අන්න හරි. ඒක තේරුම් ගත්ත එක වටිනවා.
ඔය වැඩෙන් English improve කරගන්නත් උදව් ලැබෙනවා. අත්දැකීමෙන් කියන්නේ.
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ඔය වැඩෙන් English improve කරගන්නත් උදව් ලැබෙනවා. අත්දැකීමෙන් කියන්නේ.
ඇයි, Valariya වට ඇත්තටම මොකද වුනේ?... Ashai වලින් එහා තියෙන දේවල්... Sothoryos ගැන එහෙම...
Little finger nam puduma kapatiyek dakkane hari thanatana wade dial thiyena hatiදැන් Balon Greyjoy ගේ සහෝදරයත් ඇවිල්ලා තියෙන නිසා වැඩේ ලේසි වෙන්නේ නෑ. ඌ මහා දරුණු එකෙක් ලු.
අනික Greyjoys ලා කවදාවත් අනුන්ගේ පව් වලට කරගහන්න යන්නේ නෑ , උන්ගේ motto එක තමයි We do not sow
khalisi මුහුද cross කරලා එනකොට කුණාටු ඇවිල්ලා කෙලවෙන්නත් පුළුවන්, දන්නවනේ මාර්ටින් අයියගේ වැඩ
තව red woman කෙනෙක් එනවා නේද ඊළඟ episode එකේ? ඉතිං what if she is the real red woman??
අද එපියේ little finger හිටියේ Vale වල, ඊළඟ එපියේ little finger north එකේ wall එකට එනවා , මූ මොනවා plan කරනවද දන්නේ නෑ, ඔක්කොම houses ටික කොටවලා ඔක්කොම මරවලා පස්සේ Lannisters ලට ලේසියෙන්ම north එක අල්ලගන්න පාර කපනවද දන්නේ නෑ
දැන් Balon Greyjoy ගේ සහෝදරයත් ඇවිල්ලා තියෙන නිසා වැඩේ ලේසි වෙන්නේ නෑ
අනික Greyjoys ලා කවදාවත් අනුන්ගේ පව් වලට කරගහන්න යන්නේ නෑ , උන්ගේ motto එක තමයි We do not sow
khalisi මුහුද cross කරලා එනකොට කුණාටු ඇවිල්ලා කෙලවෙන්නත් පුළුවන්
තව red woman කෙනෙක් එනවා නේද ඊළඟ episode එකේ? ඉතිං what if she is the real red woman??
අද එපියේ little finger හිටියේ Vale වල, ඊළඟ එපියේ little finger north එකේ wall එකට එනවා , මූ මොනවා plan කරනවද දන්නේ නෑ
little finger 5th episode eke wall eka gawa idala 6th episode eke winterfell wala idida danne na... amara kapatiyek oka
mona unath oo tikak strategy thinking ekak thiyenne.
kawa wath tharaha kara gnne nathuwa lassanata kotawala uge para hada gnnawa
badu pot eke aithi karayata dn Arryn army ekatath command denna puluwan una..
ow oe thawa red women knk awa thama
Then in the books how did he survive during the sack of King's Landing and what about the fight between Red Viper and the Mountain?
Varys smuggled him. To his friend Illyrio Mopatis at pentos as I remember. Then a whole gang from westeros came and looked after him. Leaded by exiled hand of the king before Chelsted, Jon Connigton.
But there are theories that this Aegon maybe a blackfire.. I saw something like that in a place. But it's highly unlikely. Cause then there's no point to support Danerys other than trying to start a rebellion of their own
Red viper dies at the hand of Gregor. Same as in the show.
And gregor comes back as Sir Strong.
ඇයි, Valariya වට ඇත්තටම මොකද වුනේ?... Ashai වලින් එහා තියෙන දේවල්... Sothoryos ගැන එහෙම...
