ශුන්‍යතා දහම

ek_rosh

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    But I think there’s a more fundamental issue at play here රෝෂ් අයියෙ. If two people are trying to compete in a sport, they at least need to be playing the same one. In our case, you’re playing soccer and I’m playing cricket. I’m trying to hit a soccer ball with a bat, and you’re trying to kick a cricket ball. On top of that, I’m not interested in learning soccer and you’re not interested in learning cricket.
    So, the only way I can meaningfully engage is by trying to find common ground, and for me, that meant comparing your style of play. But that’s not really a fair or accurate way to compete. So yes, we certainly are in different wavelengths and let’s leave it at that. :-)

    there aint two different games in this dhamma story. it is one game, one path and one destination. the only variation is the style of play and that is perfectly ok.

    the problem comes when two styles start producing two different paths... thats when things need closer attention. If your style contradicts mine (and mine contradicts yours), we shouldnt just shrug it off as if we are playing two separate games, because we are not... it is the same game, the same dhamma, and there shouldnt be contradictions.

    And just for the record, disappointment is a form of hurt, in its own way.:P

    bro, keep the focus on the main topic. anyways, sure, let me break it and put this way to make it easier to understand

    I wasnt hurt by the ego claims you projected onto me (so no need to apologize). i was disappointed (yes, a kind of hurt), because from my understanding you are holding onto some things that aint accurate, and I couldnt show it to you. Im sure that if your real intention was to show me the correct dhamma (i hope it is), you would feel the same in my position.

    What do you mean? If we put the religious angle aside, there were causes behind those fabrications, and they did happen << this is a fact. You can’t say the stories weren’t there, because I genuinely observed them and they were real to me. So, the question of “what’s the issue here” still stands IMHO. I’m not trying to pull your leg or anything, but these are the facts as they did happen.

    ok, just go to the first claim - ඔයා ඔය අභිධර්මයක් අල්ලගෙන maintain කරන්නෙ ලොකු ego එකක්.

    from what i wrote, which one (observation) says that?
     

    nuwan9999

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    there aint two different games in this dhamma story. it is one game, one path and one destination. the only variation is the style of play and that is perfectly ok.

    the problem comes when two styles start producing two different paths... thats when things need closer attention. If your style contradicts mine (and mine contradicts yours), we shouldnt just shrug it off as if we are playing two separate games, because we are not... it is the same game, the same dhamma, and there shouldnt be contradictions.



    bro, keep the focus on the main topic. anyways, sure, let me break it and put this way to make it easier to understand

    I wasnt hurt by the ego claims you projected onto me (so no need to apologize). i was disappointed (yes, a kind of hurt), because from my understanding you are holding onto some things that aint accurate, and I couldnt show it to you. Im sure that if your real intention was to show me the correct dhamma (i hope it is), you would feel the same in my position.
    Okay let's move on then රෝෂ් අයියෙ :)

    ok, just go to the first claim - ඔයා ඔය අභිධර්මයක් අල්ලගෙන maintain කරන්නෙ ලොකු ego එකක්.

    from what i wrote, which one (observation) says that?
    When I say “ඔයා ඔය අභිධර්මයක් අල්ලගෙන maintain කරන්නෙ ලොකු ego එකක්”, this is my perception of you based on my experience with you. i.e. I have seen you refer to Abhidhamma wherever possible to prove your point (which is perfectly ok). As I said earlier, accuracy of the statement is highly subjective, I am not trying to prove accuracy of it here.

    What I am trying to do is what you asked me to do earlier to monitor my mind, I checked what my mind really observes and I see that I made perception about you, and as you would expect this is perfectly normal for the mind to function this way. So, what I am asking again is “What is the issue here?”

    @Blair Solari malli, like to get your view as well if I may.
    ------ Post added on Jul 21, 2026 at 7:23 AM
     

    Blair Solari

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    @Blair Solari malli, like to get your view as well if I may.

    රෝස් මහත්තයා කියන්නේ ඔප්ටිමම් විදිහ, imho.

    කලින් කිව්වා වගේ එකම පාත් එක අපි ප්ලේ කරන විදිහ වෙනස්.

