the same thing from the day that you were born and you cannot really understand anything beyond that. That is why you see whatever that does not align with your thinking is ridiculous. You cannot think past a point because even to doubt your GOD is a sin. So you are forever trapped in that small box.

You can understand from my above reply that my thinking is not limited; I told you many things above. Again your allegations are same. if I am born and taught from the start same thing it doesn’t justify anything, then what happened to thousands of people who reverted to Islam from different faith. Another addition to your silly points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I love Srilanka
Allah cannot be limited to sight and is therefore unseen and He cannot be sensed physically at all.
Now if you want to come to the original topic of the thread, I do not believe in Allah. I believe in FSM and I say he is the creator of the universe, all powerful OMNIMAX GOD. Your GOD is false. How do you prove he is not? (I'm assuming because its said in your book?)


It’s simple. I told you in my past reply that to judge God we have four definitions, if your God is matching with this four definition yes it is God, otherwise it is ceased to be god. Come on man this doesn’t required to be mentioned in my book, common sense. GOD cant be more than one, should not die, begets not nor he begotten and we can’t compare anything to him. Same thing is mentioned in Quran as well as below.

"Say: He is Allah, the One and Only. "Allah, the Eternal, Absolute. "He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him." [Al-Qur’an 112:1-4]

 

[AncientGlory]

[FONT=&quot]Even if I am in neutral position and not the follower of Quran
[/FONT]

Here's the thing. you can never come to a neutral position because that will mean you are doubting allah.

[FONT=&quot]Still I will go with option 1 as something can’t create itself. Everything has to have a producer/manufacturer.
[/FONT]

Are you sure?
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Though it is a faith, we have a guide of scriptures which say everything from A to Z,
[/FONT]

And answer to the question why you believe scriptures are true, is because it is written in scriptures. That's just proves what you have is blind faith.

The book says book is true therefore the book is true. You see logic in that?

[FONT=&quot] someone neither brought a book like that nor found any mistake in that except allegation which proved to be incorrect. So immediate choice is it should be a divine book, whatever mentioned in that should be correct. Moreover Quran speak abt hundred of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, [/FONT]

This is all what a muslim will say. Only someone who cannot think for himself will say quaran has no mistakes, and it mentions scientific facts etc. You keep bringing this, but I haven't seen any of it. And I studied the quaran from a neutral position, something you can never do.

[FONT=&quot]it can be new to you, but as a muslim I read quran which speaks about testing and punishing the people etc. it happened even to prophets and their generation, disasters never kept free any of the any generation.
[/FONT]

Just when I said, a person who is covered by blind faith, will look in the quran and try to justify the flows in the world you do exactly that. Bravo..

[FONT=&quot]What you mean to say logic beyond you .are u writing simply to refute the questions.
[/FONT]

I meant I don't see the way universe operate as a proof of a being who is up in the sky, and making it happen. If you see that as a logical explanation, that logic is beyond me.

[FONT=&quot]Again you are repeating the word blind faith,
[/FONT]

Because you are repeatedly showing how deep you are in a mud pit full of blind faith.

[FONT=&quot]so what is your agenda here.
[/FONT]

I just don't see you have anything other than your blind faith to back your claims. You learned from a book from the day you were born and you find a way to define the world by that book. You interpret everything in the book to suit the way you wanna see it. And the only proof you have for the authenticity of the book is that book says it is true. And you don't see a flow in that logic. So there's no other explanation. It is blind faith. I wanna discuss that. That is my agenda.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It seems you have no answers for my counter reply, only now you wanted to tell my earlier argument is wrong. Infact, I wanted to tell you that even unseen object can exist. But as per you, you will trust only upon watching on TV, internet or meet the people who was there.
[/FONT]

You sure does show your colors in understanding logic. You couldn't even understand my reply and you are babbling these useless rants. Here is it broken down so this time you won't miss it.

(1) You wanted to say unseen(NOT seen by you) things can exist. To explain this you used Moscow. You haven't seen Moscow but you know it is there.

(2) I explained that the reason for you to believe moscow is there is because even thought you haven't seen moscow you have evidence for its existence. Concrete 100%. TV,Internet and other things were just examples to show there is evidence.

