Sadhguru බෞද්ධාගම විකුර්ති කරලා කියනවා

Emios

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    I know, buddhism is not what we think from the surface. But, when you go deeper and deeper you understand things little by little.

    These faculties are not something new. They are in our 52 mental factors, but not developed since we havent trained them. For example, our feeling mental factor is already developed thats why we can feel (not the superficial feeling, but the mind one). Perception is also the same.

    When someone does the meditation at the beginning his mind goes here and there. He doesnt even realize it. But when he continues on meditation at some point (this gradual) he feels as soon as his mind goes away, becuase he has developed a special mental factor to capture it. It cant be captured by anything else. There are some some similar factors will be developed in the 8 fold parth and the final fill be the wisdom.

    One can do enlightment fast or slow solely depends on the development of these special factors.

    The way mind works is amazing and fascinating. No, other religion (from what I studied) or science could ever go into this depth.
    So it can be even 1 sec?like when sweeping the road you may realize enlightment because of sudden development of wisdom?
     

    ek_rosh

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    So it can be even 1 sec?like when sweeping the road you may realize enlightment because of sudden development of wisdom?

    People may have different mental factor levels as is. For example, one can concentrate more than others. One can have good wisdom but he doesnt know what to look for or going after a wrong thing. Buddha also explains categories of people who can develop this properly or not.

    Olden supreme arihats mush have had wisdom at top level. As soon as they heard what to look for....thats it..

    but now, not matter how we heard the correct word or the way..we wont see it as our mental factor levels are low.

    BTW, wisdom is not only the one.. there are other few factors will develop thought the 8 fold path..

    btw, going for lunch.. will check back later//
     

    Emios

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    People may have different mental factor levels as is. For example, one can concentrate more than others. One can have good wisdom but he doesnt know what to look for or going after a wrong thing. Buddha also explains categories of people who can develop this properly or not.

    Olden supreme arihats mush have had wisdom at top level. As soon as they heard what to look for....thats it..

    but now, not matter how we heard the correct word or the way..we wont see it as our mental factor levels are low.

    BTW, wisdom is not only the one.. there are other few factors will develop thought the 8 fold path..

    btw, going for lunch.. will check back later//
    Ok let me know if i'm wasting your time mchn.What if if we can bring the wisdom you are talking by using an energy machine.So what normaly takes lifetimes to develop someone can attain the same by using a machine within seconds.I may be talking bull but i love to investigate these things.what do you think of this machine

     

    ek_rosh

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    Ok let me know if i'm wasting your time mchn.What if if we can bring the wisdom you are talking by using an energy machine.So what normaly takes lifetimes to develop someone can attain the same by using a machine within seconds.I may be talking bull but i love to investigate these things.what do you think of this machine


    Wisdom is something you will develop by yourself. It is an ability like concentration, no machine can do it for you, but some external things can help you do it yourself. Like, just having a gym will not make strong. But, you can make use it to become strong. Still you have to do it by yourself.

    I personally dont think someone needs to spend lifetime to gain such kind of wisdom under proper environment. The main problem today is that such kind of correct dharma is hard to find from commonly available sources (many monks are misleading). The second is that, people just trying chase nirvana (so something they think nirvana) without even knowing what it is. Chasing after a wrong goal will not give you a correct answer. Nobody has true need for seeking enlightment.
     
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    Emios

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    Wisdom is something you will develop by yourself. It is an ability like concentration, no machine can do it for you, but some external things can help you do it yourself. Like, just having a gym will not make strong. But, you can make use it to become strong. Still you have to do it by yourself.

    I personally dont think someone needs to spend lifetime to gain such kind of wisdom under proper environment. The main problem today is that such kind of correct dharma is hard to find from commonly available sources (many monks are misleading). The second is that, people just trying chase nirvana (so something they think nirvana) without even knowing what it is. Chasing after a wrong goal will not give you a correct answer. Nobody has true need for seeking enlightment.
    Yes i agree there is no need to chase.It's not another mental goal.But don't you think a machine can help to develop faster like in seconds?yes it's still you have to do it.
     

    ek_rosh

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    Yes i agree there is no need to chase.It's not another mental goal.But don't you think a machine can help to develop faster like in seconds?yes it's still you have to do it.

