Questions for Thiests

[AncientGlory]

How do you know GOD is there?

I have been given three explanation for this so far.

(1) It is a feeling you get. You feel GOD.

(2) You just know it. (Yeah that's it, no explanation or whatever)

(3) The universe it self is a proof of GODs existence.

All the above 3 does not make any sense to me. Do you have anything that make more sense?

 

[LiliWang]

This is because it is evident that there is evil in the world, if there was only evil then we are all headed for destruction. Therefore, there must be something good, something far greater than our own comprehension that can save us all from that path of destruction. I say that God is good because, most well civilized individuals would not want to glorify something that can further add to destruction. Most people want peace of mind, and most want to be delivered from the evil of the world. (I say most, because there are those that worship the devil himself.)

God is there because all human beings have a desire to worship something. Even the people who do not believe in a god are most likely self-centred of their own sort, this is self worship. This creates a 'god' of self. If there was no god, then there would be no need for such a desire. Therefore, in the absence of a god, so too would there be an absence of this desire.

As for me I worship Jesus Christ. I believe He is God. I have chosen Him because He is the only one that can testify to sufferings. All the others that claim to be god, how can we even gain a relationship with them if we have a feeling at the back of our minds that they don’t even know what we are going through? With that, I say, not to offend anyone, but all others are either merely human beings (no divinity) or mere fables (non- existent). Jesus’ main point is to love all. No matter race, creed or gender. Is there any a greater commandment to follow? Love is the greatest and my Lord, is love.

May you, AncientGlory, have many happy returns.

Take care.

 

[AncientGlory]

This is because it is evident that there is evil in the world,

Are you saying you know GOD is there because there is evil in the world??

if there was only evil then we are all headed for destruction. Therefore, there must be something good, something far greater than our own comprehension that can save us all from that path of destruction.

Why? I'm perfectly capable of thinking for myself and deciding what is good and what is evil. Why should there be some unknown being to guide me?

I say that God is good because, most well civilized individuals would not want to glorify something that can further add to destruction. Most people want peace of mind, and most want to be delivered from the evil of the world. (I say most, because there are those that worship the devil himself.)

I say GOD is bad because he being omnimax, should not have created evil in the first place. He should not have designed a place where people suffer.

And why did he create devil and more importantly if he is so bad, why he is not getting rid of him?

God is there because all human beings have a desire to worship something.

Exactly. Humans wanted to worship something. Seems like they created GOD.

Even the people who do not believe in a god are most likely self-centred of their own sort, this is self worship. This creates a 'god' of self. If there was no god, then there would be no need for such a desire. Therefore, in the absence of a god, so too would there be an absence of this desire.

This argument does not make sense. Most people are self centered. it has nothing to do with religion. Then saying having a self centered nature is a result of GOD's presence is just well highly illogical.

May you, AncientGlory, have many happy returns.

Take care.

You too.

More I learn about GOD, more it does not make sense. If people cannot give a logical answer to the simplest thing, How do you know GOD is there, to a non believer, it really begs the question, Is GOD really there???

 

[DamienJ]

Are you saying you know GOD is there because there is evil in the world??


Why? I'm perfectly capable of thinking for myself and deciding what is good and what is evil. Why should there be some unknown being to guide me?


I say GOD is bad because he being omnimax, should not have created evil in the first place. He should not have designed a place where people suffer.

And why did he create devil and more importantly if he is so bad, why he is not getting rid of him?


Exactly. Humans wanted to worship something. Seems like they created GOD.


This argument does not make sense. Most people are self centered. it has nothing to do with religion. Then saying having a self centered nature is a result of GOD's presence is just well highly illogical.




You too.

More I learn about GOD, more it does not make sense. If people cannot give a logical answer to the simplest thing, How do you know GOD is there, to a non believer, it really begs the question, Is GOD really there???

as long as ur blind you will not see the light...this what is happening to you...

