Who created God(Allah) ?

[AncientGlory]

Forget the book, are you saying there is no power that governs us?

An invincible person up in the sky ordering us to do as he demands? Yes I'm quite positive there is no such person.

We all are creatures with magnificent technology.

No doubt about that. But can't it be that complexity was always there and it came out from nothing?

Just think how our senses work.. If you are to say that there is no superpower behind our existence, that's more darkness than a blind.

That is your opinion. How you look at things. I'd say that if you believe there is an invincible guy in the sky who created us from dust, I can say that's more darkness than blind.

Anyway hope the answer for your question is in this 9 mins video.

How do we know if there is a God?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MWPLCUhxuk

Thank you for the link. But that was a total waste of 9 minutes of my life.

Tc

You too.

 

[AncientGlory]

Obeying with the free will

This is one of the best sentences I've ever seen. Obeying with free will...

 

[dilankandy]

Obeying with free will...

In other words "u having anal sex with your self.."

 

[Kasem]

This is one of the best sentences I've ever seen. Obeying with free will...

 

[GMBC]

Obeying with free will..

In other words "u having anal sex with your self.."

​

 

[IcedEarth]

This is one of the best sentences I've ever seen. Obeying with free will...

 

[ColdBreath]

Thanks again for your kind explanation. This is in fact interesting. But some of these points are still appear to defy my grasp of logic.

No. It is mentioned that God Almighty knows everything of what humans and jinns do, in this world and hereafter. He is All Knowing.

"He knoweth What (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass Aught of his knowledge Except as He willeth."
(Baqarah 2: 255 also known as Ayathul Kursi)

Still God Almighty send man into his world for the test, so they wouldn't complain of their status, if originally they are placed according to their deeds.

Meaning God Almighty knows the final result of what man will earn. Yet he made this world, giving the opportunity to go through the tests, so people will not complain of their result.

We are given a supreme opportunity to obey God Almighty with the free will, which is higher than Angels. To reach such, we need to go through the test and prove it.

Pardon me, but if god made man and God knows everything, why go through with the trouble of testing. If you take for an example human body has many organs which utilize energy and minerals in the most efficient way. If god made us to be so efficient and he is concise about efficiency, why would he choose this inefficient test for us?

God Almighty forced only the Good for humans and jinn.

God Almighty has only made the options as a mean of testing, in this world. There is no place for evil out of the purpose of testing. He never forces any evil choice to man. He advices the option which will get us to success, and that's only the choice of 'good'.

It is only people who make the wrong choices instead of the recommended correct one.

If we can't choose the bad ones (which were made by god) then there can't be a free will neda?

Then you are wasting a such an opportunity of achieving the most possible highest status as a human with the use of free will, that other creatures didn't get.

What about the free will? Don't I get to choose?

 

[Pizziesta]

This is one of the best sentences I've ever seen. Obeying with free will...

Free will means the ability to obey or disobey.

 

[Pizziesta]

Pardon me, but if god made man and God knows everything, why go through with the trouble of testing.?

Let's think you can create robots who just obey for yourself without any problem. And then you think to create another kind of robot creature with free will, who can either obey you or disobey you, and you wanna reward them for their actions.

If you give them what they deserve soon after their creation, they would be clueless and those who haven't got best rewards will complain, wouldn't they?

So for that and many reasons, you have to give them a chance to go through the tests. (where they will either obey you or disobey you)

Then when they get rewarded, they know why they were rewarded and those who didn't too.

Hope you understood the point. It's all for the sake of us. God Almighty gets nothing from us. It is for us these opportunities given.

If we can't choose the bad ones (which were made by god) then there can't be a free will neda?

Free will means the ability to choose either to obey HIM or disobey HIM.

Both are possible for you to do. It's your choice. God Almighty already knows what you will choose. But he never force you to do any. Only thing he will do is to guide you, giving you more opportunities to choose the best option and get to high ranks.

What about the free will? Don't I get to choose?

Of course you can! But then you are wasting such an opportunity.

 

[ColdBreath]

Thanks to Pizziesta, for being patient and taking time to explain to me. I think I understood some core concepts of Islam.

 

[GMBC]

katavath -rep dunnai kiyala umbalage god charter vena aka navathinne ne ban..

umbala napunsakayo neveyi nan nama dalama denna thibunane..

 

[AncientGlory]

Free will means the ability to obey or disobey.

That is an interesting definition. The first time I heard it. Anyway the whole concept is contradicting.

GOD when creating me knew exactly how I'm gonna turn out(Non believer). In fact it is he who created me this way. He perfectly knew I'm gonna die a non believer one day. It is his will. Where in my life did I get the chance to exercise my free will??

 

[Pizziesta]

That is an interesting definition. The first time I heard it. Anyway the whole concept is contradicting.

You heard it first time cos all you heard were nothing but misconceptions. Anyway let's analyze whether it is contradictory or not.

GOD when creating me knew exactly how I'm gonna turn out(Non believer).In fact it is he who created me this way. He perfectly knew I'm gonna die a non believer one day. It is his will. Where in my life did I get the chance to exercise my free will??

This is a very common argument.