    These mental factors, what we are talking are not in the body level, not even in the brain level. I dont think they can be touched by something in physical plane. Even someone with 100% wisdom has no use if you dont know what to look for though it.
     

    greenthunder

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    බඩ්ඩගේ ගෝලයෝ ඉන්න මුලාවක මහත!

    දුක්ඛ, අනිත්‍ය, අනාත්ම ගැන අහපං- නෑ,
    තණ්හාව ගැන අහපං -නෑ!

    අහන්නේ එනර්ජි ගැන! තියෙන ශක්තියක් !එනර්ජි එකක් ගැන
    කවුදා ගොඩයන්නද ඉතින්?
    බුද්ධ දේශනාවේ මූලික හරය ගැන දැනුමක් නැතිවුනාම ඉතින් හොයන්නේ ඕවා!
    ඔය ප්‍රශ්නෙ ඇහිලා ඇහිලා එපා වෙලා තියෙන්නෙ
    බුදුදහමෙ ඔව්වා නැහැ කිව්වම පරලවෙලා යනවා යන්න.

    ඔය ප්‍රශ්නෙ අහන මිනිස්සුංට වඩා දැනුමක් තිබ්බා ඉස්සර ඉරට වැන්ද මිනිස්සුන්ට. ඒ මිනිස්සු දැනං හිටියා ඉර තමා අල්ටිමේට් එනර්ජි සෝර්ස් එක කියලා. භෞතිකව බැලුවම සූර්යය ශක්තිය තමා පෘතුවිය සහ ඒකෙ සත්තු පවත්වන්නෙ. එතනිං එහාට මොන ශක්තිද....:coffee:
     
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    Emios

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    These mental factors, what we are talking are not in the body level, not even in the brain level. I dont think they can be touched by something in physical plane. Even someone with 100% wisdom has no use if you dont know what to look for though it.
    So you mean a mental factor which has no physical boundry.How there can be any such factor without a boundry?no factor should remain if there is no boundry?It again seems like an infinite soul or a infinite factor

    ඔය ප්‍රශ්නෙ ඇහිලා ඇහිලා එපා වෙලා තියෙන්නෙ
    බුදුදහමෙ ඔව්වා නැහැ කිව්වම පරලවෙලා යනවා යන්න.

    ඔය ප්‍රශ්නෙ අහන මිනිස්සුංට වඩා දැනුමක් තිබ්බා ඉස්සර ඉරට වැන්ද මිනිස්සුන්ට. ඒ මිනිස්සු දැනං හිටියා ඉර තමා අල්ටිමේට් එනර්ජි සෝර්ස් එක කියලා. භෞතිකව බැලුවම සූර්යය ශක්තිය තමා පෘතුවිය සහ ඒකෙ සත්තු පවත්වන්නෙ. එතනිං එහාට මොන ශක්තිද....:coffee:
    Bauthikawa baluwama energy tiyenawa,waves tiyenawa.atom tiyenawa.Certainly there is energy which got concentrated to produce the sun.Waves got together to create the sun.So there is an underline energy which is responsible for the creation.you cannot ignore it.It's still an illusion i get it.But you cannot say it doesn't exist while you are inside the illusion
    ------ Post added on Jul 22, 2021 at 10:07 AM
     
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    greenthunder

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    Bauthikawa baluwama energy tiyenawa,waves tiyenawa.atom tiyenawa.Certainly there is energy which got concentrated to produce the sun.Waves got together to create the sun.So there is an underline energy which is responsible for the creation.you cannot ignore it.It's still an illusion i get it.But you cannot say it doesn't exist while you are inside the illusion
    ------ Post added on Jul 22, 2021 at 10:07 AM
    I didn't say anything of the sort. Assume much?
     
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    ewijesekara

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    Back Bay-Beacon Hill, Boston
    ඔය ප්‍රශ්නෙ ඇහිලා ඇහිලා එපා වෙලා තියෙන්නෙ
    බුදුදහමෙ ඔව්වා නැහැ කිව්වම පරලවෙලා යනවා යන්න.