 

[brave]

as long as ur blind you will not see the light...this what is happening to you...

so true man..!! good rep!
and ancient glory....one day when your helpless in any and no any other way to survive should seek the help of god.then u will remind of this day.

 

[dilankandy]

so true man..!! good rep!
and ancient glory....one day when your helpless in any and no any other way to survive should seek the help of god.then u will remind of this day.

This explains everything. These are the very reasons why MAN created GOD.
You (Theists) wanted a big brother to protect you when you were in trouble.
You needed to feel safe when you are in trouble
Most of all, you knew that you are so weak and almost no backbone.
But you hesitated to accept that you are weak and powerless.
So
You invented an Imaginary God.
You made him almighty.
you gave him an unimaginable characteristics.
you gave him power to control you.
Now you are a slave of your own thoughts....

 

[I love Srilanka]

This explains everything. These are the very reasons why MAN created GOD.
You (Theists) wanted a big brother to protect you when you were in trouble.
You needed to feel safe when you are in trouble
Most of all, you knew that you are so weak and almost no backbone.
But you hesitated to accept that you are weak and powerless.
So
You invented an Imaginary God.
You made him almighty.
you gave him an unimaginable characteristics.
you gave him power to control you.
Now you are a slave of your own thoughts....



I don't want to go in to much details , coz I know You all dont understand even if we explain well on any subject But one Question to you, the keyboard ,PC which u are using currently, how came in to exist???? answer me...!!

 

[dilankandy]

This explains everything. These are the very reasons why MAN created GOD.
You (Theists) wanted a big brother to protect you when you were in trouble.
You needed to feel safe when you are in trouble
Most of all, you knew that you are so weak and almost no backbone.
But you hesitated to accept that you are weak and powerless.
So
You invented an Imaginary God.
You made him almighty.
you gave him an unimaginable characteristics.
you gave him power to control you.
Now you are a slave of your own thoughts....



I don't want to go in to much details , coz I know You all dont understand even if we explain well on any subject But one Question to you, the keyboard ,PC which u are using currently, how came in to exist???? answer me...!!

Are you trying to say there should be a creater for everything and therefor god exists..??

 

[LiliWang]

Are you saying you know GOD is there because there is evil in the world??

I could tell you also because of the very nature/biology inside our body suggests that there is a god. However, you said that you have already heard the science behind things and it doesn't make sense.

I could tell you that by the feelings I obtain points me to a god, but you've heard this already and it so too does not make sense to you.

I could also say by faith I understand that there is a god, but this concept might be even harder for you to grasp.

So AG, yes, I am also saying because there is evil in this world, so too must there be another essence that opposes it. A being that we can call on for deliverance. Even in the law of science states that for every action there's an opposite reaction.


Why? I'm perfectly capable of thinking for myself and deciding what is good and what is evil. Why should there be some unknown being to guide me?

My stone age ancestors are Caribs, they ate human beings. They were governed by no Bible or any moral books. They thought it was normal to eat anything they so desired. Do you think it's right to eat human beings? Granted that you grew up alone in a jungle without laws and regulations, what makes you think you'd know exactly what is right and what is wrong? The laws don't steal, don't kill are laws directly taken from the Bible. An ancient book, which even archeologists whom do not believe in god do not oppose its validity.

I say GOD is bad because he being omnimax, should not have created evil in the first place. He should not have designed a place where people suffer.
God did not create evil, He created free will. We took our own free will and choose to do ill with it.

And why did he create devil and more importantly if he is so bad, why he is not getting rid of him? The devil created himself by taking his free will to do wicked things. Well, you know already I do believe in God. I believe He created me, so thus since I am the creation, I cannot always discern what the creator is up to. However, I would imagine that He has not gotten 'rid' of the devil because of the free we have in us. I would think that He wants us to use our free will to have faith in Him and His work and love others as we love our selves. The others that choose otherwise will just stick with the devil.