HE created giving everyone equal chances. You are given the chance to either obey him or disobey.

As HE is ALL KNOWING, HE knows what you will do (you may change your stand one day). It doesn't mean you are not given a choice.

You still have the choice with you and nothing is forced upon you to choose any option but only what you want. In fact, you will be given more chances to revert to the correct path.

HE knows what you will eventually choose before your death. But that doesn't have any influences with any of your options. Hope you got the point.

“Say: ‘Truth is from your Lord’. Now whosoever will, may believe, and whosoever will, may disbelieve.” (Al-Kahf: 29).

“If it had been your Lord’s will, all who are in the earth would have believed. Will you, then, force the people to become believers?” (Yunus: 99).

If God Almighty needed HE could have made everyone a believer without giving them options. Humans are accountable only to those that they had options. Now you have the option.

No way it is forced from God Almighty to choose any. Is he forcing you not to believe?

 

[Pizziesta]

An invincible person up in the sky ordering us to do as he demands? Yes I'm quite positive there is no such person.

It's a power. Not a being like you and I.

As i said, if one look around, he would understand that there is a Power governing every movement of this universe (sun rotation, colours in the environment that can be only grasped through our brain, amazing technology used to create our human bodies, emotions flowing into our brains and us feeling them, to feel different tastes we have a tongue connected to brain etc etc etc). So you think all these and many others happened by random chance? By the way, what is your point of view on spirits (any regard)? Are you an atheist that believes there is no supernatural power at all?

No doubt about that. But can't it be that complexity was always there and it came out from nothing?[/FONT]

- You guys don't believe that God can create things from nothing but this!

- Basic science theory. You need a force for an action. In other words, there is no action without a force.

God is the source of every force - power, thus deserving our obedience.

- There are too many intelligent facts connected together to create what we have today which is impossible to happen by chance.

Eg; How we hear.

It needs a medium that understands vibration. Things need to create a vibration. And that vibration needs to create a wave in order to create a similiar pattern in our ear drums. That pattern in ear drum transforms into our miracalous brain, which gives us its understanding.

In other words we have an unbelievable RAM that makes everything happen so fast So it' will be like you find a PC and thinks it all happen by chance. From its physical structure to its software.

"We will show them Our Signs on the horizon and within themselves until it is clear to them that it is the truth", (Surah Fussilat, 53),


Hope you got what i meant.

Thank you for the link. But that was a total waste of 9 minutes of my life.

Cos you have answers for all those logics? I put it up cos there it doesn't speak of scriptures but normal logic.

And you do?

[/FONT]

I think i have a fair knowledge of it.

Have u heard about freemasonry? or Illuminati? They control us from the little cartoon we watch to the cig we smoke. 99% of cigs brands (Bensen & Hedges, Marlbouro, etc), 90% of alcohol (black label, etc), Porn that are being released 90% (Playboy, etc) Drinks - Coca Coal, Pepsi etc, and every other thing that brings negativity to the society are owned by them.

Do your research and you will get it. They are the ones who sends NGOs to countries.

I can say millions of things but you can do your own research that should make you believe. If you are interested, i can provide you with some links.

Who they worship is Satan and his following jinns directly. They have their own satanic rituals and even satanic churches. Most other time they try to hide away from the society while presenting with a well known good image.

Eg; Rothechild family (The main satanic family who is the most richest man on earth - Bil gates story is just to deviate ppl)

Michael Angelo (The Painter)

FYI- - other jinns who come to people as (fake) gods. This is the same senario, let it be in the times of greeks, pharaohs, or today hindu and other cultural fake gods.

 

[Pizziesta]

Thanks to Pizziesta, for being patient and taking time to explain to me. I think I understood some core concepts of Islam.

My Pleasure. It's everyone's duty to pass on the Message to others. Unfortunately today most people are following just because others follow, without knowing anything. What i explained is not 100% but only to give you a basic idea.

Anyway, if you have any other questions related (like the concept of rich and poor people, to spirits pretending to be dead people incidences, etc) feel free to post here.

Have a nice, blessed time.

 

[AncientGlory]

You heard it first time cos all you heard were nothing but misconceptions. Anyway let's analyze whether it is contradictory or not.

No, It is because the general definition of free will in a religious sense is that a deity will not use its power over individual will and choice. Your definitions deviates from the general definition. It does not make the general one a misconception nor it makes yours right or wrong.

This is a very common argument.

HE created giving everyone equal chances. You are given the chance to either obey him or disobey.

As HE is ALL KNOWING, HE knows what you will do (you may change your stand one day). It doesn't mean you are not given a choice.

It's a reveal to know that everything that happens is not GOD's will. Apparently whatever happens is our will.

Anyway this is confusing. Did he or did he not create me the way I am?

 

[AncientGlory]

It's a power. Not a being like you and I.

Yeah, I call that power "the Universe."

So you think all these and many others happened by random chance?

Yes, it can happen by a random chance.

By the way, what is your point of view on spirits (any regard)?

Give your definition of spirit. Then I will give my point of view.

Are you an atheist that believes there is no supernatural power at all?

Did I tell you I'm an atheist? I'm a seeker. My beliefs change over time. These days I'm really fascinated by Pastafarianism.