    මන් පෞද්ගලිකව ආස sensual heaven ටිකේ ගිහින්, අකනිටා වල කල්ප 16 000 ඉදලා පිරිනිවෙන්න. මන් ඒ නිසා දැහැන් පැත්තට දැන්ම යන්න කැමති නැහැ. (මොකද මට හිතෙනවා ඒ පැත්තෙන් ගියොත් ආයේ කාම ලෝකෙට එන්න බැරි වෙයි කියලා)

    එකම පාත් එකේනම් ඉන්නේ, කොහොම ප්ලේ කරත් අවුලක් නැහැ, imho.
     
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    nuwan9999

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    රෝස් මහත්තයා කියන්නේ ඔප්ටිමම් විදිහ, imho.

    කලින් කිව්වා වගේ එකම පාත් එක අපි ප්ලේ කරන විදිහ වෙනස්.
    උඹත් දැන් මහත්තය කියන්න පටන් ගත්තද අංකල්, අංකල් කිය කිය ඉඳල?:ROFLMAO: ඒක too optimum 😁

    ධර්මය ගැන නෙමෙයි බං අහුවෙ, අර උඩ statement එක ගැන.
    මන් පෞද්ගලිකව ආස sensual heaven ටිකේ ගිහින්, අකනිටා වල කල්ප 16 000 ඉදලා පිරිනිවෙන්න. මන් ඒ නිසා දැහැන් පැත්තට දැන්ම යන්න කැමති නැහැ. (මොකද මට හිතෙනවා ඒ පැත්තෙන් ගියොත් ආයේ කාම ලෝකෙට එන්න බැරි වෙයි කියලා)

    එකම පාත් එකේනම් ඉන්නේ, කොහොම ප්ලේ කරත් අවුලක් නැහැ, imho.
    (y)
     

    Blair Solari

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    උඹත් දැන් මහත්තය කියන්න පටන් ගත්තද අංකල්, අංකල් කිය කිය ඉඳල?:ROFLMAO: ඒක too optimum 😁

    mature විදිහට හැසිරෙන්න ඕනේ දැන් වැඩිහිටියෙක් :P

    ධර්මය ගැන නෙමෙයි බං අහුවෙ, අර උඩ statement එක ගැන.

    කෝ, මොකක්ද?

    “What is the issue here?”

    ඉසූ එකක් එනවනම් එන්න පුලුවන් වැරදි දෘෂ්ටිය නිසා, imho.
    ------ Post added on Jul 21, 2026 at 12:18 PM
     
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    ek_rosh

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    When I say “ඔයා ඔය අභිධර්මයක් අල්ලගෙන maintain කරන්නෙ ලොකු ego එකක්”, this is my perception of you based on my experience with you. i.e. I have seen you refer to Abhidhamma wherever possible to prove your point (which is perfectly ok). As I said earlier, accuracy of the statement is highly subjective, I am not trying to prove accuracy of it here.

    how does "using ahidamma whenever possible to prove your point" translate to "maintaining a big ego holding on to abhidamma" ?
    what is the base behind it?

    What I am trying to do is what you asked me to do earlier to monitor my mind, I checked what my mind really observes and I see that I made perception about you, and as you would expect this is perfectly normal for the mind to function this way. So, what I am asking again is “What is the issue here?”


    bro, there are bunch of issues.. you think by yourself.
    I dont want to point them, coz that will be about your mind and I dont want you to be upset me pointing out them this and that. Just let it go.
     

    nuwan9999

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    how does "using ahidamma whenever possible to prove your point" translate to "maintaining a big ego holding on to abhidamma" ?
    what is the base behind it?
    See this is the beauty of perception, the base you are asking is also subjective. My base is the fact that you use abhidamma whenever you can and I think it’s a pretty good base. Its good enough for me 🤷‍♂️
    bro, there are bunch of issues.. you think by yourself.
    I dont want to point them, coz that will be about your mind and I dont want you to be upset me pointing out them this and that. Just let it go.
    I am still trying to think these issues you are referring to and I can’t find any, I’d be grateful if you show me at least one. As I said earlier, I have no issue in someone showing me the issues, it’s a good way to learn right? So, please point them for me, I am over 100% sure that I won’t get upset.

