Whether parents are beleivers or not they are held of the same high esteem ! Dont let your bias blind you !
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Whether parents are beleivers or not they are held of the same high esteem ! Dont let your bias blind you !
Sounds like a set of rules. Why dont you follow Roman Law. It will also engage in every aspect of your life, and help in your spiritual and social life and other bla bla
At least lightning oil lamps at temple is better than praising a pedophile
Let the christian, buddhst, jews workers in Muslim countries to live in your so called peace and harmonyI hope you remember how some bunch of idiotic muslims interfere the New year festival in Kuwait recently.
That's becouse muslims birth rate is high and the babies born 2 muslims are forced to be muslims.
Simply barbaric. no wonder the founder himself was also a barbarian who beheaded 900 innocents
ur arguments are exactly that ! bla bla bla arguments,sure u know nothing of roman law !
If thats what you consider paedophile then probably your grandmother or great grandmother who got married off just as she hit puberty whilst she was 12 -13 were also married to paedophiles !
Which part of 'becoming muslim' didnt you understand ? well either by birth rate or number of 'adults accepting islam'
Well thats how much he sancitity of marriage is valued in islam! for adultery its stoning to death , for rape its beheading , for robbery its cutting off the limb ! because of such stern punishment the countries have the lowest crime rates in the world.If people see it as barbaric,then id like to hear the reaction of the person whose marriage was violated . who was robbed a fortune . and a rape victim ! Not YOUR perception
I'm confused!
Basically what you saying here is there maybe verses in Quran as such but those might be implying something else.. and that's exactly why people can twist and turn the verses of Quran to their liking...
Do you or do you not believe what Quran says? If Quran gives you warning signs that Allah will punish you and it implies that its not going to happen but a mere warning sign.. then what's the purpose?
Quran also has many good verses... so those imply something else too? why this "whole context" thing only jumps out of the bag when violence related verses are questioned?
People will resort to violence whether or not its permissible by religion.. TRUE!, but setting rules of engagement in a holy book is recipe for disaster, it is clearly said in Quran to protect Islam at all cost... violence in this case is allowed and you know it!
So the million dollar question is... Who defines "threat to Islam" and how?
Bin Laden for example... says he is waging a holy war on all enemies of Islam.. from Islam's point of view, I think he is doing the right thing.. because its condoned.. but bigger issue here is.. he might be taking revenge while riding on this whole holy war thing.. who's going to question him? its in the book itself!
A BIG LOOPHOLE!
WRONG!
Issue is there in Buddhism, except its presented as it is as oppose to Islam, you are accountable for your actions.. that's what Buddhism says! You fight even in your self-defense if your intention was to kill the man.. you are guilty.. rules are same for everyone.. you cannot run away from yourself, from your conscious, you take even a step out of anger you know it!
In the core of Buddhism this is clearly described..
"Mano pubbangama dhamma, Mano setta, Mano maya" = Mind precede everything
Take the same rational in Islam it should be... even if you kill technically you cannot be held accountable because you are someone else's creation... creator is responsible for its creation's actions.. very simple!
It's barbaric, ugly and uncivilized!
You cut off a man's limb because he stole... he might not be able to make a living his entire life even if the man wants to be a better person.. if the man has family it gets worse!
Best thing to do is rehab the person and add him back into society to help as useful person who can contribute to the economy of the country in some way!
YES! I will be mad if my wife get raped, or If I get robbed..
I might say that fellow must be hanged.. but that's just emotions.. the right thing to do is far from sudden emotions!
And also its hilarious to see you talking about lowest crime rates, well that's true.. crime are low... but that doesn't mean that justice is served properly
we see many examples from our own women that makes a living there.. I hardly see any Saudis get beheaded for raping and mutilating our women... though I've seen the opposite quite frequently!