    ඔය ප්‍රශ්නෙ අහන මිනිස්සුංට වඩා දැනුමක් තිබ්බා ඉස්සර ඉරට වැන්ද මිනිස්සුන්ට. ඒ මිනිස්සු දැනං හිටියා ඉර තමා අල්ටිමේට් එනර්ජි සෝර්ස් එක කියලා. භෞතිකව බැලුවම සූර්යය ශක්තිය තමා පෘතුවිය සහ ඒකෙ සත්තු පවත්වන්නෙ. එතනිං එහාට මොන ශක්තිද....:coffee:
    ප්‍රධාන පුරස්නේ බුද්ධ වචනය ගැන මූලික දැනුමක් නෑ. පදනමක් නෑ. හරියට බේසික් මැත බැරි එකා කොන්ටම් ෆිසික්ස් ගැන කතා කොරනවා වගේ.
    මහණෙනි බඹයක් පමණවු මේ සරීරය තුල ලෝකයේ හටගැන්මත් නිරෝධයත් පණවමි කියල දේශනා කලානේ. යංකිංචි සමුදය ධම්මං- සබ්බංතං නිරොධ ධම්මං - යම් හටගන්නා ධර්මතාවක් වේද ඒ සියල්ල නිරෝධ වන්නේය කියලා දේශනා කලානේ. ඒව හොයන්නේ නැ.. මේ කොහේවත් යන හින්දු මැජික් කාරයෙක් කියපු එනර්ජි එකක් බුද්ධ වචනේ ඇතුලේ ඔප්පු කොරගන්න දඟලනව! පව් ඉතිං එක අතකට...
     
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    Emios

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    I didn't say anything of the sort. Assume much?
    එතනිං එහාට මොන ශක්තිද....?kiyala ahuww

    ප්‍රධාන පුරස්නේ බුද්ධ වචනය ගැන මූලික දැනුමක් නෑ. පදනමක් නෑ. හරියට බේසික් මැත බැරි එකා කොන්ටම් ෆිසික්ස් ගැන කතා කොරනවා වගේ.
    මහණෙනි බඹයක් පමණවු මේ සරීරය තුල ලෝකයේ හටගැන්මත් නිරෝධයත් පණවමි කියල දේශනා කලානේ. යංකිංචි සමුදය ධම්මං- සබ්බතං නිරොධ ධම්මං - යම් හටගන්නා ධර්මතාවක් වේද ඒ සියල්ල නිරෝධ වන්නේය කියලා දේශනා කලානේ. ඒව හොයන්නේ නැ.. මේ කොහේවත් යන හින්දු මැජික් කාරයෙක් කියපු එනර්ජි එකක් බුද්ධ වචනේ ඇතුලේ ඔප්පු කොරගන්න දඟලනව! පව් ඉතිං එක අතකට...
    Oya kiyanna yanne shunyay kiyalane.loke hatagatteth loke nirdonaya wenneth shunyaye idan.energy eka prove karanna hadanne ipaditcha mayawa athule eka ubata terenne ne.energy eka use karanna puluwan oya uba kiyapu tikama realize karaganna bamyak wu shariyaya thula thama okoma hatagatte
    ------ Post added on Jul 22, 2021 at 10:23 AM
     

    ek_rosh

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    So you mean a mental factor which has no physical boundry.How there can be any such factor without a boundry?no factor should remain if there is no boundry?It again seems like an infinite soul or a infinite factor


    Bauthikawa baluwama energy tiyenawa,waves tiyenawa.atom tiyenawa.Certainly there is energy which got concentrated to produce the sun.Waves got together to create the sun.So there is an underline energy which is responsible for the creation.you cannot ignore it.It's still an illusion i get it.But you cannot say it doesn't exist while you are inside the illusion
    ------ Post added on Jul 22, 2021 at 10:07 AM

    Think of a mental factor as a way of handling a thought instead of an entity. They all rise and fall with the thought.

    * every factor in 52 does not rise with every thought..it depends on the thought. depending on which factor the thought goes through will determine weather it is a wholesome or unwholesome..etc thought
     

    Emios

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    අහල නැහැ නේ. "එතනිං එහාට මොන ශක්තිද....:coffee:" කියලනේ කියල තියෙන්නේ.
    You are trying to escape.I said inside the illusion waves atoms exist.you cannot neglect it.There is certainly infinite energy which got concentrated to produce the sun.Now don't say buddhism doesn't say it.I'm talking from inside illusion.

    Think of a mental factor as a way of handling a thought instead of an entity. They all rise and fall with the thought.