Exactly. Humans wanted to worship something. Seems like they created GOD.
That still leaves the question, who created human beings? If it is your faith that we were all fishes and then turned into human beings, then who created the fishes? If it is your belief that we just magically appeared onto the face of this earth, then I'd say that you and all others that do not believe in divinity have more faith than the ones who do. To believe that something erupted from nothing is beyond me.


This argument does not make sense. Most people are self centered. it has nothing to do with religion.

Yes, it has nothing to do with religion. However, it is a result of a lacking relationship. As I've said before. I believe Jesus Christ is love. People are self-centred because they don't understand love to begin with. Most do not believe in Jesus Christ because they can't comprehend how an innocent being would die for another, die for the world.

Then saying having a self centered nature is a result of GOD's presence is just well highly illogical.


This is not what I am saying. I'm saying folks are self-centred because they think the world revolves around them, they think they are the god of their own lives. That they control everything. However, we all fall so often, how can one continue to think their in control if they don't even succeed in their pursuits.


You too.

More I learn about GOD, more it does not make sense. If people cannot give a logical answer to the simplest thing, How do you know GOD is there, to a non believer, it really begs the question, Is GOD really there???


You'll never find God in the box that you want Him to be in. Think about it, if there is a god, (I strongly believe there is), but let's just take it from your perspective, if there is a god, a king of the universe, the maker of all sorts of complicated biological elements inside the bodies of organisms, why do you think that he should be so simple in understanding, simple in finding?
How do you know your parents love you AG?


Keep searching AG. There is a video in this forum: http://www.elakiri.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155845&highlight=creator

It's called the Case for a Creator. It was written from the perspective of a serious non god believing science researcher... I'll look for it and post it back here.

 

[I love Srilanka]

Are you trying to say there should be a creater for everything and therefor god exists..??

Otherwise are you saying motherboard,processor, RAM and ROM flew from different part of the world and came in to existence by itself as a PC in your home.

 

[LiliWang]

This explains everything. These are the very reasons why MAN created GOD.
You (Theists) wanted a big brother to protect you when you were in trouble.
You needed to feel safe when you are in trouble
Most of all, you knew that you are so weak and almost no backbone.
But you hesitated to accept that you are weak and powerless.
So
You invented an Imaginary God.
You made him almighty.
you gave him an unimaginable characteristics.
you gave him power to control you.
Now you are a slave of your own thoughts....

I say this with the most respect... when you die and we all will die someday, you've got nothing to worry about.

Have a good one dilankandy.

 

[dilankandy]

Otherwise are you saying motherboard,processor, RAM and ROM flew from different part of the world and came in to existence by itself as a PC in your home.

See, you see things how things in outer world come to an exist, So you come to a conclusion that everything should have a creator. But that theory is not valid for your god hah... Then who created God? You will say he is almighty and he always existed. But how can god exist always and he has no creator but this world has a creator. Why cant it be that world existed always and it continues it self in a cyclic way. You cant find a beginning in a cyclic reaction....
look at the topic dude....

 

[truthwatch]

See, you see things how things in outer world come to an exist, So you come to a conclusion that everything should have a creator. But that theory is not valid for your god hah... Then who created God? You will say he is almighty and he always existed. But how can god exist always and he has no creator but this world has a creator. Why cant it be that world existed always and it continues it self in a cyclic way. You cant find a beginning in a cyclic reaction....
look at the topic dude....

hats off!!!

 

[truthwatch]

I say this with the most respect... when you die and we all will die someday, you've got nothing to worry about.

Have a good one dilankandy.

you know sister,according to the quran(the only true book) it says that all the non-muslims will go to hell.....so it includes the catholics also......so when you die you will end up in hell also..(if you are a catholic).....

 

[LiliWang]

you know sister,according to the quran(the only true book) it says that all the non-muslims will go to hell.....so it includes the catholics also......so when you die you will end up in hell also..(if you are a catholic).....