    You asked me to look in to my mind about issue in fabricating things about you and now It’s not fair to say “let it go”, agree?
     

    ek_rosh

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    See this is the beauty of perception, the base you are asking is also subjective. My base is the fact that you use abhidamma whenever you can and I think it’s a pretty good base. Its good enough for me 🤷‍♂️

    thats not what i asked.

    your observation - rosh uses abhidhamma whenever possible
    perception - rosh maintains ego over abhidamma..

    im asking what the base (not the observation) of your mind is transforming you observation into this particular perception. {why not perceived as rosh is trying to help me)?

    I am still trying to think these issues you are referring to and I can’t find any, I’d be grateful if you show me at least one. As I said earlier, I have no issue in someone showing me the issues, it’s a good way to learn right? So, please point them for me, I am over 100% sure that I won’t get upset.

    You asked me to look in to my mind about issue in fabricating things about you and now It’s not fair to say “let it go”, agree?

    yes, i ask YOU to look into your mind. anyways, sure ahead and answer the above thing and we can start from that to issues (ofc, according to my understanding)
     
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    nipund

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    It's hard to see our own ego which is a view, let alone others.
    Simply because thoughts arise from දෘෂ්ටි, from all දෘෂ්ටි unless base of " all දෘෂ්ඨි " is broken or shaken,සක්කාය දෘෂ්ටි will survive.

    අපිට තේරෙන ego එක නෙමේ ego එකේ limit එක. අපිට තේරෙන ego එක එකේ පැටියෙක්.
     

    nuwan9999

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    thats not what i asked.

    your observation - rosh uses abhidhamma whenever possible
    perception - rosh maintains ego over abhidamma..

    im asking what the base (not the observation) of your mind is transforming you observation into this particular perception. {why not perceived as rosh is trying to help me)?
    Got it,
    That entirely based on my view and knowledge about you, I still have enough information to maintain that perception. Also, my perception that “Rosh maintains a huge ego over abhidamma” has nothing to do with my other perceptions about you. Knowing that you close to region one way or another (this is another view and bunch of information), I also perceive that in your mind you are trying to help me. So, now what? I still don’t see any issue as these perceptions are true to me.

    yes, i ask YOU to look into your mind. anyways, sure ahead and answer the above thing and we can start from that to issues (ofc, according to my understanding)
    Done and I am still looking to find a issue in MY mind.

    It's hard to see our own ego which is a view, let alone others.
    Simply because thoughts arise from දෘෂ්ටි, from all දෘෂ්ටි unless base of " all දෘෂ්ඨි " is broken or shaken,සක්කාය දෘෂ්ටි will survive.

    අපිට තේරෙන ego එක නෙමේ ego එකේ limit එක. අපිට තේරෙන ego එක එකේ පැටියෙක්.
    Exactly, but my question is why do you see this as a problem (if you see it as one)? This is the nature of how mind works. Right? If the causes are there effects will appear (but let's try to address this outside of religious view)
    ------ Post added on Jul 22, 2026 at 8:22 AM
     

    ewijesekara

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    Back Bay-Beacon Hill, Boston
    bro,

    it is honestly amazing how you turned this whole thing into some personal breakdown of me. I ddint ask or say a single thing about your attitude, your practice or your understanding, yet you kept shifting everything toward my mindset, attitude, and behavior. every question I asked was direct, genuine, and on topic. It is disappointing it eventually went this way, but whatever, clearly we are not on the same wavelength. thanks though!! 🙏
    a0cbd302b0c76b5d51e5868fa5db3683.gif
     
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    ek_rosh

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    Got it,
    That entirely based on my view and knowledge about you, I still have enough information to maintain that perception. Also, my perception that “Rosh maintains a huge ego over abhidamma” has nothing to do with my other perceptions about you. Knowing that you close to region one way or another (this is another view and bunch of information), I also perceive that in your mind you are trying to help me. So, now what? I still don’t see any issue as these perceptions are true to me.


    Done and I am still looking to find a issue in MY mind.

    ok, well this is just my understanding and I may be wrong. (btw i mean no disrespect or judgment toward anyone in this)

    first of all, i dont think you can actually detect someones ego just by reading their posts. so why does mind interpret as - "he is maintaining ego over abhidamma"?

    from my understanding(experience+reading), when we think we are "seeing ego" we are not directly seeing their ego, but we are seeing our own minds interpretation (own ego), specially if we personally assign value to the same thing.