(3) If you'd like to give this logical thinking some go, you'll understand the logic behind my argument. which is,
Unseen things can exist, but as long as we do not have concrete evidence for their existence there is no reason to believe it. And furthermore I wanted to explain that is why the comparison of Moscow to GOD(Done by you) was not suitable.

Now without seeing this clear logic, you were thinking the big words in my reply were TV and Internet and Tourists and you were following those words. This is how much you are damaged by the limited thinking promoted through your book. You can't even see the simple thing that makes sense.

[FONT=&quot]suppose you were living some 200 or 300 years back, if someone say Moscow doesn’t exist, what is your answer would have been? Coz that time, you didn’t have TV, Internet and very rarely people move to the countries.
[/FONT]

In this case I would say I don't believe it because there is not evidence. What you failed to see was in that case you would not bring that example to strengthen your claim. Coz even you are not sure moscow is there.

It is like saying I haven't seen aliens but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Such is the case of GOD. If you already didn't know moscow didn't exist, you wouldn't bring that argument.

The point is with out evidence there is no reason to believe. That is not a denial. The question whether GOD exists or not remains answered. Not proven neither disproven. But however there is logic that suggests GOD concept is highly unprobable. But of course its not easy to understand for someone who is not willing to keep an open mind to see pass the faith and see this logic.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] like that as of now even scientist are not sure about God exist just because it is beyond their knowledge, but they never denied God exist at the sametime.
[/FONT]

Does that prove anything? They didn't deny the existance of Flying Spaghetti Monster either. The other thing is you can not speak of scientists in general, some of them strongly ridicule the GOD.

[FONT=&quot]You can understand from my above reply that my thinking is not limited; I told you many things above. Again your allegations are same.
[/FONT]

I'm not saying your thinking is limited. I'm saying your thinking is limited with respect to the subject of GOD. You can never come out of that box, and take a walk in the neutral path. It is forbidden to you. So your thinking is limited.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] if I am born and taught from the start same thing it doesn’t justify anything, then what happened to thousands of people who reverted to Islam from different faith. Another addition to your silly points[/FONT]

Well and you say your thinking is not limited and you come up with this. Ironically this is supposed to be an addition to my silly comments.

First of all most of those people who reverted to Islam only changed their religion. Not the concept they were born in to and taught, which is creationism. So they have limited thinking as well.

Secondly what does someone else does, have to do with your ability to think for yourself? Can you deny the fact that you can never take an unbiased decision about a religious matter? You cannot think outside that box. You are not allowed.

Thirdly, hundreds, thousands or millions of people can do the same thing. That does not mean they are doing the right thing neither is it a proof that since you are one of them, you are right or that you can think outside box. I'm surprised that you didn't even realize this simple logic, but then well your thinking is limited its not your fault. It's how Allah made you.

[FONT=&quot]It’s simple. I told you in my past reply that to judge God we have four definitions, if your God is matching with this four definition yes it is God, otherwise it is ceased to be god. Come on man this doesn’t required to be mentioned in my book, common sense. GOD cant be more than one, should not die, begets not nor he begotten and we can’t compare anything to him. Same thing is mentioned in Quran as well as below.
[/FONT]
"Say: He is Allah, the One and Only. "Allah, the Eternal, Absolute. "He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him." [Al-Qur’an 112:1-4]

Did you just say it should not be in the book and then put out a verse from the book?? This must be a new level of common sense.

Tell me where did you find this definition of GOD?

 

[I love Srilanka]

Here's the thing. you can never come to a neutral position because that will mean you are doubting allah.

for this argument, I needed to come to a neutral position & see.and still had to go with God undoubtedly.

Are you sure?


Yes


[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
And answer to the question why you believe scriptures are true, is because it is written in scriptures. That's just proves what you have is blind faith.
The book says book is true therefore the book is true. You see logic in that?


one thing as I earlier pointed out, this planet would have not created by chance and convinced with it has been created by someone. other thing of course Quran agree with the scientific fact which has been established so far.and trust the balance also such as God,heaven,hell,day of judgement will be proved by science very soon inshallah.


This is all what a muslim will say. Only someone who cannot think for himself will say quaran has no mistakes, and it mentions scientific facts etc. You keep bringing this, but I haven't seen any of it. And I studied the quaran from a neutral position, something you can never do.


even I never seen any mistakes,but i have seen people who came with many errors, proved to be wrong. if you have anything i would like to see here.