Rele??කන්න හිතුනම කබරයා තලගොයා වෙනවා
නෑ නෑ කන්න හිතුනම ඌරත් හලාල් වෙනවා කියලා තමා දැන් කියන්නේ...
yes it is violent...but its between you and the God you may or may not have betrayed....
if you created something...gave it everything to live with...loved it to its very end...only to see it mock and ridicule you...of course you would be pissed....if you factor in the fact humans are capable of mocking worse...its no wonder God wants to skin non-believers alive....
its also a form of warning....like a road sign that shows a bump ahead....it doesn't matter what you wish that bump is there....you can follow the rules and go slow....and avoid damage...or you can drive like an idiot and get banged up....who's fault is it?.....your fault or the bump's...?...
and my conscious is clean....coz i know the Quran....and i read it with the message it gives....its not what you think it is....i will try to explain but if you refuce to believe it its your fault...doesn't change the truth i know and accept.....
utter bullshit. In your books it is said god decides every mans fate. So as to your book it is gods will that we are non believers. So summary he created nonbelievers to burn them in hell...
Harry Potter is a good book. Does not have contradictions. And also full of magic...
LMAO....that 72 virgins thing is a gag.....
i don't think its real.....nothing in Islam says that.....
ඔය කරගත්තේ... ඔයා හරාම්...
utter bullshit. In your books it is said god decides every mans fate. So as to your book it is gods will that we are non believers. So summary he created nonbelievers to burn them in hell...
Harry Potter is a good book. Does not have contradictions. And also full of magic...
LMAO!
It's barbaric, ugly and uncivilized!
You cut off a man's limb because he stole... he might not be able to make a living his entire life even if the man wants to be a better person.. if the man has family it gets worse!
Best thing to do is rehab the person and add him back into society to help as useful person who can contribute to the economy of the country in some way!
YES! I will be mad if my wife get raped, or If I get robbed..
I might say that fellow must be hanged.. but that's just emotions.. the right thing to do is far from sudden emotions!
And also its hilarious to see you talking about lowest crime rates, well that's true.. crime are low... but that doesn't mean that justice is served properly
I hardly see any Saudis get beheaded for raping and mutilating our women... though I've seen the opposite quite frequently!
LMAO....every prison on earth has repeat offenders....that is the whole populace of a prison basically....
the police go grab a criminal...toss em in jail...only for them to stay there a day or two...then some hot shot minister springs them loose again....or they serve their punishment fully and go out and do the same thing again....
your dream world concept of reforming repeat offenders like that is praiseworthy for having such a positive outlook....but that is not what happens....
the woman who gets raped etc...loses her life....what she stood for....everything...where is her life can the law give it back?
the person who gets robbed.....feels almost as violated.....and see his family and business go down the drain as he cannot support it....where is his confidence and the years of hard work put into getting that fortune....can the law give it back?
or how about a wife who is faithful only to have her man go sleep around with others....is a divorce enough?....let this animal go around marrying and doing the same thing again...coz it always happens.....its human nature...look at what tiger woods did....?
in Islamic law...the punishments have a three-fold message...
1) Its a warning to the people around ot to this type of crime
2) It brings the victims some assurance, and gives them back the confidence to go back to living their lives
3) It helps the criminal repent.....due to the pain he endures....and coz well...nobody who gets punished like this ever repeats the same type of crime every again....
God is wise....He created you....He knows how to give the right medicine at the right time...and how to look after you after you get fed the medicine...
its barbaric yes....but so are the crimes against another man....
I'm confused!
Quran also has many good verses... so those imply something else too? why this "whole context" thing only jumps out of the bag when violence related verses are questioned?
People will resort to violence whether or not its permissible by religion.. TRUE!, but setting rules of engagement in a holy book is recipe for disaster, it is clearly said in Quran to protect Islam at all cost... violence in this case is allowed and you know it!
well that IS the context of the Quran in the first place....the "good verses" which make up 80% of the Quran IS the context by which we read the "bad verses" as you say......we cannot move against the "good verses",...which us to be tolerant...worship God...be good to your fellow man etc etc....even when try to act upon the "bad verses".....
So the million dollar question is... Who defines "threat to Islam" and how?