Valyria burned. Lava walin mathaka widihata. Something like a world ending.
ne ban ekima kiwwe eka real kiyala
“This is all me, all proud, all strong. I’m just feeling genuinely happy I said ‘Yes.’ That ain’t no body double!”
Well that’s what GRRM chooses to tell us. Jamie is the only eyewitness, the only person who can say what happened inside the castle during the sack. As long as there is no conflicting evidence, we choose to believe what Jamie says because there is no other choice. Does that seem unfair to you?
Ned is the only eyewitness account (GRRM chooses to provide) as to what happened at the tower or joy. As long as there’s no conflicting evidence (ex- Reed says something), we choose to believe what he says because there is no other choice. The conversations you pasted before are from a DREAM Ned had. He’s not even saying them directly. We choose to go by Ned’s dream because that’s what GRRM gives us.
You’re making two claims not supported by the text.
1. Jamie lied to the face of Lady Tarth – This is not supported by any evidence in the text. Does Lady Tarth doubt his words? No. Does Lady Catlyn doubt his words? Again no. Jamie is a POV character in the text. That means we know what he’s thinking and we know his reflections etc. Is there any place where he thinks about lying to Lady Tarth? No. Also he tells the truth to the face of Lady Catlyn when she asks about Brian. Is there any gain in that? What possible gain can he expect? Why didn’t he lie?
2. He understands those lies and tries to cleanse himself – again is not supported by any evidence in the text (as far as I can remember). Jamie is a POV character in the text and GRRM would at least include one sentence to support this claim if this was the case. Is there any evidence in the text to indicate that he was lying to himself and others about his actions? If you can provide something, we don’t have to argue about this any more.
I will repeat again. There is no evidence in that cannon that a Kingsguard can disregard his previous oaths in favor of the ones he take as a kingsguard. There are certain things he has to disregard but certainly not the oaths.
In contrast, a man of black has to disregard everything about him when he joins. This is explained in details with many examples.
OK. Let’s go by your argument here. Say I’m Jamie, I’m the only kingsguard who knows.
I want to stop the bloodshed, I sent a massage asking permission to negotiate (I can’t do without king’s order). MK says “No negotiations. Go and kill your father”. I learn that Rossart is with the king. I know what’s coming and go to stop Lossart. I don’t have time to deal with anything else.
1. I meet Rossart face to face. But I can’t kill him. How can I kill the king’s hand? That’s betraying the king and breaking my oath. So I take him prisoner and tie him up. While I waste 5 minutes doing that, MK has ordered another ass#ole to burn down the city. This second dude takes another route and start preparations.
2. Now I meet MK. But I can’t kill him. How can I kill the king? That’s breaking my oath. So I take him prisoner and tie him up too.
3. And then comes my father’s men. I ask them to spare anyone who surrenders. I can’t do anything else ‘cause I’m the only kingsguard and I have to protect MK.
4. Then comes Ned. I hand over MK and tell him what happened. Ned says “Oh you caught the king? But you’re kingsguard. How can you betray the King? You broke the oath! Also I just caught the hand. You’ve attacked him too. You naughty boy! You betrayed the king!”
5. MK also wakes up and shout “traitor” because I didn’t obey his order and killed my father.
6. Then comes the fire. It kills a thousand before it’s put out.
7. Later comes the trials. I can’t testify against MK because of my oath. Rossart says he was only following orders. In the end, no one knows what Rossart and other ass#oles really did and they all escape justice.
So in the end, what am I? An oathbreaker. That’s it. Attacking the king’s hand is betraying him. Holding the king prisoner is betraying him. Not killing my father is betraying king. If I decide to testify and tell the truth, I’ll be breaking yet another oath. Thousand people died anyway because I couldn’t kill just one pathetic ass#ole.
Jamie has already explained all of these in one sentence. No matter what you do, you’re an oathbreaker.
So, what’s your solution to this? Explain clearly what Jamie should have done. Explain how he could have upheld his vows AND stop mass murder at the same time. If you can do this, there's no need to argue about this any more.