    * every factor in 52 does not rise with every thought..it depends on the thought. depending on which factor the thought goes through will determine weather it is a wholesome or unwholesome..etc thought
    It's again balancing positive and negative.It's still not enough to realize the illusion.using thought as a mechanism to dissolve itself.isn't it?
    ------ Post added on Jul 22, 2021 at 10:32 AM
     

    greenthunder

    Well-known member
  • Jul 24, 2010
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    You are trying to escape.I said inside the illusion waves atoms exist.you cannot neglect it.There is certainly infinite energy which got concentrated to produce the sun.Now don't say buddhism doesn't say it.I'm talking from inside illusion.

    What the hell?:lol:

    Dude cant you read? I wasn't even talking to you. I was merely replying to @ewijesekara . I didn't even read the thread, let alone some atom-illusion mumbo jumbo.
    And frankly I've no interest in talking to you. There is nothing you could tell me that I haven't heard before. Now thats based on your past posts in this forum and that is what I was pointing out in my reply to ewijesekara.
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: ewijesekara

    ek_rosh

    Active member
  • May 9, 2014
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    You are trying to escape.I said inside the illusion waves atoms exist.you cannot neglect it.There is certainly infinite energy which got concentrated to produce the sun.Now don't say buddhism doesn't say it.I'm talking from inside illusion.


    It's again balancing positive and negative.It's still not enough to realize the illusion.using thought as a mechanism to dissolve itself.isn't it?
    ------ Post added on Jul 22, 2021 at 10:32 AM

    Yes, a normal person will always lies between + and - thoughts, and leaves a trigger for a next thought. An enlightened one will not leave a trigger for a next thought. So, it is not killing a persistent thought technically.
     

    Emios

    Well-known member
  • Dec 10, 2009
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    What the hell?:lol:

    Dude cant you read? I wasn't even talking to you. I was merely replying to @ewijesekara . I didn't even read the thread, let alone some atom-illusion mumbo jumbo.
    And frankly I've no interest in talking to you. There is nothing you could tell me that I haven't heard before. Now thats based on your past posts in this forum and that is what I was pointing out in my reply to ewijesekara.
    Seems like the ego has manifested into a even bigger one with all the knowledge and assumptions you got?

    Yes, a normal person will always lies between + and - thoughts, and leaves a trigger for a next thought. An enlightened one will not leave a trigger for a next thought. So, it is not killing a persistent thought technically.
    So mchn my quection is can't you not leave a trigger for the next with the understanding of nature of energy mechanism?
    ------ Post added on Jul 22, 2021 at 10:42 AM
     

    ewijesekara

    Well-known member
  • Mar 10, 2017
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    Back Bay-Beacon Hill, Boston
    එතනිං එහාට මොන ශක්තිද....?kiyala ahuww


    Oya kiyanna yanne shunyay kiyalane.loke hatagatteth loke nirdonaya wenneth shunyaye idan.energy eka prove karanna hadanne ipaditcha mayawa athule eka ubata terenne ne.energy eka use karanna puluwan oya uba kiyapu tikama realize karaganna bamyak wu shariyaya thula thama okoma hatagatte
    ------ Post added on Jul 22, 2021 at 10:23 AM
    මොන කුනුහරුප දොඩවනවද මම දන්නේ නෑ! ඔහොම ශූන්‍යක් බුද්ධ වචනය ඇතුලේ නෑ. ශූන්‍ය ගැන බුද්ධ වචනය ඔනේ නම් මහන්සි වෙලා පොත් කියවල ඉගෙන ගනිං. එක එක හින්දු හිපාටුවන්ගෙන් උඹට බුද්ධ වචනය ඉගෙන ගන්න පුලුවන් කියන එකම මුලාවක් කියල උඹට තේරෙන්නේ නැතුව නෙවෙයි, ඒ ත් උඹට ඕනේ "ආහ් මේ නිවන ලේසියට පහසුවට කොරගන්න පුලුවන් - අර විදි 112ක් තීනවනේ කියල ඉන්ස්ටන්ට් ක්‍රමයක් හොයන එක! යකෝ !බුද්ධ වචනයේ එන ශුන්‍යතාවය ඔහොම මල විකාරයක් නෙවෙයි!