Bin Laden for example... says he is waging a holy war on all enemies of Islam.. from Islam's point of view, I think he is doing the right thing.. because its condoned.. but bigger issue here is.. he might be taking revenge while riding on this whole holy war thing.. who's going to question him? its in the book itself!
the biggest threat to Islam is not what you think it is....the biggest threat to Islam is the very person itself....the way i have to fight my own self to overcome my passions etc....that is the biggest threat....
and who said Osama Bin laden is fighting any holy war...if it was...even i would be there with him....
the threat to Islam from an external point of view is anyone who tries hijack our religion...so far nobody has the balls to try it...non even creeps like Osama bin Laden....
wrong (sorry couldn't resist)
lol...in Islam if a man surrenders himself we do not kill him in cold blood...not allowed even if it had been a fight for our own defense....this IS because as you say we are God's slaves....His creations nobody has the right to take our lives away....not even our own selves....
but we ARE given free will....we can act as we want...but we are responsible how we do it...so if you kill someone who tries to kill you....we may be judged on how we do it....if we kill him unnecessarily....then of course you get the appropriate punishment from God.....
Buddhism is so wrong when it comes to self defense....its selfish really....for example....if you live in a neighborhood....and you know next door to you lives a handicapped mother and her young daughter....
if a group of LTTE cadres break into your neighborhood and go house to house killing people....and when they break into your home...they somehow don't kill you and let you live...and move on to your neighbors next door....the Buddhist thing would be for you to not to fight & if you do it is wrong what justice is this coz you just condemned that mother and her daughter to die?
in an Islamic neighborhood....every Muslim would have fought...to protect who can't fight....and to save their neighborhood....and their country....from losing unnecessary lives....
PS:- i tot i already told you....the punishments in the Quran are very real.....you warn someone only when there is danger....to warn someone without the danger is to threaten...not warn...you really need to read the dictionary on the exact words....
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Hats off to Diamond
I have learnt a lot from ..
I think is to keep away your ego n talk freely !!
Anyways.. Is it true that another maithree would come ?
& is it true that there were other Buddha's before Siddartha Became a Lord Buddha.
Yes.. since Zakir is talking about buddhism... why dont there is a debate on that !!
anyways.. we are not duds to believe on a religon. We seeked the truth and that y we believe it !!
Thanks machan
I have learnt a lot from ..
I think is to keep away your ego n talk freely !!
Anyways.. Is it true that another maithree would come ?
& is it true that there were other Buddha's before Siddartha Became a Lord Buddha.
Yes.. since Zakir is talking about buddhism... why dont there is a debate on that !!
anyways.. we are not duds to believe on a religon. We seeked the truth and that y we believe it !!
Thanks machan
A positive outlook is everything.. there are cases which we can never rectify.. but there are also ones that can..
Just because some cannot be rehabilitated you want to chop limbs of all of them? that's just utterly stupid!
Ok! so you chop the limb off the offender or even hang him, does that bring back the guy whom he murdered? or heal the physical and mental scars of the women he raped?
And why are you so worried about marriages, Muslim men can marry more than one woman.. well yes only if they can afford to.. but what kind of sickening feeling that the children will have to go through with multiple mothers and a single father... how come these angles aren't covered in Quran?
Well I'm not surprised... If the prophet never cared about children why should you..
in Islamic law...the punishments have a three-fold message...
1) Its a warning to the people around ot to this type of crime
2) It brings the victims some assurance, and gives them back the confidence to go back to living their lives
3) It helps the criminal repent.....due to the pain he endures....and coz well...nobody who gets punished like this ever repeats the same type of crime every again....
God is wise....He created you....He knows how to give the right medicine at the right time...and how to look after you after you get fed the medicine...
It doesn't matter even if its 10 fold
Violence is violence.. besides again... getting back to a discussion we had some time ago...
If GOD wanted he could have avoided all this... why he didn't?
Exactly! that's what Islam is all about an EYE for an EYE!
I hope you are proud of it
LMAO...yes many examples are there.....hand selected by certain Jews and Christians...who twist words as expertly as Osama bin Laden....
you have no right to criticize a religion you know nothing about.....right?
and yes you are the enemy of God....think about it....if Islam is right....God created you...gave you life...a family....and a way to live life...he gives you money....a job ect etc......and you betray him by bashing Islam like this....what else can you expect to be but an enemy of God...?
God is always Just.....if only people like you think a little before you get angry and try to criticize something you don't know anything about....except from certain hand picked sites.....
