Game of Thrones Fans

[pazzy12]

Very disappointed with the Tower of Joy battle. Reasons-

1. From Eddard’s POV, his sister was kidnapped and raped. Now, the most illustrious Knight in the world (a man praised and respected even by his enemies) is standing between him and his sister for no reason and wants to shed blood for no reason (Mad king, his son are dead). This makes zero sense. How can a virtuous person like Ser Dayne sink to this level? Why can’t Eddard ask the most simple question (why are you doing this?) before start fighting?

2. Robert had already pardoned Ser Barriston and he clearly says he has no intention of punishing those who’re doing their duty. So why didn’t Eddard try to TALK to Ser Dayne and try to stop a pointless bloodshed? Again makes no sense. Eddard clearly didn’t expect ALL his men to survive did he? Ser Dayne was the greatest swordsman.

3. In the books, it’s clearly established that Eddard owes his life to Reed. He even explains this to his son. In the series, he lies about it and says he defeated Ser Dayne. This is totally out of character for Eddard (embodiment of virtue). There’s no reason to deny that his life was saved by Lord Reed, his loyal friend who’s loyal enough to send this two children (who never set a foot outside home) to aid Stark’s son.

4. Crannogmen fight with unorthodox weapons like frog spears and nets (from the way Meera handles these weapons, they’re very effective). Also Lord Reed is said to have superhuman abilities (it says he can hide his whole tribe from the eyes of others). Him stabbing Ser Dayne on the back is an insult to the character.

So basically this one was a lame, half-assed attempt at one of the most important scenes of the story. They’ve spent more effort on useless scenes like Sam vomiting a dozen times.

This is why i rate breaking bad ahead of GOT

 

[Challenger SRT8]

Shaggy Dog

 

[speedmalli]

Very disappointed with the Tower of Joy battle. Reasons-

1. From Eddard’s POV, his sister was kidnapped and raped. Now, the most illustrious Knight in the world (a man praised and respected even by his enemies) is standing between him and his sister for no reason and wants to shed blood for no reason (Mad king, his son are dead). This makes zero sense. How can a virtuous person like Ser Dayne sink to this level? Why can’t Eddard ask the most simple question (why are you doing this?) before start fighting?

Even it may seem shallow. Its like this in my opinion. lyanna stark and rhaegar targaryen are actually in love. And she's pregnant. Now Targaryens' only hope is pregnant Lyanna. when they were loosing the war king Aerys send his best guardsman to watch for rhaegar. and why is it called tower of joy ? Whats the most joy a person can have ? think ? having a child is it not ? so Lyanna is there to give birth on her will or not which we dont know. Eddard must already know whats happening but cannot take an army there. because if Robert find out lyanna's children are targaryens will he ever let them be ? peace will never come if so!

 

[Alucard_SxE]

Ok here's a big news flash. (Even I've forgotten this part and someone reminded me)
The TV show will definitely turn differently than the books because of this fact.

Raegar's son by Elia Martell.. his heir - Aegon Targaryen

In the books he is alive and well. hidden with jon connigton and when travelling to meet Danerys, meets up with tyrion.
And then changes their mind sometime after and goes back to westeros to capture Storms End and reclaim Aegon's birthright. (I've totally forgotten this part of ADWD)
So this makes things harder for everyone including Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons & Danerys. (Since her official claim to the throne is delayed by the new heir) And also all the prophesies become a bit puzzling too. Technically, he was to be the "Prince that was promised" and both Rhaegar & Aemon believed that atm. But then Rhaegar & Lyanna happened.

And clearly Aegon Targaryen IS NOT IN THE SHOW. That is one of the most important characters in the plot and to the upcoming events since it changes almost everything including loyalties. But clearly he is not in the show. So definitely the show will be a lot different than in the books

 

[yasas bandara]

First of all I don't watch the TV show so I don't know what happens there. I'll interpret what I remember from the books.

1. As I remember Eddard never says that his sister was kidnapped & raped. That is what everybody else knows including Robert Baratheon. Rhaegar might have had different intentions with lyanna for the greater good and Lyanna mght have asked eddard to keep that a secret from the whole world.