I am not Catholic, but who was talking about hell? I was only reassuring someone that does not believe in God that he has nothing to fear when he dies, since he doesn't believe in God.

You too truthwatch have a good day.

 

[AncientGlory]

This explains everything. These are the very reasons why MAN created GOD.
You (Theists) wanted a big brother to protect you when you were in trouble.
You needed to feel safe when you are in trouble
Most of all, you knew that you are so weak and almost no backbone.
But you hesitated to accept that you are weak and powerless.
So
You invented an Imaginary God.
You made him almighty.
you gave him an unimaginable characteristics.
you gave him power to control you.
Now you are a slave of your own thoughts....

True. Actually I did some research on history of religion. It seems to me that the the concept of GOD came from death.

Man always wanted to understand things. One thing he couldn't understand was death. He can't see beyond that, so he feared death. He couldn't just bear the idea that maybe everything will be over from death. The idea that maybe you only get one chance was too fearful. Therefor he wanted to cling in to something beyond, something to go forever. That's where GOD came in to existence.

Hinduism being one of the oldest religions(Actually I think the oldest religion today), was something I gave my interest. It seems that first GOD that came through Hinduism is Shakthi, a word that gives the meaning, "Energy". It suggests that early creators of GOD just named the energy as GOD. This makes perfect sense since energy is all there is in the Universe. Even today if you ask some hindu's they'd say, the GOD is whole and this whole is the energy. Some say that it really does not matter that whether GOD has consciousness or physical form.

GOD seems very much like a creation of man, that is why it is interesting to understand and search for evidence of GOD. So again the question, HOW do you KNOW?

 

[AncientGlory]

so true man..!! good rep!
and ancient glory....one day when your helpless in any and no any other way to survive should seek the help of god.then u will remind of this day.

If such a day comes, I know there's no way to survive. Are you seriously saying that if GOD is there he'd care? Look around, all the suffering in the world, you really think he cares??

 

[AncientGlory]

Are you trying to say there should be a creater for everything and therefor god exists..??

I think maybe he is going with the "Blind Watchmaker analogy".

 

[AncientGlory]

So AG, yes, I am also saying because there is evil in this world, so too must there be another essence that opposes it. A being that we can call on for deliverance.

The opposite of evil is good. I still don't see where the GOD comes to play a part in that. You assume GOD created good and free will. That is perfectly alright. But my question is why you say that? If assumptions are all you have, it is not gonna help me, you understand that right LiliWang? We cannot go forward with an assumption "GOD created world". If I'm willing to accept that assumption I don't need to ask questions from you. But there's something we can do, we can come to the conclusion, that the way you know GOD is there, fall in to the above three categories I mentioned in the first post.

My stone age ancestors are Caribs, they ate human beings. They were governed by no Bible or any moral books. They thought it was normal to eat anything they so desired. Do you think it's right to eat human beings? Granted that you grew up alone in a jungle without laws and regulations, what makes you think you'd know exactly what is right and what is wrong? The laws don't steal, don't kill are laws directly taken from the Bible. An ancient book, which even archeologists whom do not believe in god do not oppose its validity.

Ok let me get this straight, First you say that eating human beings is wrong. Then you say what makes me think that I exactly know what is right and wrong? So let me ask the question, what makes you think you know exactly what is right and wrong? You reply suggests that humans do not have a sense on what is right and what is wrong. So yeah, I say Caribs eating humans are maybe right. I mean you don't know right from wrong. Only GOD knows it.

You see the above reply to me clearly suggests that you know the boundaries of right and wrong. You feel that eating human flesh is wrong. The sense of morality is built in to you. But yet you refuse to believe that you are moral enough to make the decision between what is right and wrong, you give that responsibility to a GOD, whom you have never seen, whom you know exists only by assuming he exists. But I do not do that, I say I'm capable of understanding what is good and bad. Something that does not hurt others intentionally is good.