A positive outlook is everything.. there are cases which we can never rectify.. but there are also ones that can..
Just because some cannot be rehabilitated you want to chop limbs of all of them? that's just utterly stupid!
a positive outlook is good and commendable....doesn't mean its real....this world is not a just place....and its not all rainbows...faeries and unicorns....you just have to step out into the streets to see that.....
and God only talks in relation to the real world...not made up world of roses etc....why this hardship...coz its a test....remember...
Ok! so you chop the limb off the offender or even hang him, does that bring back the guy whom he murdered? or heal the physical and mental scars of the women he raped?
And why are you so worried about marriages, Muslim men can marry more than one woman.. well yes only if they can afford to.. but what kind of sickening feeling that the children will have to go through with multiple mothers and a single father... how come these angles aren't covered in Quran?
You shop off his limb...can he steal again....even if he can...will he?....
and you also have to note...these punishments are up to the people who have been wronged....if the criminal is caught he can ask for forgiveness....majority of the time they get forgiven...and then God can forgive that criminal as well...but if the victim asks for it....sorry.com....
and when it comes to rape victims...did you know they get angry at life...very angry....its part of the symptom of rape victims...recently in Venezuela a rapist was stabbed to death by a group of women.....
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...-suspected-rapist-in-venezuela_100151799.html
this is the real reaction...and the God who created you knows the emotions you will feel....hence the punishment to rapists....and married couples....adultery is still adultery....you may insult my religion by pulling the polygamy argument...but still doesn't change the fact it is a crime...that warrants punishment...for the justice of the children & the wife we cheated....
bottom line...cry all you want...the people who got punished this was are criminals...who have been caught red handed in the act....and after multiple trials....so no question they deserve it....Buddhism can keep looking at unicorns ...but reality needs its transactions....
Well I'm not surprised... If the prophet never cared about children why should you..
no unnecessary insults on the prophet please....and no the prophet loved kids.....he loved his only grand sons alot....he is said to have never cried at funerals except at the funerals of his grand sons and of other kids....
and he would tell parents not to hit or abuse their kids either....so yes he cared....and these are God's laws...not the prophet's....
coz once again same answer.....its a test....of what we do with our free will.....if he didn't want this violence etc...he would have kept us in Heaven with the angels..not in this murky earth....
if man wants to go to war with his free will....its man's fault....God doesn't not interfere with free will....
Exactly! that's what Islam is all about an EYE for an EYE!
I hope you are proud of it
yes i am proud of it.....why shouldn't i be....as i said...its not always eye for an eye....its an eye for an eye only if the victims want it or if the criminal won't stop doing harm....to protect others from the criminals actions....and to grant a gateway of repentance and understanding of their actions criminals need to learn their lessons as it were....
sugar coating the world like how Buddhism tries to do doesn't work.....coz the world is NOT sugar coated....
Firstly I don't know how you exactly counted 80% of Quran are good verses, I never said that..
But its OK, for the sake of argument lets just say it's 80%, so 20% is disputed.. confusing... it says god's gonna skin you alive but when someone ask you.. you point to that 80%
This is hilarious!
YES SINCE THESE VERSES ARE THERE PEOPLE MAY BE AFRAID TO SIN.. THAT IS UNDERSTOOD!
BUT GOD WILL STILL SKIN YOU! VIOLENCE.. VIOLENCE... AND VIOLENCE!!
BARBARIC!
Now you'll tell me that it's GOD's creation and he will do whatever he wants... then I will tell you that he couldn't control his own creation the way he wanted to... he ain't no almighty!
the biggest threat to Islam is not what you think it is....the biggest threat to Islam is the very person itself....the way i have to fight my own self to overcome my passions etc....that is the biggest threat....
and who said Osama Bin laden is fighting any holy war...if it was...even i would be there with him....
the threat to Islam from an external point of view is anyone who tries hijack our religion...so far nobody has the balls to try it...non even creeps like Osama bin Laden....
That's not the answer to my question.. I asked exactly who and by what defines a threat to Islam which prompts its followers to take arms..
How did you identified that Osama is not fighting for the cause that he claims?