1. I’m talking about the way they (TV guys) handled one of the most important scenes of the story. My argument may not apply to the books due to several reasons. In the books, we know what Ned is thinking. His reflections, thoughts are part of the story. We know that he may have suspected (or knew) the truth about Rhagan+Lyanna BEFORE he came to the Tower (Lyanna saying Robert may never be satisfied with one woman etc.). Still, those are just speculations.

In the TV series, this is what happens – a handfull of dudes on the back of horses come to the middle of nowhere. They meet two other dudes clad in mail, armed to the teeth and one of them happens to be the greatest fighter alive. It’s very clear that several dudes are going to die from this battle. The weird thing is, no one knows what/who the Knights are protecting and even weirder, no one wants to know! No one even cares to ask why. It is almost like they’ve already agreed to kill each other no matter what. That’s disappointing because these are not some ordinary cutthroats we come across but a few of the most honorable characters of the story. This TV show already has a reputation for butchering good characters (Ex- Ser Lores).

And “Why?” is a very important question. If it’s a person they’re protecting, it can’t be Lyanna because obviously her own brother is not here to kill her. Did the prince say “Don’t worry about me. Just stay here and kill whoever coming looking for her, even her own brother”? Does that even make sense? Clearly, these guys are not guarding Lyanna.

So, what the #&*# are these guys protecting? If I’m a member of Ned’s team, I’d like to know WHY I’m risking my neck before locking swords with Ser Dayne.

Their duty is to ALWAYS serve & protect the king. Their honour bounds them to the kings word. Whether the king was mad or wrong doesn't make a difference.

You don’t get to play this card in the TV show. Jamie already went through that (This is a plus point to the show). You take an oath when you become a Knight. Your duties as a kingsguard DOES NOT free you from that oath. So when the mad king orders to kill thousands on innocents, Jamie kills the guy and the king who’s responsible. He breaks one oath to protect another. Then he keeps the whole matter a secret to protect another oath (in the text, he kills everyone responsible one at a time).

So if Lyanna died due to lack of medical support (there was no Maester), Ser Dayne and the others were responsible (not some guy rotting in a grave who gave the order). THEY are holding her.

2. Robert ordered Barriston to be treated and he explained why. This reasoning is clearly valid for others. So why can’t Ned even try talking to Ser Dayne? He’s asking for his own blood, his own sister. He may not care for the kingsguard but he cares for his men. Why risk their lives pointlessly?

And you’re right about Sir Barriston. He was sad for many things. First of all he got his ass handed over to him by some boy who’s not a true warrior (Rhagan) and that started this whole mess. Even before that, the finest moment of Sir Barriston’s life was saving the mad king’s life against all odds. How many thousands died for that? If Barriston had done nothing, Rhagan would be the king and he’d be a good one. There’s no coming back from that one.

3. According to the text, Ser Dayne would have killed Ned if not for Reed. So, we assume Reed killed him. That’s not a surprise because Reed is not exactly “ordinary”. Also these unorthodox methods can bring a Knight down (Ser Barriston’s observations on Dotharaki weapons). It’s more logical to assume that Reed used a net to gain the upper hand.

And to those who think it’s wrong to kill Dayne by stabbing on the back (as per last episode) – Dayne stood between a brother and a sister for no apparent reason and wanted to kill the brother. What kind of a knight would kill a brother to prevent him seeing his own sister?

He deserved to be killed. Also, he was well protected under the mail and was wearing the full suit. Attacking from behind makes sense and is justified.

 

[Alucard_SxE]

And “Why?” is a very important question. If it’s a person they’re protecting, it can’t be Lyanna because obviously her own brother is not here to kill her. Did the prince say “Don’t worry about me. Just stay here and kill whoever coming looking for her, even her own brother”? Does that even make sense? Clearly, these guys are not guarding Lyanna.

So, what the #&*# are these guys protecting? If I’m a member of Ned’s team, I’d like to know WHY I’m risking my neck before locking swords with Ser Dayne.

