SPEECH OF AN IDOL GUIDING THE MISGUIDED

[Juziers]

I wasn't talking about "Allah" forgiving.
I was talking about people forgiving people who did bad to them.

If Islam preaches to forgive human by human, then why there is a concept called a holy war? Why Palestine go into war with Israel and why Bin Laden asks Palestinians to go in to holy war against Israel?
Can't they simply forgive each other?

Furthermore, then what about the concept of an eye-to-eye, tooth-to-tooth in Quaran? Are you telling me that Quaran is wrong?

Hi x-pert !

If you take some time to meditate, the verses I've mentioned from the Quran also talks about forgiving between people

The holy war (commonly known as 'jihad' although jihad has a larger meaning englobing all efforts in everyway) is a means to defend yourself, your dignity, your family, your country etc. When someone physically harms anyof the above mentioned aspects, you must defend them eye to eye. In this sense, the Quran is just talking justice and their's nothing wrong in it

As for Palestinians, they didn't initiate any war with anyone. The Palestinians have always been in their country since pre-islamic period. They were forcefully expropriated from their motherland in 1948 by the jews after the hitler events, with the support and blessings of USA and UK at that time. Since then , the jews have gradually expropriated little by little the palestinians from their motherland. So what the palestinians are trying to regain is , none other than their own motherland.

Now just imagine the indians come to SL and chase us out from our homes , kill your family, tarnish your dignity.........what will a real Sri Lankan do ?

 

[x-pert]

i recon your a good discussion maker, thats why i would expect a bit more from you than this.

1. there is nothing called "HOLY WAR" in islam, simple and clear.
of course it exsist in CNN,FOX,BBC,SKY etc.but again they have nothing to with anything else than "MONEY"

2. Palestinians are not doing a "HOLY WAR" again. please read more about "occupation" and "resistance". if you need a local example see why 4th of february is important to sri lankans.

3. and YES Islam says fight when you need to fight, dont just run away.
BIN LADEN - Refer to point 1 again about CNN,BBC
basically europians, americans stole everything from everyone and are still doing ie:check sri lanka itself from colonial to post colonial era. chased red indians, aborogins,south africans and got all their lands and resourses. when they wanted the oil from muslim countries it wasnt easy to get away like it. thus came the "fight against terrorism".

I reckon you're a Muslim?

1. If there is no holy war, then what about Jihad?

2. I didn't tell Israel is correct.
Israel is wrong. And Palestine is also wrong!

3. So basically a dual system. Once they say to fight back. Again they say to forgive?
About the Oil and Western world... You have to come out of the well mate. There are very few conspiracy theories in the world

 

[x-pert]

Hi x-pert !

If you take some time to meditate, the verses I've mentioned from the Quran also talks about forgiving between people

The holy war (commonly known as 'jihad' although jihad has a larger meaning englobing all efforts in everyway) is a means to defend yourself, your dignity, your family, your country etc. When someone physically harms anyof the above mentioned aspects, you must defend them eye to eye. In this sense, the Quran is just talking justice and their's nothing wrong in it

So hatred is Justice in Islam?

Don't you think that if you hit back the person who hit you, he will never stop hitting you and try to take revenge again? Hatred is not the solution mate.

But if you really forgive the person who did hit you, he or she won't hit you again, isn't it?

As for Palestinians, they didn't initiate any war with anyone. The Palestinians have always been in their country since pre-islamic period. They were forcefully expropriated from their motherland in 1948 by the jews after the hitler events, with the support and blessings of USA and UK at that time. Since then , the jews have gradually expropriated little by little the palestinians from their motherland. So what the palestinians are trying to regain is , none other than their own motherland.

Now just imagine the indians come to SL and chase us out from our homes , kill your family, tarnish your dignity.........what will a real Sri Lankan do ?

If India comes to SL, then the only option is to surrender. Because India has more power than Sri Lanka in terms of Weaponry, Wealth, Technology, Foreign power etc.

Blind patriotism is a killer. Anyone can love their motherland while living in another country. So war is not a solution in terms of a religion.

Wars are for politicians. Not for a religion.

 

[gazaly]

I reckon you're a Muslim?