    It is like imagining how we would behave if we had that same skill, status, knowledge, achievement or whateve, and then assuming they are behaving for the same reasons. (not sure if you get what im saying)

    think of someone with a V8 revs loudly infront of your house. 3 things can happen (simply)

    1.

    -you highly value cars, you see a V8 as rare, high status and difficult to obtain..bla bla bla
    - because of that, you imagine how YOU would feel if you owned one. maybe you would show it off.
    (as how you valued my abhidamma knowledge -
    ඔය දැනුම හොඳයි ඉතිං වාද විවාද කරන්න
    group discussion එකකදි එහෙම කැපිල පේන්න
    පිළිගැනීම හදාගන්න එහෙම

    you imagine these you can do these with it, and you assume im doing what you imagine.

    - so your mind concludes that he is doing the same thing - "he is showing off."
    - you feel challenged/inferior, and you conclude that he has an ego and trying to beat me.
    - it is like "wow, this guy has a great car!!, this guy must be showing off with v8 revs becuase he is maintaining ego"


    2.

    - imagine you already own several bugattis.
    - you still recognize the V8 as somewhat valuable, but you are no longer intimidated by it.
    - instead of thinking, "He is showing off" you might think, "what the hell is wrong with this guy making so much noise with such a small car"
    - action is exactly the same, but your interpretation changes, because your relationship to that value has changed.

    3.

    - now imagine you dont care about cars at all
    - this car has no special value to you
    - theres no comparison.
    - no ego is detected, It is just noise.
    - its like "why is this guy making so much noise? Im trying to sleep."


    so from what i see, what you see as my ego may actually reflect how your own ego would be if you were in my situation.

    again, this isnt a blame. that is simply how the mind operates. different people can interpret the exact same behavior differently depending on their values, experiences, and mental conditioning. thats normal (is it good, or bad, i dont know)

    the issue begins after, when mind mistakes that interpretation for reality. mind take what our own mind has constructed through our own ego and assume it accurately describes the other person. then go a step further and project that conclusion onto them as if it were a fact!!!

    whether you let the thought run or examine it the moment it appears before taking it as a fact is completely personal. it depends on how much value you place on your own thoughts, how much you care about others perspectives and what your standards are around ethics and morality.

    ps.
    wrote this while working :P so there may be mistakes

    dont take it as something aimed at you personally. this isnt about blaming or pointing fingers or STRICTLY about yourself. It is just a general analysis that anyone can reflect on, which can be used (hope) to improve ourselves while on our dhamma path.
     
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    nuwan9999

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    ok, well this is just my understanding and I may be wrong. (btw i mean no disrespect or judgment toward anyone in this)
    This is exactly what I want “your understanding” and this specific conversation is not about you may be right or wrong – as that is subjective. Also, you are free to judge and mean disrespect if necessary. The reality is that even if you say you didn’t mean it (because you are a good person), it happens even momentarily, and this is perfectly normal.

    first of all, i dont think you can actually detect someones ego just by reading their posts. so why does mind interpret as - "he is maintaining ego over abhidamma"?

    from my understanding(experience+reading), when we think we are "seeing ego" we are not directly seeing their ego, but we are seeing our own minds interpretation (own ego), specially if we personally assign value to the same thing.

    It is like imagining how we would behave if we had that same skill, status, knowledge, achievement or whateve, and then assuming they are behaving for the same reasons. (not sure if you get what im saying)


    This is simply how the mind normally operates. It’s doing its usual job, and this kind of pattern is part of its standard functioning. Detecting ego is a mental process, and you can’t apply strict guidelines to it because it’s highly subjective. One person might sense it just by reading a few forum posts, while another might need a detailed evaluation. That doesn’t make Person 1’s observation invalid - in many cases, no one can definitively say either way. These are all perceptions, and the mind needs some form of perception to maintain a coherent sense of reality. I’m sure you agree with that.

    So I’m still not sure why you see this as an “issue.” To me, this seems completely normal.

    think of someone with a V8 revs loudly infront of your house. 3 things can happen (simply)

    1.

    -you highly value cars, you see a V8 as rare, high status and difficult to obtain..bla bla bla
    - because of that, you imagine how YOU would feel if you owned one. maybe you would show it off.
    (as how you valued my abhidamma knowledge -
    ඔය දැනුම හොඳයි ඉතිං වාද විවාද කරන්න
    group discussion එකකදි එහෙම කැපිල පේන්න
    පිළිගැනීම හදාගන්න එහෙම

    you imagine these you can do these with it, and you assume im doing what you imagine.