Just when I said, a person who is covered by blind faith, will look in the quran and try to justify the flows in the world you do exactly that. Bravo..



As far as I understand almost 85% of the world population are theist.are you saying to all this people. i dont think all this people are fools.



I meant I don't see the way universe operate as a proof of a being who is up in the sky, and making it happen. If you see that as a logical explanation, that logic is beyond me.


Ok.are you saying everything happening by chance, why not sun is taking rest or falling sick sometime as you and me. anyway i don't like to write more on this, anyway if our logic is wrong, let me see your logic



Because you are repeatedly showing how deep you are in a mud pit full of blind faith.

again you are labelling to all this 85% of population. then hope to see your logical proof as i requested above on behalf of your 15% intelligent people.



I just don't see you have anything other than your blind faith to back your claims. You learned from a book from the day you were born and you find a way to define the world by that book. You interpret everything in the book to suit the way you wanna see it. And the only proof you have for the authenticity of the book is that book says it is true. And you don't see a flow in that logic. So there's no other explanation. It is blind faith. I wanna discuss that. That is my agenda.

it is not our mistake if you don't have a good book to guide you people in straight path.



[FONT=&quot]

You sure does show your colors in understanding logic. You couldn't even understand my reply and you are babbling these useless rants. Here is it broken down so this time you won't miss it.


I understood your reply clearly.

(1) You wanted to say unseen(NOT seen by you) things can exist. To explain this you used Moscow. You haven't seen Moscow but you know it is there.

yeah still i go with that,i can have faith on unseen things

(2) I explained that the reason for you to believe moscow is there is because even thought you haven't seen moscow you have evidence for its existence. Concrete 100%. TV,Internet and other things were just examples to show there is evidence.


because you have evidence now you concretely trust moscow exist, just before TV, internet and other thing invented, there is no way that you would have trusted that moscow exist. if we happened to argue for the same some centuries back.you would have rejected that Moscow exist as you do now for GOD.


(3) If you'd like to give this logical thinking some go, you'll understand the logic behind my argument. which is,
Unseen things can exist, but as long as we do not have concrete evidence for their existence there is no reason to believe it. And furthermore I wanted to explain that is why the comparison of Moscow to GOD(Done by you) was not suitable.


same thing as i told you above, some centuries back if there was no proof for existence of moscow as tv, internet and otherthings were not available. you would have denied the fact that moscow does exist as you do now for God. but for me, even with some limited evidence i would have accepted with moscow exist.such as some one who is a honest and dependent say that moscow exist or even there is no much enough strong evidence to show moscow doesn't exist.




Now without seeing this clear logic, you were thinking the big words in my reply were TV and Internet and Tourists and you were following those words. This is how much you are damaged by the limited thinking promoted through your book. You can't even see the simple thing that makes sense.


I don't accept that im a limited thinker or i am wrong. I may accept that you are good in vocabulary English than me.but not in the right logic or thought.



In this case I would say I don't believe it because there is not evidence. What you failed to see was in that case you would not bring that example to strengthen your claim. Coz even you are not sure moscow is there.


already answered.. so only when you have evidence you will trust anything. immediately after it is proved to be moscow exist, then you will come and change your statement moscow exist. ha!ha! strange..anyway in the case of God don't be so ignorance, before you get to know that God exists, you may die, then you will be looser. act quickly that's old I can say you before it is too late.



The point is with out evidence there is no reason to believe. That is not a denial. The question whether GOD exists or not remains answered. Not proven neither disproven. But however there is logic that suggests GOD concept is highly unprobable. But of course its not easy to understand for someone who is not willing to keep an open mind to see pass the faith and see this logic.


also I dont know whether you have evidence to tell God doesn't exist. let me see your highly probable concept if ours are unprobable. pls state logical points in summary format for non existence of God.



[FONT=Trebuchet MS[SIZE=4]Does that prove anything? They didn't deny the existance of Flying Spaghetti Monster either. The other thing is you can not speak of scientists in general, some of them strongly ridicule the GOD.


I am confused are you arguing in favour athiest or FSM. I hope when we say God , let it be FSM or cow or Jesus come under the same category.in general it is called as God, which was not denied by scientist yet.