1. If there is no holy war, then what about Jihad?

Machan mey prashneta mama wenama thread ekaka uththare deelai thiyenney... http://www.elakiri.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147297
machan Islam kiyanney thoppiyak daala rawla thiyala paswela palligihilla hajj karala onna oyawage deywal karana deyta witharak newei machan.. Islam kiyanney Muslimlata life Style ekak. a'ke deviyange paththata adaalawa api praykanawa wagey mama kalin kiwwa deywaluth athuluwenawa.. namuth kenek ipaduna eke indala marenathuru eya loke inna kaaledi karanna o'na deywal hasirenna o'na deywal gana Hama neethiyakma Muslimlata kiyala deela thiyenney.. so mey Life Style eke wena aagam wala(wena aagam kiyanney a' aagamwala puda poogawan wagey deywal karana eka withamai bohodurata aagamika deywal hatiyata balanney) wage ekama vidiyatama samanaa karala hithanna baha.. pls machan poddak newei mama kiyanney godak Islam kiana eka gana umba machan hoyala Dana ganin.. namuth mey western media walin nam newei..

machan Islam wala War eka anumatha karanney ekama eka awasthawaka witharai.. A'yamkisi balawegayak mey Islamic Life Style eka nathikaranna haduwoth A'ka bera ganna fight karanna kiyanawa.. (mama e'ye EK eke article ekak dakka A'ke boudda (nalin da silva) kenek kiyanawa sinhalayo rata aagama pathuruwanna yudda karana aya newei Namuth A'aagamata Jaathiyata wiruddawa ena balaweyga walata Erehiwa nagisinnata nopakilena Niwatayinuth newei kiyalaa.. so meyken peynawaney tharjanay unamai yuddey anumatha karanney nathuwa muslim nowana ayata wiruddawa yudda karana eka Islam wala haram...

peace.

 

[Juziers]

So hatred is Justice in Islam?

Don't you think that if you hit back the person who hit you, he will never stop hitting you and try to take revenge again? Hatred is not the solution mate.

But if you really forgive the person who did hit you, he or she won't hit you again, isn't it?



If India comes to SL, then the only option is to surrender. Because India has more power than Sri Lanka in terms of Weaponry, Wealth, Technology, Foreign power etc.

Blind patriotism is a killer. Anyone can love their motherland while living in another country. So war is not a solution in terms of a religion.

Wars are for politicians. Not for a religion.

You're right. It's a choice. When somebody is trying to kill you, you wait until he finishes with you. You indeed have the right to choose this way. But as muslims, we try to defend ourselves. That's our choice

As for the Sri lankan issue, we muslims don't defend ourselves only if we have material advantage. Even without complete material advantage, we will combat oppression because we know that our final destination is towards Allah anyway. This is justice and wisdom in Islam.

 

[gazaly]

ko x-pert machan umbata mama kiyapu thread eka baluwada ?

 

[freon]

I reckon you're a Muslim?

1. If there is no holy war, then what about Jihad?

2. I didn't tell Israel is correct.
Israel is wrong. And Palestine is also wrong!

3. So basically a dual system. Once they say to fight back. Again they say to forgive?
About the Oil and Western world... You have to come out of the well mate. There are very few conspiracy theories in the world

i dont really see any point i'm being muslim. if you are saying i'm biased so do you for whatever your belief system. doesnt make any sense from the discussion point of view.

1. jihad is an arabic term, you will need to understand the language for it.

if you dont,can take someone who has studies on it and not a muslim (infact a christian)
Karen Armstrong explains that “the primary meaning of the word jihad is not "holy war" but "struggle." It refers to the difficult effort that is needed to put God's will into practice at every level--personal and social as well as political.”
source

you want an idea. you can call what che, martine luther king, gandi, mandela, even mother theresa, moses jesus did as jihad in islamic perspective. fighting for what they believed is good.

2. And Palestine is also wrong! - HOW? by trying to get the their country occupied by some else? so i assume according to you gandhi,madela,weera puran appu and also SL army now is wrong

3. conspiracy theory? haha you still think US went to iraq to get WMD? look out for the carrot buddy

 

[Hot-Witch-Girl]

Can't you people understand the large picture and the obvious face. Religion is originaly a good thing to descipline people, (and anyay to control behaviour).

When there is a political issue, the politicians uses Religion to give Confidance to the warriors. So the politicians alter the religion as they want.

If you look in to the past, you can see so many examples.

Hitler used cenema projectors to project an image of Mother Mary, up above the German military camps on the sky. This was to improv the confidance in German Military.

Bin Laden has also introduced New Laws in to Islam to promote the war against White People.

When a Religion is altered or used in aid of politics, religions gets tarnished.

 

[Hot-Witch-Girl]

Can't you people understand the large picture and the obvious face. Religion is originaly a good thing to descipline people, (and anyay to control behaviour).

When there is a political issue, the politicians uses Religion to give Confidance to the warriors. So the politicians alter the religion as they want.

If you look in to the past, you can see so many examples.