Sorry you can’t justify a third option in your own line of thinking. Attacking the king’s hand/holding him prisoner is betraying king. Holding the king prisoner is betraying king. Not killing his father is betraying king. You want a fair trial for MK? Jamie can’t testify. That’s also breaking the oath. MK can never have a fair trial.
So you want him to break two vows instead of one? Did he not explain why he did not tell anyone about MK’s plans to burn everyone? He says he’s trying to honour that vow at least but you’re having non of that.
OK. Let’s just say he wanted to kill Tywin. Can you please explain how he’s going to do that within the limited time he had? Did he have time to find and kill Tywin? He rushed to stop Rossart the moment he heard about him. Then he rushed to stop MK. Then he didn’t even have time to hide before others showed up.
Here's another one of your claims that's not supported by the text.
Immediately after he killed MK, his father’s men came in. He did not even have the time to hide and escape blame (he thinks this). Then he sees the BLAME in their face (this is in one of his POV chapter) and he knew that there’s going to be blame. So if he didn’t care at that time, why did he ever thought of hiding and escaping blame? If he didn’t care about what others think, why did the blame bother him that much?
Here’s another –
I previously pointed out that his father’s men came immediately after he killed MK. He told them to spare anyone who surrenders. But you say he didn’t even attempt to stop the murdering. What do you have to say about that?
You said previously - Ned says this well in the show "You served him well, when serving was safe."
You forget that the show had already established Ned as a liar. People who have not read the books are already questioning his honour but you’re comfortable quoting Ned just to throw some blame at Jamie.
Can’t you see that you’re heavily biased against this character?
ඒකත් ඇත්ත. මොකද ඔය Tagarian ල ගින්නට පිච්චෙන්නේ නෑ කියන කතාවත් බොරුවක්
Hodor dragon කෙනෙක් ride කලොත් dragon ට Hodor Hodor Hodor කියන වචනයම ඇහිලා පිස්සු හැදෙයි
කවුරුහරි මෑන්ස්ට spell එකක් දාලා තියෙනවා
onna iye dakkane vuna de.. :|
අන්න හරි. ඒක තේරුම් ගත්ත එක වටිනවා.
ඔය වැඩෙන් English improve කරගන්නත් උදව් ලැබෙනවා. අත්දැකීමෙන් කියන්නේ.
ඔව් දැන් චුට්ටක් චුට්ටක් පුළුවන්
ඒ ඉන්නේ එකිමලු බන්
And then again, you don't seem to understand what "Kingsguard" is and what they stands for. (And this stands higher than any other vow he swore, even ignoring his loyalty to his house. All those things are secondary & non-important against this. That's the point of having a personal guard like this. That's why Aegon the Conqueror made a kingsguard). The oath of the kingsguard is described by many people who took it. From Barristan Selmy to Gerold Hightower to Oswell Whent to Jaime Lannister. You can find those things in the books.
There's a difference between a person killing another person, and a person killing another person who entitled that person with the task of protecting him. Who trusted his life with him. And the other person, who swore a vow to protect the other person's life with his own. Let his blood fall before letting others shed the blood of the person he swore to protect.
You don't seem to comprehend this.
And,,,, "The first Kingsguard was created at the suggestion of Visenya Targaryen, after a Dornish assassination attempt on Aegon in the streets of King's Landing. She self-consciously modeled the Kingsguard vows of holding no lands or title on the ancient vows of the Night's Watch"
There's a difference to what a person dreams of, what he thinks and what he says. AND NED DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE TOWER OF JOY, (well maybe except for the obvious things, such as they went there killed 3 of the kingsguard and saw lyanna dying & somethings to Bran as per reed saving him from Arthur.), AND he doesn't have any controversial decisions about it except for the secrecy that important event holds.
But Jaime and his struggle for the decision he took seriously affects him & his character and there are many countless times he doubts himself and gets disappointed.