    - so your mind concludes that he is doing the same thing - "he is showing off."
    - you feel challenged/inferior, and you conclude that he has an ego and trying to beat me.
    - it is like "wow, this guy has a great car!!, this guy must be showing off with v8 revs becuase he is maintaining ego"


    2.

    - imagine you already own several bugattis.
    - you still recognize the V8 as somewhat valuable, but you are no longer intimidated by it.
    - instead of thinking, "He is showing off" you might think, "what the hell is wrong with this guy making so much noise with such a small car"
    - action is exactly the same, but your interpretation changes, because your relationship to that value has changed.

    3.

    - now imagine you dont care about cars at all
    - this car has no special value to you
    - theres no comparison.
    - no ego is detected, It is just noise.
    - its like "why is this guy making so much noise? Im trying to sleep."


    so from what i see, what you see as my ego may actually reflect how your own ego would be if you were in my situation.

    again, this isnt a blame. that is simply how the mind operates. different people can interpret the exact same behavior differently depending on their values, experiences, and mental conditioning. thats normal (is it good, or bad, i dont know)

    the issue begins after, when mind mistakes that interpretation for reality. mind take what our own mind has constructed through our own ego and assume it accurately describes the other person. then go a step further and project that conclusion onto them as if it were a fact!!!

    whether you let the thought run or examine it the moment it appears before taking it as a fact is completely personal. it depends on how much value you place on your own thoughts, how much you care about others perspectives and what your standards are around ethics and morality.
    Regarding points 1, 2, and 3 - yes, you’re absolutely right. What you described was very much me in the past, and to some extent still is (though not nearly to the same degree). I agree with everything you’ve said here. What you’re describing is simply how the mind normally operates, and even in your own explanation you acknowledge that this pattern is normal. That’s why your statement: “the mind takes what our own mind has constructed through our own ego and assumes it accurately describes the other person, then goes a step further and projects that conclusion onto them as if it were a fact” reads to me as a description of a perfectly normal mental function.

    So my question remains: why do you view this as a problem? Are you saying it’s an issue purely from a standards, ethics, or morality standpoint? If so, that’s highly subjective, and that’s not the angle I’m talking about. If you see any other kind of issue beyond that, I’d genuinely like to hear it.
    ps.
    wrote this while working :P so there may be mistakes

    dont take it as something aimed at you personally. this isnt about blaming or pointing fingers or STRICTLY about yourself. It is just a general analysis that anyone can reflect on, which can be used (hope) to improve ourselves while on our dhamma path.

    No issue at all රෝෂ් අයියෙ, I am doing the same and thank you for the reply. I am happy to take any advice, not for a moment think that I will get offended. Also, let's keep this away from dhamma (for now) ;)
     
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    ek_rosh

    Well-known member
  • May 9, 2014
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    This is exactly what I want “your understanding” and this specific conversation is not about you may be right or wrong – as that is subjective. Also, you are free to judge and mean disrespect if necessary. The reality is that even if you say you didn’t mean it (because you are a good person), it happens even momentarily, and this is perfectly normal.




    This is simply how the mind normally operates. It’s doing its usual job, and this kind of pattern is part of its standard functioning. Detecting ego is a mental process, and you can’t apply strict guidelines to it because it’s highly subjective. One person might sense it just by reading a few forum posts, while another might need a detailed evaluation. That doesn’t make Person 1’s observation invalid - in many cases, no one can definitively say either way. These are all perceptions, and the mind needs some form of perception to maintain a coherent sense of reality. I’m sure you agree with that.

    So I’m still not sure why you see this as an “issue.” To me, this seems completely normal.


    Regarding points 1, 2, and 3 - yes, you’re absolutely right. What you described was very much me in the past, and to some extent still is (though not nearly to the same degree). I agree with everything you’ve said here. What you’re describing is simply how the mind normally operates, and even in your own explanation you acknowledge that this pattern is normal. That’s why your statement: “the mind takes what our own mind has constructed through our own ego and assumes it accurately describes the other person, then goes a step further and projects that conclusion onto them as if it were a fact” reads to me as a description of a perfectly normal mental function.