To me he only does what Quran says... he see Americans as infidels and he is trying to protect Islam from it... now you may give other reasons (I can too) but I and obviously him can still relate his action to holy grail of Islam...
That really is a shame.. he does that because Quran has that loophole which assholes like him can exploit!
wrong (sorry couldn't resist)
lol...in Islam if a man surrenders himself we do not kill him in cold blood...not allowed even if it had been a fight for our own defense....this IS because as you say we are God's slaves....His creations nobody has the right to take our lives away....not even our own selves....
but we ARE given free will....we can act as we want...but we are responsible how we do it...so if you kill someone who tries to kill you....we may be judged on how we do it....if we kill him unnecessarily....then of course you get the appropriate punishment from God.....
Well... the difference is Buddhism doesn't say you are anybody's slaves
It's a shame really that even Prophet condoned slavery in Islam... but those aside..
According to what you say here.. what do you mean "if we kill him unnecessarily" so there is necessary killing
license to kill from the book itself that's what exactly we trying to say... why can't god just appear and punish the offender was it difficult for a god of Allah's stature? Well... haven't you seen how LTTE paid with for their sins?
And there's a fine example of Karma in action..
Ok lets look at your little scenario here... If you interfere with LTTE to save the mother and daughter, LTTE will kill both of them anyway, and they will kill you and your wife and your children too... now you are are accountable for yourself, your wife and your childrens death.. because you took a step with anger!
How does it sounds now?
in an Islamic neighborhood....every Muslim would have fought...to protect who can't fight....and to save their neighborhood....and their country....from losing unnecessary lives....
Now how does this differ from what Bin Laden is doing? do you mind explaining a bit?
Irrelevant stuff here....
What I'm asking is... GOD created human.. gives them free will... and when they choose not to choose him.... he punishes!
Then what's the point of giving free will
What I'm asking is... GOD created human.. gives them free will... and when they choose not to choose him.... he punishes!
Then what's the point of giving free will
Thats why the Almighty God is the biggest jerk in the world..!! Smite me o'almighty and scratch my back...
Firstly I don't know how you exactly counted 80% of Quran are good verses, I never said that..
But its OK, for the sake of argument lets just say it's 80%, so 20% is disputed.. confusing... it says god's gonna skin you alive but when someone ask you.. you point to that 80%
This is hilarious!
YES SINCE THESE VERSES ARE THERE PEOPLE MAY BE AFRAID TO SIN.. THAT IS UNDERSTOOD!
BUT GOD WILL STILL SKIN YOU! VIOLENCE.. VIOLENCE... AND VIOLENCE!!
BARBARIC!
Now you'll tell me that it's GOD's creation and he will do whatever he wants... then I will tell you that he couldn't control his own creation the way he wanted to... he ain't no almighty!
That's not the answer to my question.. I asked exactly who and by what defines a threat to Islam which prompts its followers to take arms..
How did you identified that Osama is not fighting for the cause that he claims?
To me he only does what Quran says... he see Americans as infidels and he is trying to protect Islam from it... now you may give other reasons (I can too) but I and obviously him can still relate his action to holy grail of Islam...
That really is a shame.. he does that because Quran has that loophole which assholes like him can exploit!
Well... the difference is Buddhism doesn't say you are anybody's slaves
It's a shame really that even Prophet condoned slavery in Islam... but those aside..
According to what you say here.. what do you mean "if we kill him unnecessarily" so there is necessary killing
Well... haven't you seen how LTTE paid with for their sins?
And there's a fine example of Karma in action..
Ok lets look at your little scenario here... If you interfere with LTTE to save the mother and daughter, LTTE will kill both of them anyway, and they will kill you and your wife and your children too... now you are are accountable for yourself, your wife and your childrens death.. because you took a step with anger!
How does it sounds now?
Now how does this differ from what Bin Laden is doing? do you mind explaining a bit?
Irrelevant stuff here....
What I'm asking is... GOD created human.. gives them free will... and when they choose not to choose him.... he punishes!