- You guys don't believe that God can create things from nothing but this!

- Basic science theory. You need a force for an action. In other words, there is no action without a force.

God is the source of every force - power, thus deserving our obedience.

Ok now here's my point of bringing up "out from nothing" argument.

You guys say that nothing can come out from nothing, but now this? So where did GOD come from?

Basic science theory, you need cause for an effect. What effected in GOD? What is the cause?

There are too many intelligent facts connected together to create what we have today which is impossible to happen by chance.

You clearly need to do your homework. It is possible to happen by chance.

Cos you have answers for all those logics? I put it up cos there it doesn't speak of scriptures but normal logic.

Maybe I did not understand it. Can you point out one logical reasoning in the video and explain?

I think i have a fair knowledge of it.

Have u heard about freemasonry? or Illuminati? They control us from the little cartoon we watch to the cig we smoke. 99% of cigs brands (Bensen & Hedges, Marlbouro, etc), 90% of alcohol (black label, etc), Porn that are being released 90% (Playboy, etc) Drinks - Coca Coal, Pepsi etc, and every other thing that brings negativity to the society are owned by them.

So here's the thing. You found something in the internet(I also have the access to same sources. I have done the research on my part) and listen to a rant by some one and decide that these so called people who worship the devil are like this and that. You obviously have a biased opinion. But if you think you have a fair knowledge of these people than me, because of that, you are wrong. I have personally discussed and analyzed the believes of these so called satanists. You have no idea what you are talking about. You go by a well written story you found in the internet, to support your belief in devil and your need to blame someone. So I'm just gonna say lets drop this. There will be black sheep in every herd. (Ex: Muslims flying a plane to WTC, but they do not represent Islam). This will be the same case in the group who consider Satan to be their GOD.

BTW since you bring the name Illuminati, over and over I think I should mention this. The first time I heard of it and did research, If I remember correctly was about 8 years ago. This was when I was reading the book "Angels and demons" by Dan Brown.

 

[Pizziesta]

No, It is because the general definition of free will in a religious sense is that a deity will not use its power over individual will and choice. Your definitions deviates from the general definition. It does not make the general one a misconception nor it makes yours right or wrong.

Misconceptions happens when you don't understand what it really means.

We're going through our life plan (destiny) which differentiates only through the choices we take when options are given to us.

Eg; A person will be made rich and will be given him choices. If he choose the correct ones, he may have it for a long time (or whatever), where as a negative choice would put his wealth drought (or whatever).

So the destiny is to be rich. The options are within us.

It's a reveal to know that everything that happens is not GOD's will. Apparently whatever happens is our will.

Hoping you understood the first reply*

Everything happen to The God's will. Nothing goes off His plans.

What we are given to deal with are only choices within that plan. Our choices are according to our will. (Free will.)

So we can only to choose between options, created for us. According to the choices we make, we will be lead to a different level.

Anyway this is confusing. Did he or did he not create me the way I am?

It won't be confusing once you know its concepts. The way you are is as a result of the choices you have made. He didn't create you as a disbeliever. Everyone are innocent until the age of puberty or late until he get the knowledge between right and wrong, making it a test to answer with the free will.

 

[Pizziesta]

Sorry about the late reply.

Yes, it can happen by a random chance.

For some little evidence is enough, and some will keep on doubting.

Just a basic thought only.

Can a computer get assembled, run a software and have its own power which keeps it on, happen by a random chance? So for many people, the world we observe (humans, animals, jinns, the dimensions we have within the world, the mediums we have connecting each other, etc) which are more complex than a computer, find really hard to happen by a random chance.

[SIZE=Give your definition of spirit. Then I will give my point of view.[/SIZE]

Do you believe of any kinda spirits? let it be spirits pretending to be dead people to the spirits being worshiped.

Did I tell you I'm an atheist? I'm a seeker. My beliefs change over time. These days I'm really fascinated by Pastafarianism.

I just wanted to know your point so i can explain things for a better understanding.

Ok now here's my point of bringing up "out from nothing" argument.

You guys say that nothing can come out from nothing, but now this? So where did GOD come from?

Basic science theory, you need cause for an effect. What effected in GOD? What is the cause?

The God, is the cause of all other effects. From him everything else came to exist.

If God has another source then that entity is not deserving our obedience.

Anyway according to you, what caused the bing bang? Cos there has to be a cause that effected into the big bang.

BTW since you bring the name Illuminati, over and over I think I should mention this. The first time I heard of it and did research, If I remember correctly was about 8 years ago. This was when I was reading the book "Angels and demons" by Dan Brown.

This is what happens when you think what you know is always the truth.

Angels and demons is a lame, a very lame book/film that puts a mask to the real illuminati. Don't you expect the real illuminati to hide their identity? when they get exposed, they try to deviate people by giving them different identities.

Illuminati is the name given the 33 freemasonry families and their sub families.
Angels and Demons is nothing but an effort to cover up their true identity. When this happens, people will starting to doubt about them and find it as a joke like you have.

 

[Yamato Daiwa]

human race was the one who came up with gods and religions so gods creator = humans
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