I can't go back to the books and point them out one by one cause it'll take a lot of time but I'll try to use quotes and what I remember.
And take this to account. That according to you the show brands NED as a liar but only after the show took a different path from the book. There's no such thing in the books. And I quoted that from the show because at that period the show was the same story as the book. Things were very similar then.
And I'm not biased. I just reveal the facts and the decisions and accept for what they are.. You are just defending jaime from his accusations saying he chose to honour one vow because he took them seriously. So speaking about this particular vow.. I ask you were was his so called honour when he dropped bran? when he killed ned's men? and again did not honour his promise to Catelyn accordingly? Your honour of his as a knight only seem to appear during this certain event.
1. It's not what he says to others that are lies. It's what he says to himself to justify his actions & that he points out those things to others which are lies.
2. There are. As I've stated in several of the posts above..
“That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.”
– Jaime's thoughts on himself
“I have made kings and unmade them. Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.”
- Jaime to Brienne of Tarth
"Make a habit of it, Lannister, and one day men might call you Goldenhand after all. Goldenhand the Just.”
- thoughts of Jaime after hanging outlaws
“Defeated in the Whispering Wood by the Young Wolf Robb Stark during the War of the Five Kings. Held captive at Riverrun and ransomed for a promise unfulfilled. Captured again by the Brave Companions, and maimed at the word of Vargo Hoat their captain, losing his sword hand to the blade of Zollo the Fat. Returned safely to King's Landing by Brienne, the Maid of Tarth.”
- Jaime writing of himself in the White Book
This is why I say Jaime changes, but only after he becomes helpless by loosing his hand. Then his view of the world changes. (And might I add this difference is not only said by Jaime, but being observed by Brienne, Cersei and many others also)
Again, you can understand what were the kingsguards' vows are by the people who interprets it.
"The first duty of the Kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king's commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and keep silent when it was not, serve his pleasure and defend his name and honor. Strictly speaking, it was purely the king's choice whether or not to extend Kingsguard protection to others, even those of the royal blood. Some kings thought it right and proper to dispatch Kingsguard to serve and defend their wives and children, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins of greater and lesser degree, and occasionally even their lovers, mistresses and bastards."
- Barristan Selmy in ADWD
Okay then, lets go to your main argument of this business with Aerys.
The point you make towards Jaime withholding his vows as a knight is saying that, he killed aerys to save countless innocent lives.
The thing is, you cannot hide behind that. Because whether or not he stopped the destruction of the city, the sack of landing is happening. (Doesn't matter whether one happened before or after the other. The point is it's happening) Jaime hides his actions behind this point to prove that the actions he took was correct.
And I don't mean that disobeying his vows and acting against king's will isn't what he should do at this point. What I'm saying is, his irrational action of killing Aerys cold-bloodedly defines that he did not care about his vows.
1. No lannister would've raised a hand against Jaime. So even before the Sack started he could've gone to Tywin & co and came to an understanding. Or even sent a message. But he did not care for the actions or their consequences which were about to happen
2. Even if he chose to ignore king's decisions, not honouring his vows as a member of the kigsguard, HE SHOULD NOT KILL THE KING. THAT'S OUT OF HIS HAND. Because that's the most important thing in the vow he took, and his action of killing Aerys cannot be justified.
3. Even if he's not of the kingsguard, he can't go and simply murder a king because it's a crime. AKA KINGSLAYING. And to add that, at that point Aerys IS SIMPLY A HELPLESS OLD MAN. HE'S ISOLATED IN THE THRONE ROOM WHERE THERE IS NO EXIT. What does he do at that time? shits himself and crawls towards the Iron Throne. Helpless. It's against as per your knightly vows to kill a helpless man enemy or not, insane or not.. There should be a trial.
Why would he kill Aerys there when he could simply captured him and held him accountable for his actions in a trial? Irrational & vile. And personal hatred. (For using him as a puppet, taking him away from Cersei).