Then what's the point of giving free will
from http://hamzatzortzis.blogspot.com/2009/09/philosophical-theological-response-to.html
A Philosophical & Theological Response to the 'Problem of Evil'
By Hamza Andreas Tzortzis
In the philosophy of religion ‘natural atheology’ is defined as the branch of philosophy that attempts to prove the central beliefs of theists (people who believe in a God) as false [1]. One of the most impressive and strongest arguments of natural atheology is to do with the problem of evil.
The problem of evil claims that it is unbelievable, if an omnipotent and good God exists, that he would permit so much pain and suffering in the world. The famous philosopher David Hume in his ‘Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion’ aptly puts it,
“Epicurus’s old questions are yet unanswered. Is he willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?”[2]
The problem of evil is without a doubt one of the key intellectual obstacles that a Muslim or theist has to overcome in order to be convinced that God exists (or convince others for that matter). There are two versions of the problem of evil, the internal problem of evil and the external problem of evil.
The internal problem of evil is presented as an argument whose premises the Muslim is committed to due to his belief in Islam. The external problem of evil is presented as an argument whose premises the Muslim is not committed to but can have good reasons to believe the premises to be true.
The Internal Problem of Evil
The internal problem of evil presents its premises as follows:
1. A good God that is omnipotent exist
2. Evil exists
3. Therefore a good God that is omnipotent doesn’t exist
H. J. McCloskey in his article ‘God and Evil’ summarises the problem well,
“Evil is a problem for the theist in that a contradiction is involved in the fact of evil, on the one hand, and the belief in the omnipotence and perfection of God on the other.”[3]
Responding to the Internal Problem of Evil
The first point that needs to be made is that statements (1) and (2) are not logically inconsistent as there is no apparent contradiction. For the atheist to jump to the conclusion that a good God that is omnipotent doesn’t exist is an unwarranted, unless he has assumed, in the words of Philosopher William Craig, “some hidden premises”[4]. These hidden premises seem to be the following,
4. If God is omnipotent, then he can create any world he wants
5. If God is good, then he prefers a world without evil
Statement (4) suggests that since God can create and do anything, then he can create free human beings who always decide to do the right thing and do not fall into evil or suffering. Statement (5) suggests that God is all good so much so that if he could create a world without evil and suffering he would. Otherwise he would himself be evil to prefer that humans experience evil and suffering.
The proponent of this version of the problem of evil has made some unjustified assumptions. These hidden premises make some daring assumptions; firstly it assumes a Christian type of God, one that is just good and omnipotent. Secondly it assumes that God doesn’t have any reasons to permit evil and suffering in the world.
Responding to the first assumption
Muslims do not only believe that God is just good and omnipotent. Muslims believe that part of God’s names and attributes include ‘the Just’, ‘the Severe in Punishment’, ‘the Wise’, ‘the Avenger’, and ‘the Compassionate’, amongst many others. So statements (1, 4 and 5) are inaccurate as the Muslim does not reduce God to parts, rather God is seen as one and unique in context of all his names and attributes. So if God was just good and omnipotent, then there may be problem in reconciling suffering and evil in the world. However if you include attributes such as ‘the Severe in Punishment’ and ‘the Wise’, these problems would not exist. Because perceived evil and suffering in the world can be due to,
• God’s punishment as a result of our sins and bad actions.
• God’s wisdom, as there may be divine wisdom in permitting evil and suffering. Even if we can’t evaluate what the wisdom is, it doesn’t mean it is not there. To argue such a thing would be a logical fallacy, known as the argument from ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam). The story of Khidr which can be found in the 18th chapter of Qur’an from verses 60 to 82 is an eloquent account of how God’s wisdom, whether understood or not, has positive results and benefits for humanity.
In addition to this the Muslim can argue that the problem of evil is logically posterior to the existence of God. You need to establish that God exists first before attempting to reconcile who God is with our perception of reality, in this case, evil and suffering.
Lastly the meaning of the word ‘good’ attributed to God needs to be understood in a divine context. In general terms the word ‘good’ has a meaning that relates to human experience, whereas in Islamic theology ‘good’ as an attribute of God is primarily viewed as a unique attribute that can be appreciated but not fully comprehended due to his uniqueness and transcendental nature. Therefore the underlying assumption that evil and a good God cannot coexist may be true with a Christian view of God. However it doesn’t apply to the Islamic concept of God as the atheist will have to reconcile evil and suffering with something that he cannot fully comprehend. So his premises are false due to his incorrect assumption that ‘good’ in the context of God is related to a human understanding of good.