Ok. I'll just paste the conversation that was occurred there as written in the books.


“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.

“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.

“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.

“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”

“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”

“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”

“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.

“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”

“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.

“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”

“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.

“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”

Or you can check it out here. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Raid_on_the_Tower_of_Joy

The kingsguard is the most highest position a knight could achieve in westeros. And the oath that the kingsguard takes is much more higher than another.
They are sworn to protect their king and the royal family with their own lives, to obey his commands, and to keep his secrets. They are sworn for life and are forbidden from owning land, taking a wife, or fathering children, although they can have non-hereditary commands, such as being warden or Hand of the King.
They did not disobey. Doesn't matter the situation or whether they were blocking a reuinion of brother & sister. And eddard highly respects that.
And to their eyes Eddard & co is the enemy. There are the ones who partnered with the usurper. And the kingsguards loyalty stays with the king. Until they die

According to the text, Ser Dayne would have killed Ned if not for Reed

This is not stated anywhere as I remember. Only mentioned as a bloody battle and that howland reed & ned survived. Although in the first book Eddard dreams some events of the battle as I remember. Gotta look into that.
And the fight was seven against three

You don’t get to play this card in the TV show. Jamie already went through that (This is a plus point to the show). You take an oath when you become a Knight. Your duties as a kingsguard DOES NOT free you from that oath. So when the mad king orders to kill thousands on innocents, Jamie kills the guy and the king who’s responsible. He breaks one oath to protect another. Then he keeps the whole matter a secret to protect another oath (in the text, he kills everyone responsible one at a time).

Jaime killed aryes because he was going to burn everyone alive using wildfire with the help of rossart.
And even then he was wrong to do so. He swore an oath to protect the king. The killed the same king later on.
Moralities doesn't count here. It's the same as being in an army. soldiers opinions, morals doesn't matter that much. That's why eddard despises him and tells Robert to at least stip him of the white cloak and send him to the wall.
He could've at least hold aryes and not kill him to be held at trial.

But of course this's a wonderful thing in the story. People may look into the characters in different ways. And I justify Sir Arthur & Hightower's actions and not Jaime killing the king.

In the later books GRRM writes POV chapetrs of Jaime. During these events we feel that he's changed and that he regrets some of his actions back then.


“That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead. ”
– Jaime's thoughts on himself

“I have made kings and unmade them. Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.”
- Jaime to Brienne of Tarth

“Make a habit of it, Lannister, and one day men might call you Goldenhand after all. Goldenhand the Just.”
- thoughts of Jaime after hanging outlaws

 

[awjas2621]

bump

 

[Satan_at_Hell]

bumpiyoo

 

[yasas bandara]

Ok. I'll just paste the conversation that was occurred there as written in the books.

1. About what happen in the text (this is a dream Ned’s having. Details may not be complete.) – In the beginning, Ser Dayne had a sad smile on his lips. The conversation that follows is mature and intelligent. Not a single drop of hatred or contempt displayed. Ned recalls a series of events where he hints the options they have (the options others took). First one is to bend the knee. Dayne says theirs don’t bend easily. The second option is to walk away (or run away). Others say it won’t do. They don’t flee. So the only option left is to kill each other. Finally there’s sadness in Ned’s voice when he says “Now it ends”.

Each respects the other and accepts his own role and that of the other. They know why they have to kill each other (“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold) and it has nothing to do with whatever they’re hiding (the same thing will happen to anyone loyal to Robert crossing paths with those three Knights).

The conversation we saw in the last episode was nothing like this. It was immature and hatred/contempt was clearly displayed. This is not something we expect from these characters.


2. About Honor vs. Morality – this is a central theme of the story.

Book : - Jaime reached for the flagon to refill his cup. "So many vows...they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other.”

TV Series – “Tell me, if your precious Renly commanded you to kill your own father and stand by while thousands of men, women, and children burned alive, would you have done it? Would you have kept your oath then?”

