එක් ආත්මයක අගුටු මිටි පුද්ගලයෙකුව ඉපදී සිටි අපේ බෝසතුන් |

ek_rosh

Well-known member
  • May 9, 2014
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    Don't see the point of asking real questions from you :D and I am not accusing you, seriusly... would a court accuse some one who's mentally impaired? i.e someone who sees and believes imaginary things...(ex: Supreme ඉන්ද්‍රිය®) :lol: :lol: :rofl:

    Glad you understood that there is no point in this thread anymore. I realized it long time ago when you brought illogical, non-practical straight-road analogy to save your butt for something very obvious. I clearly understood that your point is not to get anything from the discussion but to prove your point. I'm done with this already.

    So you came up with this by yourself, not because it was in the book?

    My interpretation of manasikara is not relevant (or even important) here because it can be wrong, I am more interested in your interpretation of it because it is something I’ve never heard of, how did you come to conclution that “යෝනිසෝ මනසිකාර” is “මනෝ ඉන්ද්‍රිය බල රහිත කරල කරන එක”?

    You have no need to rely on my interpretation. I said this many times. If you dont see anything wrong with yours, no point of showing you anything else. You will be scanning through your already polarized glasses to verify and will automatically be rejected without even proper evaluation. Waste of time. Believe me, you will never find anything other than what you believe is right. Coz, anything comes to your eyes is already polarized by your glasses and already rejected.

    Check whatever interpretation you have makes sense achieving those what were listed in ayoniso-manasikara sutta..If it does, move on. If it doesnt find what's wrong.

    Any arahath scholars who said that?

    If I can borrow your arihat detector, I may test it for you. :lol::lol::lol:

    BTW, how many arihats have you been listening to this far? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    Ok so you are not creative... no probs..piggyback on mine then :lol:

    Oh no thanks. Not a fan of creative jokes like straight-roads, bla bla bla.. :lol:

    Not sure, you are hard to read, due to your DID:rofl::rofl:

    Why do you wanna read me, when you have never read what i said correctly this far. :rofl::rofl:
     
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    MalSeven

    Well-known member
  • Jan 16, 2019
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    Glad you understood that there is no point in this thread anymore. I realized it long time ago when you brought illogical, non-practical straight-road analogy to save your butt for something very obvious. I clearly understood that your point is not to get anything from the discussion but to prove your point. I'm done with this already.
    This was my exact thoughts too when you brought up unknown dukkha and the sensor you create with distorted senses. If your grasp of logic based on this, then I am happy to be proven illogical. I am not ready to change my point of view for something I know incorrect for a fact. Yes, you are right there is no point… just want to clarify the statement below for my information (not for an argument) that’s all.

    You have no need to rely on my interpretation. I said this many times. If you dont see anything wrong with yours, no point of showing you anything else. You will be scanning through your already polarized glasses to verify and will automatically be rejected without even proper evaluation. Waste of time. Believe me, you will never find anything other than what you believe is right. Coz, anything comes to your eyes is already polarized by your glasses and already rejected.

    Check whatever interpretation you have makes sense achieving those what were listed in ayoniso-manasikara sutta..If it does, move on. If it doesnt find what's wrong.
    To rely or not rely, I like to know what this is all about, surely there has to be something. Unless of course you came up with this using vague and arbitrary methods based on your interpretation of dhamma. In that case, just say it, you don’t have to be so defensive about it. Its everyone’s right, right? :lol:
    Belief has nothing to do hear too, if you don’t have the facts, then be honest about it … easy as that …:D

    Again, my interpretation of ayoniso-manasikara sutta makes sense to me but this one (“යෝනිසෝ මනසිකාර” is “මනෝ ඉන්ද්‍රිය බල රහිත කරල කරන එක” ) doesn’t… that is why I am trying to understand.

    If I can borrow your arihat detector, I may test it for you. :lol::lol::lol:

    BTW, how many arihats have you been listening to this far? :rofl::rofl::rofl:
    I don’t have such thing and I haven’t listened to anyone who is arihat. I am just asking whether the statement you made above had come from a an arihat. Just a simple yes/no question really… doesn’t need to be so defensive… so its a “No” I assume? :rofl::D

    Oh no thanks. Not a fan of creative jokes like straight-roads, bla bla bla.. :lol:
    You said “No thanks” but you used it in previous post, but never mind they are just jokes.:cool:
    Why do you wanna read me, when you have never read what i said correctly this far. :rofl::rofl:
    Because you asked me whether I knew what you meant, so without reading you how can I do that?? :lol:
     

    ek_rosh

    Well-known member
  • May 9, 2014
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    This was my exact thoughts too when you brought up unknown dukkha and the sensor you create with distorted senses. If your grasp of logic based on this, then I am happy to be proven illogical. I am not ready to change my point of view for something I know incorrect for a fact. Yes, you are right there is no point… just want to clarify the statement below for my information (not for an argument) that’s all.

    First of all, you should not be comparing, the unknown dukka to your straight-road example. Your analogy was something that can be understood and rejected simply by our experience. But, dukka is not something you can do that easily. You gotta dive deep into in order to see what it says before making any judgement.

    "I am not ready to change my point of view for something I know incorrect for a fact."

    This is what I said before. You know something is wrong for a fact though your view. So, how does a new idea that doesnt match your view even go through for a fair evaluation? That is already rejected as a wrong fact by your view. This is what exactly Mr.Greenthunder said, you walk any idea thrown at you over your validity street (that you assume true). So, how in the world something can pass that doesnt match your criteria?

    btw, have you heard of vipallasas?