Responding to the second assumption
A sufficient response to the second assumption is to provide a strong argument that God has justified reasons to permit suffering and evil in the world. The intellectual richness of Islamic Theology provides us with many reasons, some of which include:
1. The primary purpose of the human being is not happiness rather it is to know and worship God. This fulfillment of the divine purpose will result in everlasting bliss and happiness. So if this is our primary purpose other aspects of human experience our secondary. The Qur’an, the book of the Muslims states: "I did not create either jinn or man except to worship Me." [5]
2. God also created us for a test, and part of this test is to be tested with suffering and evil. The Qur’an mentions “The One Who created death and life, so that He may put you to test, to find out which of you is best in deeds: He is the all-Almighty, the all-Forgiving” [6]
3. Having hardship and suffering enables us to realise and know God’s attributes such as ‘the Victorious’ and ‘the Healer’. For example without the pain and suffering of illness we would not appreciate the attribute of God being ‘the Healer’. Knowing God is a greater good, and worth the experience of suffering or pain as it will mean the fulfillment of our primary purpose.
4. Suffering allows 2nd order good. 1st order good is physical pleasure and happiness and 1st order evil is physical pain and sadness. 2nd order goodness is elevated goodness such as courage and can only happen if suffering or evil exist. [7]
5. People can also suffer from past, present or future sins. God has knowledge of everything which is not contingent on time. Please refer to the story of Khidr in the Qur’an where it mentions Khidr’s reply to Prophet Moses “All this was done as a mercy from your Lord. What I did was not done by my own will. That is the interpretation of those actions which you could not bear to watch with patience.”[8]
6. God has given us free will, and free will includes choosing evil acts. [9]
The external problem of evil
The internal problem of evil fails to convince, however the external problem of evil seems more persuasive because it seems to acknowledge the co-existence of God and evil in the world, but denies God’s existence due to the level of the evil in the world. The external problem of evil argues the following:
1. A good God that is omnipotent exists
2. Gratuitous evil exists
3. Therefore, God does not exist
For the Muslim statement (2) is subjective and not entirely true. The Muslim will believe that evil exists, but not that gratuitous evil exists, and since this is based upon human subjectivity then the external problem of evil carries no weight. The proponent of this argument will have to show that gratuitous evil or evil itself are objective without reference to human subjectivity.
The essential problem with this argument is shown in the following questions:
• What makes our value judgments objectively true?
• What are our definitions of gratuitous evil?
The proponent of the problem of evil is faces a problem because God is required a rational basis for objective good and evil (whether gratuitous or not). Without God these terms are relative as there is no conceptual anchor, apart from God himself, which transcends human subjectivity. So the terms evil and good make no sense or are just ephemeral without God. Therefore in order for the atheist’s premise to make objective sense, God’s existence is necessary. In this light the Muslim or theist may argue:
1. If God did not exist, then objective moral values would not exist
2. Evil exists
3. Therefore objective moral values exists (from premise 2)
4. Therefore, God exists
Explaining the key premise: Premise (1)
The question about objective good or bad, in other words objective morality, has been discussed by many theists and non-theists alike. Many have concluded that there is no objective morality without God. Humanist philosopher Paul Kurtz aptly puts it,
“The central question about moral and ethical principles concerns this ontological foundation. If they are neither derived from God nor anchored in some transcendent ground, are they purely ephemeral?”[10]
Paul Kurtz is right because God is the only conceptual anchor that transcends human subjectivity, so without God there is no rational basis for objective morality. In God’s absence, there are only two possible alternative conceptual foundations.
• Social pressures
• Evolution
Both social pressures and evolution provide no objective basis for morality as they both claim that our morality is contingent on changes: biological and social. Therefore morality cannot be binding, in other words true regardless of who believes in them.