Anyone could've slit Aerys' throat at that time. But the hardest and the most rational thing to do in a PLACE like Jaime is to find a way not to kill him.
That's why I said he should have sought out a third option.I never said that Jaime is the Hero or the Villain of the story. I simply said he did not care about his vows. Even to honour one by betraying the other.
And you're telling that Jaime sought out everything you pointed out about betraying his oath from killing rossart to the trials in a same thought???? That he had planned out how it'll work out??(That's BS)
Let's say as per you he thought all those and followed up with killing aerys..
Then what's the point of talking about this other than calling him selfish?
You can't hide behind the fact of killing Aerys to save innocent people. Because the innocent people were killed whether he killed Aryes or Not. Don't tell that he choose a lesser evil. Because he should have could have found a way to stop that too.
And then again he could've protected Elia & her children in the Red Keep. At least provide them with some protection. Or at least give a shit about them. He did not.
And then again there are facts and events to support & confirm Jaime's irrational and vile behaviour. Specially Bran's incident. He just simply threw him to his death. Even cersei claimed that was irrational.
Jaime killed Aerys to save the City? That's just Blasphemy. It was already lost. He only made it an excuse to justify his actions at that time.
“His brother never untied a knot when he could slash it in two with his sword.”
– Tyrion Lannister's thoughts on Jaime
This is what Jaime was. And it wasn't for any honouring any vows, it was personal hatred, anger and irrational thinking.
There's a difference between a person killing another person, and a person killing another person who entitled that person with the task of protecting him. Who trusted his life with him. And the other person, who swore a vow to protect the other person's life with his own. Let his blood fall before letting others shed the blood of the person he swore to protect.
You don't seem to comprehend this.
And,,,, "The first Kingsguard was created at the suggestion of Visenya Targaryen, after a Dornish assassination attempt on Aegon in the streets of King's Landing. She self-consciously modeled the Kingsguard vows of holding no lands or title on the ancient vows of the Night's Watch"
There's a difference to what a person dreams of, what he thinks and what he says. AND NED DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE TOWER OF JOY, (well maybe except for the obvious things, such as they went there killed 3 of the kingsguard and saw lyanna dying & somethings to Bran as per reed saving him from Arthur.), AND he doesn't have any controversial decisions about it except for the secrecy that important event holds.
But Jaime and his struggle for the decision he took seriously affects him & his character and there are many countless times he doubts himself and gets disappointed.
I can't go back to the books and point them out one by one cause it'll take a lot of time but I'll try to use quotes and what I remember.
And take this to account. That according to you the show brands NED as a liar but only after the show took a different path from the book. There's no such thing in the books. And I quoted that from the show because at that period the show was the same story as the book. Things were very similar then.
And I'm not biased. I just reveal the facts and the decisions and accept for what they are.. You are just defending jaime from his accusations saying he chose to honour one vow because he took them seriously. So speaking about this particular vow.. I ask you were was his so called honour when he dropped bran? when he killed ned's men? and again did not honour his promise to Catelyn accordingly? Your honour of his as a knight only seem to appear during this certain event.
1. It's not what he says to others that are lies. It's what he says to himself to justify his actions & that he points out those things to others which are lies.
2. There are. As I've stated in several of the posts above..
“That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.”
– Jaime's thoughts on himself
“I have made kings and unmade them. Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.”
- Jaime to Brienne of Tarth
"Make a habit of it, Lannister, and one day men might call you Goldenhand after all. Goldenhand the Just.”
- thoughts of Jaime after hanging outlaws
“Defeated in the Whispering Wood by the Young Wolf Robb Stark during the War of the Five Kings. Held captive at Riverrun and ransomed for a promise unfulfilled. Captured again by the Brave Companions, and maimed at the word of Vargo Hoat their captain, losing his sword hand to the blade of Zollo the Fat. Returned safely to King's Landing by Brienne, the Maid of Tarth.”