You have provided an answer to the above question. According to you, a kingsguard is a mindless killing machine without morals. If he were a Knight before he joined, his kingsguard oaths will replace the original oaths he took. If the king says “kill the innocent”, you have to do so because your initial oaths don’t mean s#it now. Is this really your opinion?

3. Howland Reed's role in Dayne's death - In a memory of his father, Bran Stark recalls his father Eddard describing Arthur as the finest knight he ever saw, and elaborates further that Arthur would have killed him if not for Howland Reed.(A Clash of Kings, Chapter 21, Bran III.)

So, another failure here. In the TV series Ned, the embodiment of honour, is a liar who says (or let others believe) that he defeated Ser Dayne.

As I said before, the series has a reputation for ruining good characters.

 

[dath kimbula]

යසස් සහ ඇලුකාර්ඩ් වැනි සහෝදරයන් වෙනම ත්‍රෙඩ් එකක් දාල පටන් ගත්තොත් මොකද අවසානය ගැන ප්‍රෙඩික්ෂන්ස්? (ඔව් ඔව් අර සොන්නළු හැන්කොකාව ස්පොයිල් කොරන්නත් එක්ක තමා!)

හැබැයි දෙයියං ගේ නාමෙට හිංගලෙන් කොටපල්ලා කුකුළණි, බහු ජන හිතාය බහුජන සුඛාය කියලා......

 

[billythekid]

යසස් සහ ඇලුකාර්ඩ් වැනි සහෝදරයන් වෙනම ත්‍රෙඩ් එකක් දාල පටන් ගත්තොත් මොකද අවසානය ගැන ප්‍රෙඩික්ෂන්ස්? (ඔව් ඔව් අර සොන්නළු හැන්කොකාව ස්පොයිල් කොරන්නත් එක්ක තමා!)

හැබැයි දෙයියං ගේ නාමෙට හිංගලෙන් කොටපල්ලා කුකුළණි, බහු ජන හිතාය බහුජන සුඛාය කියලා......

 

[sdlrs6]

යසස් සහ ඇලුකාර්ඩ් වැනි සහෝදරයන් වෙනම ත්‍රෙඩ් එකක් දාල පටන් ගත්තොත් මොකද අවසානය ගැන ප්‍රෙඩික්ෂන්ස්? (ඔව් ඔව් අර සොන්නළු හැන්කොකාව ස්පොයිල් කොරන්නත් එක්ක තමා!)

හැබැයි දෙයියං ගේ නාමෙට හිංගලෙන් කොටපල්ලා කුකුළණි, බහු ජන හිතාය බහුජන සුඛාය කියලා......

matanam kiyawannath kammal aiya ehema ketuwahama
onna oya wage sihnhlaenma kiwanam ahannath asai

 

[Thoppi_Chaminda]

යසස් සහ ඇලුකාර්ඩ් වැනි සහෝදරයන් වෙනම ත්‍රෙඩ් එකක් දාල පටන් ගත්තොත් මොකද අවසානය ගැන ප්‍රෙඩික්ෂන්ස්? (ඔව් ඔව් අර සොන්නළු හැන්කොකාව ස්පොයිල් කොරන්නත් එක්ක තමා!)

හැබැයි දෙයියං ගේ නාමෙට හිංගලෙන් කොටපල්ලා කුකුළණි, බහු ජන හිතාය බහුජන සුඛාය කියලා......

මටත් සිංහල එච්චර තේරෙන්නේ නැ
එත් මේ කතාව එන්ග්රිසියෙන්ම පැහැදිලි කරන එක හොදයි කියල හිත්ටෙන්නේ.
සමහර දේවල් සිංහලෙන් කියනවට වැඩ එන්ග්රිසියෙන්ම කියන එක ලස්සනයි.
අමාරුවෙන් හරි ඩික්ෂනරි බල බල කියවනකොට කතාව ගැන ලස්සන චිත්තයක් හිතේ ගොඩනැගෙනවා

 

[Alucard_SxE]

The conversation we saw in the last episode was nothing like this. It was immature and hatred/contempt was clearly displayed. This is not something we expect from these characters.