I'm not saying your thinking is limited. I'm saying your thinking is limited with respect to the subject of GOD. You can never come out of that box, and take a walk in the neutral path. It is forbidden to you. So your thinking is limited.


yeah it is forbidden to us to associate partners with God.


FONT=Trebuchet MS]Well and you say your thinking is not limited and you come up with this. Ironically this is supposed to be an addition to my silly comments.
[/FONT] First of all most of those people who reverted to Islam only changed their religion. Not the concept they were born in to and taught, which is creationism. So they have limited thinking as well.


really. you are great! then what abt the people who revert from athiest.


Secondly what does someone else does, have to do with your ability to think for yourself? Can you deny the fact that you can never take an unbiased decision about a religious matter? You cannot think outside that box. You are not allowed.


Without thinking out side my box how did i answer you? then I should be a sin person by now just bec I chat with you now for thinking outside my box. dont repeat your box accusation again.we can think anything except associating partners with God(zirk).



Thirdly, hundreds, thousands or millions of people can do the same thing. That does not mean they are doing the right thing neither is it a proof that since you are one of them, you are right or that you can think outside box. I'm surprised that you didn't even realize this simple logic, but then well your thinking is limited its not your fault. It's how Allah made you.




one more new accusation from u, allah made us with fault. hope you are not KG student.



Did you just say it should not be in the book and then put out a verse from the book?? This must be a new level of common sense.

Tell me where did you find this definition of GOD?


Just because if something is mentioned in Quran, you cant deny the fact. to be honest with you, first I got the versus in the quran even i mentioned in my earlier post as well and it is exactly the same attributes that can be given to God by an average person who has bit of knowledge.
you are not going to deny any scientific established fact just because it has been even mentioned in Quran unless you are a biased or fool.

 

[AncientGlory]

I am confused are you arguing in favour athiest or FSM. I hope when we say God , let it be FSM or cow or Jesus come under the same category.in general it is called as God, which was not denied by scientist yet.

Even thought I answered to you from an atheistic point of view, for the purpose of this thread, I'm theistic and I believe in FSM. I challenge you to prove FSM is false and Allah is true. This is the topic of the thread. So lets stick to it. All other points are interesting but we can maybe discuss those in another thread.

something can’t create itself. Everything has to have a producer/manufacturer.

Are you sure?

Yes

Then who is the creator of GOD?

 

[AncientGlory]

All these points are offtopic, so I don't mind if you do not reply. We can always discuss these later.

for this argument, I needed to come to a neutral position & see.and still had to go with God undoubtedly.

Without thinking out side my box how did i answer you? then I should be a sin person by now just bec I chat with you now for thinking outside my box. dont repeat your box accusation again.we can think anything except associating partners with God(zirk).

I don't accept that im a limited thinker or i am wrong. I may accept that you are good in vocabulary English than me.but not in the right logic or thought.

yeah it is forbidden to us to associate partners with God.

My point was that, you are forbidden to go to a neutral point.

one thing as I earlier pointed out, this planet would have not created by chance and convinced with it has been created by someone. other thing of course Quran agree with the scientific fact which has been established so far.and trust the balance also such as God,heaven,hell,day of judgement will be proved by science very soon inshallah.

even I never seen any mistakes,but i have seen people who came with many errors, proved to be wrong. if you have anything i would like to see here.

Ok.are you saying everything happening by chance, why not sun is taking rest or falling sick sometime as you and me. anyway i don't like to write more on this, anyway if our logic is wrong, let me see your logic

also I dont know whether you have evidence to tell God doesn't exist. let me see your highly probable concept if ours are unprobable. pls state logical points in summary format for non existence of God.

We can agree to disagree. I haven't seen any scientific truths in quran. And I have seen errors. And I have not seen them successfully refuted. But you see it differently. Let's leave it to that since all this is off topic. Also I don't see why I should prove GOD does not exist. I do not care whether he exists or not. I think it is you who should prove his existence since it is your claim not mine.

As far as I understand almost 85% of the world population are theist.are you saying to all this people. i dont think all this people are fools.

again you are labelling to all this 85% of population. then hope to see your logical proof as i requested above on behalf of your 15% intelligent people.