    ඇත, නැත කියන අන්ත දෙකම බුදු හාමුදුරුවෝ අතැරියා-සමුදය දකින කෙනා නැත කියන අන්තෙන් අල්ලන්නේ නෑ, නිරෝධය දකින කෙනා ඇත කියන අන්තෙට වැටෙන්නෙත් නෑ! උඹේ පිස්සු මල විකාර මායාව ඇතුලේ වේව්ස් තියෙනවා කියල අරගන්න කොහෙවත් කියලා නෑ.

    "ඉමස්මිං සති ඉදං හෝති ඉමස්සුප්පාදා ඉදං උපපජ්ජති ඉමස්මිං අසති ඉදං න හෝති, ඉමස්ස නිරෝධා ඉදං නිරුජ්ඣති,"
    මෙසේ මේ හේතුධර්මය ඇති කල්හි මෙය ඇත්තේ ය. මේ ධර්මයේ ඉපදීමෙන් මෙය උපදීය. මේ ධර්මය නැති කල්හි මෙය නැත, මෙය නිරුද්ධ වීමෙන් මෙය නිරුද්ධ වේය.
    Key point - මේ හේතුධර්මය ඇති කල්හි මෙය ඇත්තේ ය- එය නෙවෙයි.

    පටිච්ච් සමුප්පාදය ඉගෙන ගනිං.!!


    මේකත් දැම්මේ මට පිනක් නිසා. හරි වෙහෙසයි උඹලා වගේ එවුන් එක්ක ඩිස්කශන්!
     

    Emios

    Well-known member
  • Dec 10, 2009
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    මොන කුනුහරුප දොඩවනවද මම දන්නේ නෑ! ඔහොම ශූන්‍යක් බුද්ධ වචනය ඇතුලේ නෑ. ශූන්‍ය ගැන බුද්ධ වචනය ඔනේ නම් මහන්සි වෙලා පොත් කියවල ඉගෙන ගනිං. එක එක හින්දු හිපාටුවන්ගෙන් උඹට බුද්ධ වචනය ඉගෙන ගනන් පුලුවන් කියන එකම මුලාවක් කියල උඹට තේරෙන්නේ නැතුව නෙවෙයි, ඒ ත් උඹට ඕනේ "ආහ් මේ නිවන ලේසියට පහසුවට කොරගන්න පුලුවන් - අර විදි 112ක් තීනවනේ කියල ඉන්ස්ටන්ට් ක්‍රමයක් හොයන එක! යකෝ !බුද්ධ වචනයේ එන ශුන්‍යතාවය ඔහොම මල විකාරයක් නෙවෙයි!
    ඇත, නැත කියන අන්ත දෙකම බුදු හාමුදුරුවෝ අතැරියා-සමුදය දකින කෙනා නැත කියන අන්තෙන් අල්ලන්නේ නෑ, නිරෝධය දකින කෙනා ඇත කියන අන්තෙට වැටෙන්නෙත් නෑ! උඹේ පිස්සු මල විකර මායාව ඇතුලේ වේව්ස් තියෙනවා කියල අරගන්න කොහෙවත් කියලා නෑ.

    "ඉමස්මිං සති ඉදං හෝති ඉමස්සුප්පාදා ඉදං උපපජ්ජති ඉමස්මිං අසති ඉදං න හෝති, ඉමස්ස නිරෝධා ඉදං නිරුජ්ඣති,"
    මෙසේ මේ හේතුධර්මය ඇති කල්හි මෙය ඇත්තේ ය. මේ ධර්මයේ ඉපදීමෙන් මෙය උපදීය. මේ ධර්මය නැති කල්හි මෙය නැත, මෙය නිරුද්ධ වීමෙන් මෙය නිරුද්ධ වේය.
    Key point - මේ හේතුධර්මය ඇති කල්හි මෙය ඇත්තේ ය- එය නෙවෙයි.

    පටිච්ච් සමුප්පාදය ඉගෙන ගනිං.!!


    මේකත් දැම්මේ මට පිනක් නිසා. හරි වෙහෙසයි උඹලා වගේ එවුන් එක්ක ඩිස්කශන්!
    dude don't get angry i'm trying to build a good argument.That's all.ඇත, නැත කියන අන්ත දෙකම බුදු හාමුදුරුවෝ අතැරියා ithin ban ekane shunya kiyanne,empty

    හරි වෙහෙසයි උඹලා වගේ එවුන් එක්ක ඩිස්කශන්!
    e argue karala newe mahansi ube hadagatta mano loka kadenawata athi akamatta.