Hitler used cenema projectors to project an image of Mother Mary, up above the German military camps on the sky. This was to improv the confidance in German Military.

Bin Laden has also introduced New Laws in to Islam to promote the war against White People.

When a Religion is altered or used in aid of politics, religions gets tarnished.

 

[x-pert]

Machan mey prashneta mama wenama thread ekaka uththare deelai thiyenney... http://www.elakiri.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147297
machan Islam kiyanney thoppiyak daala rawla thiyala paswela palligihilla hajj karala onna oyawage deywal karana deyta witharak newei machan.. Islam kiyanney Muslimlata life Style ekak. a'ke deviyange paththata adaalawa api praykanawa wagey mama kalin kiwwa deywaluth athuluwenawa.. namuth kenek ipaduna eke indala marenathuru eya loke inna kaaledi karanna o'na deywal hasirenna o'na deywal gana Hama neethiyakma Muslimlata kiyala deela thiyenney.. so mey Life Style eke wena aagam wala(wena aagam kiyanney a' aagamwala puda poogawan wagey deywal karana eka withamai bohodurata aagamika deywal hatiyata balanney) wage ekama vidiyatama samanaa karala hithanna baha.. pls machan poddak newei mama kiyanney godak Islam kiana eka gana umba machan hoyala Dana ganin.. namuth mey western media walin nam newei..

machan Islam wala War eka anumatha karanney ekama eka awasthawaka witharai.. A'yamkisi balawegayak mey Islamic Life Style eka nathikaranna haduwoth A'ka bera ganna fight karanna kiyanawa.. (mama e'ye EK eke article ekak dakka A'ke boudda (nalin da silva) kenek kiyanawa sinhalayo rata aagama pathuruwanna yudda karana aya newei Namuth A'aagamata Jaathiyata wiruddawa ena balaweyga walata Erehiwa nagisinnata nopakilena Niwatayinuth newei kiyalaa.. so meyken peynawaney tharjanay unamai yuddey anumatha karanney nathuwa muslim nowana ayata wiruddawa yudda karana eka Islam wala haram...

peace.

Naha naha machang mama ehema waradiyi kiyala newei kiyuwe...

Mama kiyanne aagame naamayen ehema karana eka waradiyi kiyalai.

Lankawe kauruth kiyanne nahane eyala Buddhist nisai and eyalage budhist life style ekata prashnayak nisai LTTE ekata gahanne kiyala?

aagamata jaathiyata erehiwa nagee sitina balawega walata gahanna ooni bawa boru newei. Namuth eekata thamunge aagame namin, aagama wikunala yudda karana eka waradiyi neda? Ehema kaloth ko ara Islam is a religion of love and peace kiyana concept eka machang?

[Nalin De Silva kiyanne mata nam amu jaathiwaadi pissek - podi kaale wechcha deyak nisa dan poddak upset wagei. So minihage eewa kiyanna epa pls ]

 

[x-pert]

You're right. It's a choice. When somebody is trying to kill you, you wait until he finishes with you. You indeed have the right to choose this way. But as muslims, we try to defend ourselves. That's our choice

As for the Sri lankan issue, we muslims don't defend ourselves only if we have material advantage. Even without complete material advantage, we will combat oppression because we know that our final destination is towards Allah anyway. This is justice and wisdom in Islam.

Good for you Keep it up and populate the word saying that Islam is a religion of love and peace!

i dont really see any point i'm being muslim. if you are saying i'm biased so do you for whatever your belief system. doesnt make any sense from the discussion point of view.

1. jihad is an arabic term, you will need to understand the language for it.

if you dont,can take someone who has studies on it and not a muslim (infact a christian)
Karen Armstrong explains that “the primary meaning of the word jihad is not "holy war" but "struggle." It refers to the difficult effort that is needed to put God's will into practice at every level--personal and social as well as political.”
source

you want an idea. you can call what che, martine luther king, gandi, mandela, even mother theresa, moses jesus did as jihad in islamic perspective. fighting for what they believed is good.

2. And Palestine is also wrong! - HOW? by trying to get the their country occupied by some else? so i assume according to you gandhi,madela,weera puran appu and also SL army now is wrong

3. conspiracy theory? haha you still think US went to iraq to get WMD? look out for the carrot buddy

1. Trying for a revolution and Struggle are 2 different things. Furthermore, did anybody of the above example used their religion to justify their cause?
Did Moses or Jesus tell to the people that the Bible says to fight?
No. In face, Jesus said not to fight and sacrifice their lives.

Quaran says, if you kill a single innocent man, it's the same as killing the whole mankind. And according to the current Jihad acts, many innocent people gets killed by suicide bombings...