- Jaime writing of himself in the White Book
This is why I say Jaime changes, but only after he becomes helpless by loosing his hand. Then his view of the world changes. (And might I add this difference is not only said by Jaime, but being observed by Brienne, Cersei and many others also)
Again, you can understand what were the kingsguards' vows are by the people who interprets it.
"The first duty of the Kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king's commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and keep silent when it was not, serve his pleasure and defend his name and honor. Strictly speaking, it was purely the king's choice whether or not to extend Kingsguard protection to others, even those of the royal blood. Some kings thought it right and proper to dispatch Kingsguard to serve and defend their wives and children, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins of greater and lesser degree, and occasionally even their lovers, mistresses and bastards."
- Barristan Selmy in ADWD
Okay then, lets go to your main argument of this business with Aerys.
The point you make towards Jaime withholding his vows as a knight is saying that, he killed aerys to save countless innocent lives.
The thing is, you cannot hide behind that. Because whether or not he stopped the destruction of the city, the sack of landing is happening. (Doesn't matter whether one happened before or after the other. The point is it's happening) Jaime hides his actions behind this point to prove that the actions he took was correct.
And I don't mean that disobeying his vows and acting against king's will isn't what he should do at this point. What I'm saying is, his irrational action of killing Aerys cold-bloodedly defines that he did not care about his vows.
1. No lannister would've raised a hand against Jaime. So even before the Sack started he could've gone to Tywin & co and came to an understanding. Or even sent a message. But he did not care for the actions or their consequences which were about to happen
2. Even if he chose to ignore king's decisions, not honouring his vows as a member of the kigsguard, HE SHOULD NOT KILL THE KING. THAT'S OUT OF HIS HAND. Because that's the most important thing in the vow he took, and his action of killing Aerys cannot be justified.
3. Even if he's not of the kingsguard, he can't go and simply murder a king because it's a crime. AKA KINGSLAYING. And to add that, at that point Aerys IS SIMPLY A HELPLESS OLD MAN. HE'S ISOLATED IN THE THRONE ROOM WHERE THERE IS NO EXIT. What does he do at that time? shits himself and crawls towards the Iron Throne. Helpless. It's against as per your knightly vows to kill a helpless man enemy or not, insane or not.. There should be a trial.
Why would he kill Aerys there when he could simply captured him and held him accountable for his actions in a trial? Irrational & vile. And personal hatred. (For using him as a puppet, taking him away from Cersei).
Anyone could've slit Aerys' throat at that time. But the hardest and the most rational thing to do in a PLACE like Jaime is to find a way not to kill him.
That's why I said he should have sought out a third option.I never said that Jaime is the Hero or the Villain of the story. I simply said he did not care about his vows. Even to honour one by betraying the other.
And you're telling that Jaime sought out everything you pointed out about betraying his oath from killing rossart to the trials in a same thought???? That he had planned out how it'll work out??(That's BS)
Let's say as per you he thought all those and followed up with killing aerys..
Then what's the point of talking about this other than calling him selfish?
You can't hide behind the fact of killing Aerys to save innocent people. Because the innocent people were killed whether he killed Aryes or Not. Don't tell that he choose a lesser evil. Because he should have could have found a way to stop that too.
And then again he could've protected Elia & her children in the Red Keep. At least provide them with some protection. Or at least give a shit about them. He did not.
And then again there are facts and events to support & confirm Jaime's irrational and vile behaviour. Specially Bran's incident. He just simply threw him to his death. Even cersei claimed that was irrational.
Jaime killed Aerys to save the City? That's just Blasphemy. It was already lost. He only made it an excuse to justify his actions at that time.
“His brother never untied a knot when he could slash it in two with his sword.”
– Tyrion Lannister's thoughts on Jaime
This is what Jaime was. And it wasn't for any honouring any vows, it was personal hatred, anger and irrational thinking.
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