As far as I know, Islam is the only religion that burden the followers with rules and forbids unbiased thinking. So the number 85% plays no role here.

I understood your reply clearly.

yeah still i go with that,i can have faith on unseen things

because you have evidence now you concretely trust moscow exist, just before TV, internet and other thing invented, there is no way that you would have trusted that moscow exist. if we happened to argue for the same some centuries back.you would have rejected that Moscow exist as you do now for GOD.

same thing as i told you above, some centuries back if there was no proof for existence of moscow as tv, internet and otherthings were not available. you would have denied the fact that moscow does exist as you do now for God. but for me, even with some limited evidence i would have accepted with moscow exist.such as some one who is a honest and dependent say that moscow exist or even there is no much enough strong evidence to show moscow doesn't exist.

already answered.. so only when you have evidence you will trust anything. immediately after it is proved to be moscow exist, then you will come and change your statement moscow exist. ha!ha! strange..anyway in the case of God don't be so ignorance, before you get to know that God exists, you may die, then you will be looser. act quickly that's old I can say you before it is too late.

I tried to explain my point.

Just because if something is mentioned in Quran, you cant deny the fact. to be honest with you, first I got the versus in the quran even i mentioned in my earlier post as well and it is exactly the same attributes that can be given to God by an average person who has bit of knowledge.

With all due respect, this is pure bullshit. I don't think you believe this. I'm not gonna argue about this either.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Even thought I answered to you from an atheistic point of view, for the purpose of this thread, I'm theistic and I believe in FSM. I challenge you to prove FSM is false and Allah is true. This is the topic of the thread. So lets stick to it. All other points are interesting but we can maybe discuss those in another thread.

Don't you feel you are a mischief? though you are believing in theistic, still you went on to challenge me theistic concept are wrong. so you can argue from the point of view of anything whether let it be right or wrong just for sake of refuting some one and succeed in the argument. ridiculous!

regarding your FSM.What we have here is difference in naming the Eternal, we call him Allah because it is one of His unique attributes-as it roughly means only one. We know Him by His attributes and we call/name Him by His attributes. You can call Him the Eternal or the Most Beneficent, the Creator etc. Allah tells us that all good names belong to Him. Therefore, we should call Him by something which illustrates one of His unique Attributes, which are found in the scripture, and not call Him by some mambo jambo. you may refer to my earlier verse from the Qur'an, which clearly tells us some of His attributes.


Then who is the creator of GOD?

One of the attributes of Allah is that He is Eternal. By definition Eternal is forever with no beginning; therefore the question is absurd. Only temporal/non-eternal beings are created. By logic, everyone agrees with the fact that there was something Eternal which gave life to this universe and its inhabitants. We believe that this Eternal is Everlasting and intelligent Being and we call Him Allah. my name is John so I hope you wont ask me whether i gave birth to baby? only a mental disorder person can ask this question.

 

[I love Srilanka]

All these points are offtopic, so I don't mind if you do not reply. We can always discuss these later.

Have I missed something?.I think you only you missed out many while you replied to this. anyway I dont mind. answer yourself, my purpose is not to win the argument but to say truth thts old.


My point was that, you are forbidden to go to a neutral point.

As I told you we are forbidden to associate partners with God. and also normally we don't doubt allah. as I and you don't doubt our mom as to whether really she is mom.


We can agree to disagree. I haven't seen any scientific truths in quran. And I have seen errors. And I have not seen them successfully refuted. But you see it differently. Let's leave it to that since all this is off topic. Also I don't see why I should prove GOD does not exist. I do not care whether he exists or not. I think it is you who should prove his existence since it is your claim not mine.

neither it is my claim that God doesn't exist..Quite ridiculous that you haven't seen any scientific truth in quran. even a normal non muslim who reject the islam maximum who will say at least 1 or 2 scientific truths are in Quran. You are saying Zero. how dare you are. can you prove me? or shall i tell you one scientific proof( you said zero truth) and prove you are a liar. I will not tolerate any more until you prove No science truth in Quran and errors in Quran.I will immediately start a new TOPIC, we will discuss that 1st.

As far as I know, Islam is the only religion that burden the followers with rules and forbids unbiased thinking. So the number 85% plays no role here.

Joke. only to your knowledge know then OK.