2. Killing innocent people is wrong irrespective of the party

3. I'm not a rabbit like you
Anyway people know why US went to Iraq. I wasn't talking about Iraq.

 

[sri_lion]

Hi sri lion,

I admire your keenness to gain knowledge about islam through the holy texts. The only thing is, you won't understand these verses correctly if you don't refer to how these verses are explained in the exegesis. That means most of the Quranic verses are associated to a precise situation which, if you don't know, you'll never get the meaning.

As for the verse 8:60

This verse refers to the battle of 'Badr', the first in Islam. Battles are devided into two categories, namely 'defensive battles' and 'offensive battles'. 'Badr' was a case of a defensive battle. After muslims being harrased, tortured and some executed in the early years of Islam, The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) got the order to defend the muslim community from the hands of their enemies. Until this point, the muslims never reacted hatredly inspite of all barbaric acts they were subjected to. By this verse Allah gave them the signal to defend themselves by spending(the early muslims were poor in their majority) and participating.

As for verse 8;65

Still we are in the context of the 'Badr' war. The muslims in whole were not more than 313 fighters. The Quraish enemies were more than 1000 well trained and armed fighters. The enemies counted more than 700 cavalrymen whereas the muslims didn't exceed a dozen. So you clearly observe the unbalance of power. Allah provided this verse as a moral encouragement.

As for verse 8;66

This verse was revealed after the battle was over(with the victory of the muslims which Allah provided by sending Angels to battle by their side), to lighten the future burdens. That's why the verse reads hundred for two hundred and not hundred for thousand enemies as in the previous verse.

As for verse 8;15

This verse was sent well before the 'Badr' battle to encourage muslims not to turn back compairing their unbalanced armies.

As for verse 4;76

This verse is the reply for some early muslims who feared battle when they got the order to battle to defend themselves and said " what! we're ordered to battle ?"

As you see my friend, All the verses which you refer are for the same defensive battle. Defending oneself, his family, his dignity, his property and his country is universaly accepted human rights(Geneva chart for human rights).

I hope you got the point.Thank you

1. So there's no mercy / forgiveness for enemies in Q'ran?

2. Does the Q'ran only apply to ancient times?

3. What about the Judgement day? the day that Allah will sent all non-Muslims to hell, Why not forgive them? there could be many innocent good people, do they deserve to be in the HELL just because they did not follow Allah's path?

And you talk about Human Rights.. do you know in today's world even criminals have human rights? what's your take on that?

 

[Juziers]

Good for you Keep it up and populate the word saying that Islam is a religion of love and peace!

Islam is indeed THE religion which prefers peace more than any other. Ethymologically, the word 'ISLAM' derives from the roots 'SALAM', which also means 'PEACE'. So sir, you can observe that this religion of Allah is named 'the religion of peace'. So naturally, as muslims, we prefer peace than war. Islam doesn't prescribe war for the sake of just having a war with someone. In the contrary, it prescribes war for selfdefense when you are oppressed (which is a universal fact).

 

[Juziers]

1. So there's no mercy / forgiveness for enemies in Q'ran?

2. Does the Q'ran only apply to ancient times?

3. What about the Judgement day? the day that Allah will sent all non-Muslims to hell, Why not forgive them? there could be many innocent good people, do they deserve to be in the HELL just because they did not follow Allah's path?

And you talk about Human Rights.. do you know in today's world even criminals have human rights? what's your take on that?

Answer to question n°1 : There's indeed mercy and forgiveness for enemies ...as soon as they lay down arms and stop aggression. Just take the example of the victory of Mekkah in the 10th year after Prophet Muhammed's (pbuh) exode. He pardoned everyone without exception, even Hinda who killed and bit the heart of Prophet's uncle Hamza.

Answer to question n°2 : Quran is the last monotheist religion which completed Allah's earlier revelations and set the world order until the day of judgement. So it's laws are universal and never outdated

Quran : 34:28 NOW [as for thee, O Muhammad,] We have not sent thee otherwise than to mankind at large, to be a herald of glad tidings and a warner; but most people do not understand [this],

Answer to question n°3 : The judgementday is true, willingly or unwillingly, we'll all be questioned of our worldly deeds. Injustice will be punished. The greatest injustice in Islam is what you cause for your ownself, that's disbeleaving the Almighty who created your person, gave life to your soul from His breath, pleasured and kindled you with whatever benefited you. So that why the Almighty says in the Quran :4:48 VERILY, God does not forgive the ascribing of divinity to aught beside Him, although He forgives any lesser sin unto whomever He wills: for he who ascribes divinity to aught beside God has indeed contrived an awesome sin.