I can't argue with you here since I don't watch the show. I can't argue against or correct the facts of the show cause of the above reason but I'll answer about what you've stated of the books

2. About Honor vs. Morality – this is a central theme of the story.

Book : - Jaime reached for the flagon to refill his cup. "So many vows...they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other.”

This is from the second book "A Clash of Kings" Throughout the story, Jaime becomes much more different than the person who says this particular quote. Specially he becomes a much more humbler person when he's helpless with a sword since losing his sword hand & also after becoming the commander of the kingsguard. What I've quoted in the previous post is after the quote you posted. Specially in "A feast of Crows & A Dance with Dragons".
Since this turning of Jaime, I think he'll play a much bigger role in the upcoming books. Specially because he thinks much more vividly now. He's not the person said the same words you quoted. (But they are right)

You have provided an answer to the above question. According to you, a kingsguard is a mindless killing machine without morals. If he were a Knight before he joined, his kingsguard oaths will replace the original oaths he took. If the king says “kill the innocent”, you have to do so because your initial oaths don’t mean s#it now. Is this really your opinion?

I didn't say that. What I'm saying is protecting the king & obeying the kings word does come above anything else. At least most of the time. There have been historical incidents in westeros before, where we see the kingsguard fighting against each other and similar events where they betray their oaths. I'll mention those events in my thread.
But the honour is what counts here.
AND AS I'VE STATED AS BEFORE, EDDARD IS AN ENEMY TO THEM. IN THE TOWER OF JOY. EDDARD IS WITH THE USURPER WHICH MAKES HIM AN ENEMY. THE KINGSGUARD CANNOT CHOOSE A SIDE BECAUSE THEIR OATH BOUND THEM TO THE KINGS SIDE. AT LEAST THAT'S WHERE THE HONOR OF THAT KNIGHT COUNTS.
People like roose bolton, Walder Frey are the reason why starks got weakened to the brink of extinction. Because their words didn't mean shit. What if that's the case with the kingsguard too. A kingsguard which even the king can't trust? There is no point right? The honour counts a lot.

Whatever the reason they guarded the tower and by whose order (there's no mention about who gives the order. It should be Rhaegar I think. Asking his father to appoint them to the task) they obeyed it till their deaths because they are bound by honor. And Eddard was the enemy to them.

3. Howland Reed's role in Dayne's death - In a memory of his father, Bran Stark recalls his father Eddard describing Arthur as the finest knight he ever saw, and elaborates further that Arthur would have killed him if not for Howland Reed.(A Clash of Kings, Chapter 21, Bran III.)

I read that specific part right now to be sure Yeah it is stated by not stated that Reed backstabbed him or anything. But maybe guarded or deflected a blow. No point in arguing about this since the event is not totally clear in the books

As I said before, the series has a reputation for ruining good characters.

Maybe so. I don't defend the TV show.

 

[Alucard_SxE]

යසස් සහ ඇලුකාර්ඩ් වැනි සහෝදරයන් වෙනම ත්‍රෙඩ් එකක් දාල පටන් ගත්තොත් මොකද අවසානය ගැන ප්‍රෙඩික්ෂන්ස්? (ඔව් ඔව් අර සොන්නළු හැන්කොකාව ස්පොයිල් කොරන්නත් එක්ක තමා!)

හැබැයි දෙයියං ගේ නාමෙට හිංගලෙන් කොටපල්ලා කුකුළණි, බහු ජන හිතාය බහුජන සුඛාය කියලා......

Sinhalen kotanna sinhala unicode bawithaye nomatha
Obathumama thread ekak patan ganna. Mama ekata dayaka wennam. Man mage anith thread eka digatama update karanawa. Thawa ekak balagannanam be. Ethakota dawasama meke wage thama

 

[yasas bandara]

I didn't say that. What I'm saying is protecting the king & obeying the kings word does come above anything else. At least most of the time. There have been historical incidents in westeros before, where we see the kingsguard fighting against each other and similar events where they betray their oaths. I'll mention those events in my thread.
But the honour is what counts here.