Saying that laws like do not eat, do not kill are taken directly from the bible is just lack of your knowledge(Please do not take any offense), Look in to hinduism and you will see those laws were established in the hindu society more than 6000 years ago. The laws were developed independently among human societies because humans do have a sense in what is wrong and right.

Bilble is an old book, but "vedas" were written 1500 years before bible. Check it out.

God did not create evil, He created free will. We took our own free will and choose to do ill with it.

I don't get it. Are you saying that my life is not predetermined by GOD? He doesn't know what I'm gonna end up with, where I'm gonna end up?

I would think that He wants us to use our free will to have faith in Him and His work and love others as we love our selves. The others that choose otherwise will just stick with the devil.

So the GOD who is omnibenevolence would rather let millions of people suffer for an eternity in hell, than getting rid of one person(devil)? He'd rather watch people exercise free will and suffer? Does that sound like a good person to you? I say GOD is bad.

To believe that something erupted from nothing is beyond me.

Wow really??? I thought that you believed GOD erupted from nothing. Or are you saying that GOD has a creator???

Yes, it has nothing to do with religion. However, it is a result of a lacking relationship. As I've said before. I believe Jesus Christ is love. People are self-centred because they don't understand love to begin with.

True to some extent. But I'd say people are self centered because it is their nature. There is a rule in the nature that says, ensure your survival, nothing goes beyond that. To do that people must be self centered, its on their genes..

Most do not believe in Jesus Christ because they can't comprehend how an innocent being would die for another, die for the world.

I believe that Jesus Christ existed. There are so many evidence to say that he did. I can comprehend how an innocent being would die for another, My country had a war for 26 years and so many innocent people(soldiers) sacrificed themselves for us. But just because that happened I did not jump in to the conclusion that GOD is there. I believe jesus is just a man.

This is not what I am saying. I'm saying folks are self-centred because they think the world revolves around them, they think they are the god of their own lives. That they control everything.

I cannot agree. People are self centered because that is their nature. Nothing more.

However, we all fall so often, how can one continue to think their in control if they don't even succeed in their pursuits.

Well how can one continue to think that when he fails again and again and again, that there is a person who wants nothing but good for you is looking over you??

You'll never find God in the box that you want Him to be in.

True. But if GOD is everywhere, I should find him where I look for him right? Your method is based on faith, your whole belief system is faith. I just cant base something in faith. Faith is a word you use when you can't explain something with reasonable logic. My quest is more like, understanding why people believe in GOD, and thereby try to see whether there is any sense to it, Is there a possibility for GODs existence? Right now I think the probability is closer to zero(My opinion).

Think about it, if there is a god, (I strongly believe there is), but let's just take it from your perspective, if there is a god, a king of the universe, the maker of all sorts of complicated biological elements inside the bodies of organisms, why do you think that he should be so simple in understanding, simple in finding?

The fact that someone created something complex has no relevance to "whether he would be simple in understanding or not". But I agree, that it is not simple.

How do you know your parents love you AG?

Because they do not threaten to lock me in the basement for an eternity, just because I refuse to believe in them and love them back.

Keep searching AG. There is a video in this forum: http://www.elakiri.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155845&highlight=creator

It's called the Case for a Creator. It was written from the perspective of a serious non god believing science researcher... I'll look for it and post it back here.

Thanks I will look at it.

 

[AncientGlory]

you know sister,according to the quran(the only true book) it says that all the non-muslims will go to hell.....so it includes the catholics also......so when you die you will end up in hell also..(if you are a catholic).....

Actually truthwatch Liliwang was not saying "you don't believe so you go to hell." What she was trying to say is that for an atheist, there's no reason to worry about what will happen after death. Coz you do not believe in beyond or GOD.

Well, not entirely true Liliwang, because believing in afterlife and GOD do not belong to the same set. For an example, buddhist believe in some sort of a afterlife, spiritual plane, but they reject the idea of an omnimax GOD.