Answer to question n°4 : In Islam, criminals do have rights. That is to be dealt with appropriate measure. You must be impartial in dealing with their matters taking to consideration all substances of their background which led them to crimes. If they repent and repair the door of forgiveness is ever open.

 

[x-pert]

Islam is indeed THE religion which prefers peace more than any other. Ethymologically, the word 'ISLAM' derives from the roots 'SALAM', which also means 'PEACE'. So sir, you can observe that this religion of Allah is named 'the religion of peace'. So naturally, as muslims, we prefer peace than war. Islam doesn't prescribe war for the sake of just having a war with someone. In the contrary, it prescribes war for selfdefense when you are oppressed (which is a universal fact).

I'll take that as a moderate answer.

What's your opinion about Bin Laden attacking US and the recent Mujahadeen killings in India?

 

[Juziers]

I'll take that as a moderate answer.

What's your opinion about Bin Laden attacking US and the recent Mujahadeen killings in India?

If you ask me facts on Islam, I indeed would have done my best to answer you. I don't have much facts about Bin Laden to make a clear picture for myself. I watch news as everyone, so no real idea about him. Be it Bin Laden or the so called Mujahideens of India, killing innocent people is strictly forbidden in Islam.

Quran :5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

 

[freon]

k sorry for the late reply EK seems down most of the times now

1. Trying for a revolution and Struggle are 2 different things. Furthermore, did anybody of the above example used their religion to justify their cause?
Did Moses or Jesus tell to the people that the Bible says to fight?
No. In face, Jesus said not to fight and sacrifice their lives.

Quaran says, if you kill a single innocent man, it's the same as killing the whole mankind. And according to the current Jihad acts, many innocent people gets killed by suicide bombings...

thats exactly what i ponder as well. why doesnt all other religions except for islam doesnt have a stand on resistance?history is evidence that struggle existed from the time human came to existance. if a religion is a guidance shouldnt it guide man when there is peace and when there is war?

whats your (or your beliefes) stand when your countries occupied by invaders and you are chased off your home and denied all rights to return?

I'm not gona talk about jesus or moses cos with all due respect to followers, i think what they preached where changed now.

2. Killing innocent people is wrong irrespective of the party

i absolutely agree, at the same time i recognize the right to resist against invaders as well do you?

3. I'm not a rabbit like you
Anyway people know why US went to Iraq. I wasn't talking about Iraq.

then i would like to know why you think us and western powers take such interest in middle east?

 

[ublaze]

grt post , keep on posting these sort of thing s

 

[x-pert]

If you ask me facts on Islam, I indeed would have done my best to answer you. I don't have much facts about Bin Laden to make a clear picture for myself. I watch news as everyone, so no real idea about him. Be it Bin Laden or the so called Mujahideens of India, killing innocent people is strictly forbidden in Islam.

Quran :5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

Now you're talking

Which means you have a clear line between terrorism and Islam, which is good.
That's what I like to see from real Muslims.

[About the Quaranic verse..., Hadith says, If anyone take a life of a human, it's the same as taking the life of all humankind - be it your enemies or invaders.]

 

[x-pert]

k sorry for the late reply EK seems down most of the times now

No problem

thats exactly what i ponder as well. why doesnt all other religions except for islam doesnt have a stand on resistance?history is evidence that struggle existed from the time human came to existance. if a religion is a guidance shouldnt it guide man when there is peace and when there is war?

Religion is there to show the correct path of life in terms of spirituality. Religion is not a complete philosophy to teach the way of life. Legal systems are the complete guide.

Yes, there may be wars. But if we fight, we have to face the consequences, no matter who is right and who is wrong.

whats your (or your beliefes) stand when your countries occupied by invaders and you are chased off your home and denied all rights to return?

If that happens, I have many other countries to go and live happily
I don't have a bond to a particular country. We all are human. So humankind comes very first before my country. Which means I can live in any country where there are humans.

I'm not gona talk about jesus or moses cos with all due respect to followers, i think what they preached where changed now.
i absolutely agree, at the same time i recognize the right to resist against invaders as well do you?

Yeah. That's quite true. But that resistance shouldn't come through a religious book. It should come from the legal system of a country. Because killing is bad for what I believe.

So if we fight and kill someone, then we should face the consequences rather than believing in going to heaven with 72 virgins.

then i would like to know why you think us and western powers take such interest in middle east?

Mainly because of Oil and Marjuana
Secondarily to create unrest, so that they can sell their weapons.