Isn’t it important to draw a line between honour and blind loyalty? For an example, take Gerold Hightower-

“As for Lord Rickard, the steel of his breastplate turned cherry-red before the end, and his gold melted off his spurs and dripped down into the fire. I stood at the foot of the Iron Throne in my white armor and white cloak, filling my head with thoughts of Cersei. After, Gerold Hightower himself took me aside and said to me, ‘You swore a vow to guard the king, not to judge him.’ That was the White Bull, loyal to the
end and a better man than me, all agree.” (Jamie)

As you see, Hightower was so loyal that he was even against OTHERS judging the king. IMO, this is just inhuman. If he had said “OK, he’s a monster but we still swore to guard him” I’d say he had some humanity left in him. This wasn’t the case.

Someone like that has the capacity to sit his ass down and watch as pyromancers burn down a city full of innocent men, women and children (forgetting that he’d ever have sworn an oath to protect them) just because a king said so. Jamie wasn’t like that. He remembered the oaths he took and saved all those lives.

He also knew that he had to protect the king’s secrets and therefore killed all the pyromancers.

Also remember that Rhaegan did not trust Ser Barristan with his task (this is important because it’s clearly mentioned by the latter). This is probably because Barristan wasn’t that kind of a person (he even wonders if he’d done the right thing by saving the mad king). Barristan would give his life for the king in a heartbeat but he wasn’t blind loyal.

I have no problem with what you said about Ned being an enemy. That’s clear enough.

What if that's the case with the kingsguard too. A kingsguard which even the king can't trust? There is no point right? The honour counts a lot.

Now here’s something I can’t agree. Jamie wasn’t a kingsguard Mad King could trust (so he kept him close) and what happened? Tens of thousands of innocent lives were saved. Honour is not blind loyalty.

 

[Alucard_SxE]

Isn’t it important to draw a line between honour and blind loyalty? For an example, take Gerold Hightower-

“As for Lord Rickard, the steel of his breastplate turned cherry-red before the end, and his gold melted off his spurs and dripped down into the fire. I stood at the foot of the Iron Throne in my white armor and white cloak, filling my head with thoughts of Cersei. After, Gerold Hightower himself took me aside and said to me, ‘You swore a vow to guard the king, not to judge him.’ That was the White Bull, loyal to the
end and a better man than me, all agree.” (Jamie)

As you see, Hightower was so loyal that he was even against OTHERS judging the king. IMO, this is just inhuman. If he had said “OK, he’s a monster but we still swore to guard him” I’d say he had some humanity left in him. This wasn’t the case.

Someone like that has the capacity to sit his ass down and watch as pyromancers burn down a city full of innocent men, women and children (forgetting that he’d ever have sworn an oath to protect them) just because a king said so. Jamie wasn’t like that. He remembered the oaths he took and saved all those lives.

He also knew that he had to protect the king’s secrets and therefore killed all the pyromancers.

If you think that Jaime had a concious at that time, then you are wrong. Actually the only thing he cared about that time is Cersei. He didn't want to be knighted. He didn't want to be in the kingsguard. He didn't want to stay in Kings Landing. All he wanted was Cersei. And he was pretty stupid & wasn't a thinker. I'll get to this a bit later.
Sir Gerold clearly knows what's right and wrong. He thinks he understand what Jaime is thinking (Judging the actions of Aryes burning Rickard) so it makes clear that he has those thoughts too. But he don't fall into those those.Because he Can't. Because for the simple matter of the vow & oath.
Westeros wasn't a democracy. A king is anointed and he rules. And if the king is deemed unworthy of that post, then atleast the king should realise it and step down or he should be deemed unworthy and forcefully taken off his position by force. And in a period like that honour and loyalty is something much more important.
And the Vows these people take, doesn't only define them by their houses, and their sons & daughters and generations to come. The honour and the name of that house lies within the honour they take. Sir Gerold does feel these things. He does see the consequences. But the vow that binds himself and his acts to hold those vows defines him. He simply cannot turn against the king. It's not their right. When he took the oath to become a member of the Kingsguard he knew what he was getting into. He knew of the choices and decisions that he will have to make in the future.