I tried to explain my point.

so you are sure you will not be looser. Inshallah I will pray for you. if you still die with your same mind.I cant help u, we can meet at the day of judgement, I will witness that I told you God(allah) is exist.but you refused.



With all due respect, this is pure bullshit. I don't think you believe this. I'm not gonna argue about this either.

FYI bullshit hasn't prove anything..then don't argue. who will care your argument.

 

[AncientGlory]

Don't you feel you are a mischief? though you are believing in theistic, still you went on to challenge me theistic concept are wrong. so you can argue from the point of view of anything whether let it be right or wrong just for sake of refuting some one and succeed in the argument. ridiculous!

regarding your FSM.What we have here is difference in naming the Eternal, we call him Allah because it is one of His unique attributes-as it roughly means only one. We know Him by His attributes and we call/name Him by His attributes. You can call Him the Eternal or the Most Beneficent, the Creator etc. Allah tells us that all good names belong to Him. Therefore, we should call Him by something which illustrates one of His unique Attributes, which are found in the scripture, and not call Him by some mambo jambo. you may refer to my earlier verse from the Qur'an, which clearly tells us some of His attributes.

One of the attributes of Allah is that He is Eternal. By definition Eternal is forever with no beginning; therefore the question is absurd. Only temporal/non-eternal beings are created. By logic, everyone agrees with the fact that there was something Eternal which gave life to this universe and its inhabitants. We believe that this Eternal is Everlasting and intelligent Being and we call Him Allah. my name is John so I hope you wont ask me whether i gave birth to baby? only a mental disorder person can ask this question.

I give up. You are right.

 

[I love Srilanka]

I give up. You are right.

Thanks...!

 

[Wal Bada]

regarding your FSM.What we have here is difference in naming the Eternal, we call him Allah because it is one of His unique attributes-as it roughly means only one.

But FSM forbids Salath, forbids oppression of women, forbids hijab and forbids circumsicion. So FSM cannot be Allah. Or can he be?

We know Him by His attributes and we call/name Him by His attributes. You can call Him the Eternal or the Most Beneficent, the Creator etc. Allah tells us that all good names belong to Him. Therefore, we should call Him by something which illustrates one of His unique Attributes, which are found in the scripture, and not call Him by some mambo jambo. you may refer to my earlier verse from the Qur'an, which clearly tells us some of His attributes.

But FSM is the best name we can give for a person. FSM is a sacred name!

One of the attributes of Allah is that He is Eternal. By definition Eternal is forever with no beginning;

Says the book. What are the evidence you have beside the book to say Allah is eternal, most forgiving blah blah?

therefore the question is absurd. Only temporal/non-eternal beings are created.

Once agains definition given by the book. FSM's book give s different definition to it, and FSM is the most powerful, forgiving and loving.

By logic, everyone agrees with the fact that there was something Eternal which gave life to this universe and its inhabitants.

When did everyone agree with that? Care to show your evidence? Majority DON"T believe that Allah created the universe.

We believe that this Eternal is Everlasting and intelligent Being and we call Him Allah.

But I don't believe that he's Omnipotent. So Allah should have his own creator. There's no evidence you can prove that Allah is such beyond Quran.

my name is John so I hope you wont ask me whether i gave birth to baby? only a mental disorder person can ask this question

Females are named John in FSM believers. So John gave a birth to a baby. Ypu see how absurd is your logic?

 

[කිඹුලා බනිස්]

regarding your FSM.What we have here is difference in naming the Eternal, we call him Allah because it is one of His unique attributes-as it roughly means only one. We know Him by His attributes and we call/name Him by His attributes. You can call Him the Eternal or the Most Beneficent, the Creator etc. Allah tells us that all good names belong to Him. Therefore, we should call Him by something which illustrates one of His unique Attributes, which are found in the scripture, and not call Him by some mambo jambo. you may refer to my earlier verse from the Qur'an, which clearly tells us some of His attributes.

.

Who is this guy? FSM and Allah, ROTFLMAO!

Hey genius! FSM is a fictitious GOD created by Atheist community to mock the fictitious god created by muhammed!

 

[AncientGlory]

@ Wal Bada and කිඹුලා බනිස්,

For some reason I don't believe I love Srilanka is the correct person to discuss this logic with. But good luck to you.