    So my question remains: why do you view this as a problem? Are you saying it’s an issue purely from a standards, ethics, or morality standpoint? If so, that’s highly subjective, and that’s not the angle I’m talking about. If you see any other kind of issue beyond that, I’d genuinely like to hear it.


    No issue at all රෝෂ් අයියෙ, I am doing the same and thank you for the reply. I am happy to take any advice, not for a moment think that I will get offended. Also, let's keep this away from dhamma (for now) ;)

    a person is yelling at you, you think he is going to kill you. so you go ahead kill him. this keeps happening and you think this is normal...

    is there an issue here?

    @Blair Solari

    btw, i think you are the one who has been mostly intermitted by me (with abhidamma)... i had been going after you many times... how did you feel it? trying to defeat you? maintain abhidamma for ego? so something else...?

    just curious.

    btw, i personally dont care what you think abt me. (i know none of you personally) ...but if most of you guys feel im trying to defeat you or something like that i will need to tone down..otherwise you will see me instead of what i show...

    @Emios @nipund too please. i had asked many questions and replied with abhidamma) with u too a few times...

    honest answer only, please 🙏
     
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    nuwan9999

    Well-known member
  • Sep 25, 2024
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    a person is yelling at you, you think he is going to kill you. so you go ahead kill him. this keeps happening and you think this is normal...

    is there an issue here?
    As you said earlier, from a social, ethical, and standards-based perspective there is an issue. But from the standpoint of how the mind actually functions, this is completely normal and it genuinely does happen in reality. Would you agree.

    @Blair Solari

    btw, i think you are the one who has been mostly intermitted by me (with abhidamma)... i had been going after you many times... how did you feel it? trying to defeat you? maintain abhidamma for ego? so something else...?

    just curious.
    I will answer here too...
    For the sake of argument, let’s say I personally feel annoyed that you keep bringing up Abhidhamma, and that irritation makes me tell you that you have a big ego about it. Even if that were true, what does it have to do with my actual question? My question is very straightforward: I just want to understand why you think this completely normal mental function is a problem.
    btw, i personally dont care what you think abt me. (i know none of you personally) ...but if most of you guys feel im trying to defeat you or something like that i will need to tone down..otherwise you will see me instead of what i show...

    @Emios @nipund too please. i had asked many questions and replied with abhidamma) with u too a few times...

    honest answer only, please 🙏
    I know, and it’s great that you use it. People can always learn from things they’re not familiar with. And please don’t tone yourself down just because someone on the other side of the world said you have an ego about it. As you already know, my question isn’t about that anymore. :-)
     

    Emios

    Well-known member
  • Dec 10, 2009
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    me mohotheth shunyay neda:o

    btw, i personally dont care what you think abt me. (i know none of you personally) ...but if most of you guys feel im trying to defeat you or something like that i will need to tone down..otherwise you will see me instead of what i show...

    @Emios @nipund too please. i had asked many questions and replied with abhidamma) with u too a few times...

    honest answer only, please 🙏

    i think everybody try to defend their understanding, for each of us our understanding seems to be the correct reality. I don't see any reason why you should tone down or anyone at all. since we aren't even sowan it's not even a problem to make out of. when personal understanding gets violated it feels like defeating and we are helpless on that regard.I personally never had issues with you pouring abhidamma.
    ------ Post added on Jul 23, 2026 at 1:25 PM
     

    ek_rosh

    Well-known member
  • May 9, 2014
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    me mohotheth shunyay neda:o



    i think everybody try to defend their understanding, for each of us our understanding seems to be the correct reality. I don't see any reason why you should tone down or anyone at all. since we aren't even sowan it's not even a problem to make out of. when personal understanding gets violated it feels like defeating and we are helpless on that regard.I personally never had issues with you pouring abhidamma.
    ------ Post added on Jul 23, 2026 at 1:25 PM

    the thing is that nobody builds their framework of understanding out of nothing. everyone has their own facts and logic and defending that framework is perfectly fine as long as those facts and logic are solid.

    BUT if someones logic starts shaking in front of another persons questions/challenges and then they try to protect their framework at any cost by dragging in irrelevant nonsense, thats where the real problem is. it is just not only wastes time, it keeps you stuck inside a failed framework you mistakenly believe has a solid foundation..