    To rely or not rely, I like to know what this is all about, surely there has to be something. Unless of course you came up with this using vague and arbitrary methods based on your interpretation of dhamma. In that case, just say it, you don’t have to be so defensive about it. Its everyone’s right, right? :lol:
    Belief has nothing to do hear too, if you don’t have the facts, then be honest about it … easy as that …:D

    Again, my interpretation of ayoniso-manasikara sutta makes sense to me but this one (“යෝනිසෝ මනසිකාර” is “මනෝ ඉන්ද්‍රිය බල රහිත කරල කරන එක” ) doesn’t… that is why I am trying to understand.

    Im not gonna teach you this. Because it is useless. This is not something a sutta says this is what is done. So, I can't show it in an acceptable way according to your standards. It is like the whole process in a nutshell. Can you find what whole satipattana does to your consciousness (vinnana) in one sutta? It is exactly like that.

    You dont have to tell me, but just think yourself how this satipattana does work. What does it do to your mind? What does it eliminate and how?. How does your mind/mental factors work after that. What does exactly happen at the moment of magga-pala to your mind.

    If you have a clear idea about these, you will see what I'm talking about.


    I don’t have such thing and I haven’t listened to anyone who is arihat. I am just asking whether the statement you made above had come from a an arihat. Just a simple yes/no question really… doesn’t need to be so defensive… so its a “No” I assume? :rofl::D

    I think you missed the point here. You may have listened to bana from many monks. How do you know which one is arihat or not?. Samething, I have no way to evaluate that too.

    I dont wanna say that we should believe what these scholars say. But one thing I must say is that these scholars (not everyone) have extensive knowledge about suttas, abhidamma, commentaries and etc. I have seen some suttas we look at in a certain angle, they show many different aspects that we have never thought about. You can get alot to get from them.
     
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    MalSeven

    Well-known member
  • Jan 16, 2019
    1,259
    467
    83
    First of all, you should not be comparing, the unknown dukka to your straight-road example. Your analogy was something that can be understood and rejected simply by our experience. But, dukka is not something you can do that easily. You gotta dive deep into in order to see what it says before making any judgement.

    "I am not ready to change my point of view for something I know incorrect for a fact."

    This is what I said before. You know something is wrong for a fact though your view. So, how does a new idea that doesnt match your view even go through for a fair evaluation? That is already rejected as a wrong fact by your view. This is what exactly Mr.Greenthunder said, you walk any idea thrown at you over your validity street (that you assume true). So, how in the world something can pass that doesnt match your criteria?

    btw, have you heard of vipallasas?
    Ok Mr. Rosh, as you can see our conversation is going nowhere. According to my view, your view is wrong and according to yours, mine is wrong. Let’s leave at that as we both have the right to follow our own different views.

    Yes, I have heard of vipallasas but I know for a fact that you have a different interpretation to mine. I know this because I was also shared your view some time back (was a strong advocate too). So, let’s not continue this already too long thread for something that none of us going to agree on.
    Im not gonna teach you this. Because it is useless. This is not something a sutta says this is what is done. So, I can't show it in an acceptable way according to your standards. It is like the whole process in a nutshell. Can you find what whole satipattana does to your consciousness (vinnana) in one sutta? It is exactly like that.

    You dont have to tell me, but just think yourself how this satipattana does work. What does it do to your mind? What does it eliminate and how?. How does your mind/mental factors work after that. What does exactly happen at the moment of magga-pala to your mind.

    If you have a clear idea about these, you will see what I'm talking about.
    Sure, no problem. I didn’t expect you to teach me. Just asked what you based it on, but when you say “this is not something a sutta says this is what is done” It is apparent that this is your own interpretation… and that’s fine. That’s all I wanted to know before dumping it.

    I know how satipattana works but as I said before, it is also different to what you call satipattana, again no point discussing.
    I think you missed the point here. You may have listened to bana from many monks. How do you know which one is arihat or not?. Samething, I have no way to evaluate that too.

    I dont wanna say that we should believe what these scholars say. But one thing I must say is that these scholars (not everyone) have extensive knowledge about suttas, abhidamma, commentaries and etc. I have seen some suttas we look at in a certain angle, they show many different aspects that we have never thought about. You can get alot to get from them.
    I meant I haven’t heard dhamma from someone who is calming to be an arihath and I was just asking the qestion... but your point taken.
     
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    ek_rosh

    Well-known member
  • May 9, 2014
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    Ok Mr. Rosh, as you can see our conversation is going nowhere. According to my view, your view is wrong and according to yours, mine is wrong. Let’s leave at that as we both have the right to follow our own different views.

    Yes, I have heard of vipallasas but I know for a fact that you have a different interpretation to mine. I know this because I was also shared your view some time back (was a strong advocate too). So, let’s not continue this already too long thread for something that none of us going to agree on.

    Sure, no problem. I didn’t expect you to teach me. Just asked what you based it on, but when you say “this is not something a sutta says this is what is done” It is apparent that this is your own interpretation… and that’s fine. That’s all I wanted to know before dumping it.

    I know how satipattana works but as I said before, it is also different to what you call satipattana, again no point discussing.

    I meant I haven’t heard dhamma from someone who is calming to be an arihath and I was just asking the qestion... but your point taken.

    Yup, it is your call to dump it or not. I wouldnt dump somthing just because it is not explicitly in a sutta. I dont think even the meanings of 3 marks are explicitly in a sutta, except some close ones. Anyway, it is your choice. 👍
     
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