Therefore without God there is no objective basis for morality. God as a concept is not subjective therefore having God as basis for morality makes them binding and objective, because God transcends human subjectivity. The following statement by Richard Taylor, an eminent ethicist, correctly concludes,
“Contemporary writers in ethics, who blithely discourse upon moral right and wrong and moral obligation without any reference to religion, are really just weaving intellectual webs from thin air; which amounts to saying that they discourse without meaning.”[11]
Therefore evil in the world actually proves that God exists. This argument shows how God and evil can co-exist without attempting to explain why. So in a rhetorical response to the atheist the Muslim or theist can pose the following question,
“How can the atheist formulate an argument against the existence of God when God is required as an objective basis for the formulation of the argument in the first place?!”
At first sight the problem of evil seems to present insuperable difficulties for the Muslim. However under intellectual scrutiny the problem of evil actually fails to present a convincing argument.
Concluding with the Emotional Argument
There is a well known Buddhist saying that states ‘desire causes suffering ‘and since human beings desire then we will always suffer. Whether this is true or not clearly reinforces our intuition that we will suffer and experience evil at some point in our lives. This suffering can be the making of our own hands, other peoples or external forces like natural disasters. A consequence of this suffering is that many of us may fall prey to our emotional dispositions thereby questioning God’s existence or entering into a state of some form psychological malady.
Islamic Theology however provides the conceptual ‘tools’ necessary for the Muslim to overcome this problem. Islamic Theology is derived from two main sources, the Qur’an and the hadith literature. The Qur’an is a divine book that Muslims believes to be the word of God, and the hadith are divinely inspired statements attributed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). The following verses from the Qur’an and sayings from hadith provide all the necessary comfort for the Muslim.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
"Amazing is the affair of the believer, verily all of his affair is good and this is not for no one except the believer. If something of good/happiness befalls him he is grateful and that is good for him. If something of harm befalls him he is patient and that is good for him." [12]
“Anyone who dies of the plague is a martyr. Anyone who dies of a stomach illness is a martyr. Anyone who drowns is a martyr.” [13]
"There are seven classes of martyrs except the one who is killed while fighting in the cause of God: one who dies in plague is a martyr; one who dies due to drowning is a martyr; one who is killed of Zat al-Janb disease (a disease that attacks ribs and causes inner ulcerations) is a martyr; one who dies of diseases of stomach is a martyr; one who is killed by fire is a martyr; one who is crushed under a wall is a martyr; and a woman who dies while delivery (or pregnancy) is a martyr." [14]
"No calamity befalls a Muslim but that Allah expiates some of his sins because of it, even though it were the prick he receives from a thorn." [15]
The Qur’an says,
“Do you think that you will enter paradise without any trials while you have known the examples of those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with suffering and adversity and were so violently shaken up that even the Prophet and the believers with him cried out: ‘When will God’s help come?’ Be aware, God’s help is close.” [16]
“Surely with every difficulty there is relief. Surely with every difficulty there is relief.” [17]
“Let there rise from among you a band of people who should invite to righteousness, enjoin good and forbid evil: such are the one, who shall be successful.” [18]
Since the Muslim is intellectually convinced that these statements are from God, then it follows they are truth claims that not only comfort the Muslim, but fills his heart with tranquility.
References
[1] Avin Plantinga. God, Freedom and Evil. William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 1977, p 7.
[2] David Hume. Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion, part 10.
[3] “God and Evil” Philosophical Quarterly, X (1960), p 97.
[4] J.P. Moreland and William Lane Craig. Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview. IVP Academic, p 538.
[5] Qur’an 51:56-57
[6] Qur’an 67: 2
[7] Although this is contended by some philosophers such as John Mackie, philosopher Avin Plantinga provides an interesting response in his book God, Freedom and Evil.
[8] Qur’an 18:82
[9] This requires an in-depth discussion which will be discussed in another article
[10] Paul Kurtz. Forbidden Fruit. Prometheus. 1988, p 65.
[11] Richard Taylor. Ethics, Faith, and Reason. Prentice Hall. 1985, p. 83–84.
[12] Saheeh Muslim
[13] Ibid.
[14] Narrated Abu Dawood and Ibn Majah
[15] Saheeh Bukhari
[16] Qur’an 2:214
[17] Qur’an 94:5-6
[18] Qur’an 3:104
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