But Jaimewasn't like this. He simply,during that time does not care about anything other than Cersei. Even in the quote you quoted, it is said that he was thinking of Cersei.

Jamie wasn’t like that. He remembered the oaths he took and saved all those lives.

Now here’s something I can’t agree. Jamie wasn’t a kingsguard Mad King could trust (so he kept him close) and what happened? Tens of thousands of innocent lives were saved. Honour is not blind loyalty.

Nope this isn't true. He simply doesn't care what happens to others. The only thought on his mind is about Cersei. He might have seen the disaster Areys was going to cause. But don't tell me that he killed aryes because of his oaths.
He was a person who never took anything seriously including his oaths. It's not his kind heart that led him to killing aryes. He was simply fed up with everything.
But then, from the Feast OF Crows, a new man is born. A man who is becoming intelligent, a thinker. Now if this NEW JAIME was to be in Aryes' kingsguard and killed him, then I'd side with you. But the Jaime back then was no man like that.

 

[ruwantheekshana]

May be Arryns along with Starks will fight Boltons

 

[Ridila™]

Tower of Joy seen එකෙන් වහලා කියන දෙයක් තියෙනවා. Battle of Trident එකේදි Rhaegar Targaryen එක්ක සටන් කරන්න ඔහුගේ හොඳම යහලුවා, ඒ වගේම sword of the morning කියලා හදුන්වපු නෙඩ් දැකලා තියෙනවා කියපු හොඳම කඩු සටන් කරුවා ඉන්නේ නැතිව Rhaegar පැහැරගෙන ඇවිත් rape කරා කියපු Lyanna Stark ව හිරකරලා තිබ්බා තියපු Tower of Joy මුර කරන්න තිබ්බේ ඇයි කියන එක. Lyanna Stark ව එහෙනම් ඌට වැඩක් නැතිවෙන්න තිබ්බනේ. නමුත් මට හිතුනු දේ නම් Rhaegar Targaryen පැහැර ගැනීමක් රේප් කිරීමකට ඔබ්බෙන් ගිය සමහර විට Lyanna Stark කැමැත්තෙන් Rhaegar එක්ක පැනලා ආවද කියන සැකය සහ රහසේ ඔවුන් දෙන්නා විවාහ උනාද කියන එක.

තමුන්ගේ හිටපු හොඳට සටන් කරුවා එතන රඳවන්න හේතුව හැටියට මම දකින්නේ ඒ වෙද්දි Lyanna ට ළමයෙක් හම්බුවෙන්න තියෙන වග Rhaegar දැන සිටියා සහ Elia Martel සහ දරුවා ඝාතනය උනා කියලා දැනගත්තට පස්සේ තමුන්ගෙන් පස්සේ Iron Throne එකේ උරුමක්කාරයා Lyanna ට හම්බුවෙන්න හිටපු ළමයා කියලා Rhaegar විශ්වාස කල නිසා වෙන්න පුලුවන්.අනික පරණ එපිසෝඩ් එකකම කියනවා Ser Barristan Selmy; Rhaegar ප්‍රචණ්ඩත්වයට කැමති කෙනෙක් නෙමෙයි කියන එක. Melisandre ජොන් ස්නෝ ආයේ ආවම කියනවා The Loard let you come back for a reason කියලා. ඔතන නොකියා කියන දෙය ගොඩක් වෙලාවට Iron Throne එකේ නියම උරුමක්කාරයා වෙන්නේ Rhaegar Targaryen ගේ පුතා Jon Targaryen කියන එක වෙන්න පුලුවන්.

 

[Ridila™]

ඒක නෙමෙයි Robert's Rebellion එක වෙනම TV Series එකක් හැටියට දකින්න ආසාවෙන් ඉන්නේ මම විතරද කියපන්කෝ බලන්න.