What is Buddhism ?

[sri_lion]

Body is thirsty --> drink what ever available drinkable liquid
no karma in this situation right ?

YES! Unless you see an alive ant in your drink but gulp it down anyway..

If this is correct, what happens if the available liquid happens to be alcohol ?

But you should be absolutely sure that there's no other means of getting anything else other than Alcohol to drink.. well.. you cannot lie to yourself.. "Chethana" always precede things!

 

[kosandpol]

"Chethana" always precede things!

This brings be to a question I always had.

Now it is said that by doing good deeds ("kusal") one makes one's this life and next a better one.
So what is the "Chethana" here ? "I want to do good deeds so that I'll have a better life" ?
that always seem selfish to me, thus "klesha" and destructive karma.

What have I got mixed up here ?

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

thirsty, because the body needs liquids -- natural need.

thirsty, because you crave for alcohol -- greed (thanha).

That is the difference.

I would like to add a word about alcohol.

I think Buddha didn't mean
avoiding Alcohol absolutely.
In Mangala Sutta he says
Majjapanacha sangnamo.
Sanyamayen Madya paanaya
Taking alcohol with discipline.

Surameraya Majjapamadatthana veramani
means
Madyayen pramadayata peminiemen valakimi
Avoiding Alchol to the level of being delayed

Prmadaya
means
missing the awareness of this moment
which is Samma Sati.

Appamada is
practicing Samma Sati.
It is the way to be alive.
One who is not aware of himself is a corpse.
Appamado amatha padan- pamado machchuno padan.


​

 

[sri_lion]

This brings be to a question I always had.

Now it is said that by doing good deeds ("kusal") one makes one's this life and next a better one.
So what is the "Chethana" here ? "I want to do good deeds so that I'll have a better life" ?
that always seem selfish to me, thus "klesha" and destructive karma.

What have I got mixed up here ?

Yeah I understand your question.. I think what you are asking is, if I always do "good things" with the intention of getting a good life wont that be accounted for "greed", right?

But the issue here is according to Buddhism the ULTIMATE GOAL is NOT a good life.. ultimate goal is to break away from it!

So again here comes "Chethana", if you do good deeds with the intention of living a good life and ultimately use that to achieve Nirvana, that cannot be accounted for greed, because GREED is not the motivation here.. its getting rid of the cycle!

But if you do good deeds saying, if I do this in the next life time I'll be damn rich!

NOW THAT'S GREED, and that's what most people today unfortunately expects too!

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

This brings be to a question I always had.

Now it is said that by doing good deeds ("kusal") one makes one's this life and next a better one.
So what is the "Chethana" here ? "I want to do good deeds so that I'll have a better life" ?
that always seem selfish to me, thus "klesha" and destructive karma.

What have I got mixed up here ?

Good Karma is useful but also a burden
like money and wealth.
Raga and dwesha both are impurities
defilements in mind.

Here two Chetnas are involved.
One when he thinks about future
and other is what he has when he actually does it.
If one has lobha - in one instance
if the mind is pleasant
result is pleasant.
if the mind is unpleasant
result is unpleasant.
Read the first two verses in Dhammapada.

If Upadana is pleasant
bhava is pleasant.
If Upadana is unpleasant
bhava is unpleasant.

Buddha's principles are scientific.
Lack of our scientific ability
makes us fail to recognize them.
That is why west
is grabbing Buddha's Dhamma
and we neglect.
We are losing Sharddha and Buddhi both
becoming slaves of west everyday.




​

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

This brings be to a question I always had.

Now it is said that by doing good deeds ("kusal") one makes one's this life and next a better one.
So what is the "Chethana" here ? "I want to do good deeds so that I'll have a better life" ?
that always seem selfish to me, thus "klesha" and destructive karma.

What have I got mixed up here ?

If one lives a selfish life
living according to Buddha's Dhamma
is the best way to live.
​

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

Can you elaborate please ?
What are the steps in the 8 fold path ?
What else needs to be fulfilled for Samma Sathi to take place ?

Samma sati
Being aware of Mind and Body
-in and out-
-without reacting-
-in relation to everything in perception-

Kayanupassana
Vedananupassana
Chitthanupassana
Dhammanupassana.

Kaya
Body

Vedana
Changing in body

Chittha
Mind

Dhamma
Changing in Mind
____________________​

 

[kosandpol]

Yeah I understand your question.. I think what you are asking is, if I always do "good things" with the intention of getting a good life wont that be accounted for "greed", right?

But the issue here is according to Buddhism the ULTIMATE GOAL is NOT a good life.. ultimate goal is to break away from it!

So again here comes "Chethana", if you do good deeds with the intention of living a good life and ultimately use that to achieve Nirvana, that cannot be accounted for greed, because GREED is not the motivation here.. its getting rid of the cycle!

but what is considered as "good life" here ?
If it means comfortable life, then the intention is again greed isnt it ?

But if you do good deeds saying, if I do this in the next life time I'll be damn rich!

NOW THAT'S GREED, and that's what most people today unfortunately expects too!

and this is what is being told to do as well by the monks...
this is a mess isnt it ?

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

but what is considered as "good life" here ?
If it means comfortable life, then the intention is again greed isnt it ?


and this is what is being told to do as well by the monks...
this is a mess isnt it ?

The most trustworthy way
to Understand Buddha's Dhamma
is to take it directly from sutta
and practicing them.

Intellectualizing does not help much....
especially for the most valuable part, Satipatthana.
It helps to bring some one to actual experience.
It is like carrying the boat,
sometimes with lot of respect
without using it to cross the river.
Then it is not a boat.

It can be practiced referring to one's own mind and body.
Accepting principles just because they are logical
is against Buddha.

One can go astray merrily
and it will be difficult to start practice.
When one practices
Imaginations can disturb the actual experience.

If not practiced
it is not Buddha's teaching...
Just glorified gossip only.
​

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

Good Karma is useful but also a burden
like money and wealth.
Raga and dwesha both are impurities
defilements in mind.

Here two Chetnas are involved.
One when he thinks about future
and other is what he has when he actually does it.
If one has lobha - in one instance
if the mind is pleasant
result is pleasant.
if the mind is unpleasant
result is unpleasant.
Read the first two verses in Dhammapada.

If Upadana is pleasant
bhava is pleasant.
If Upadana is unpleasant
bhava is unpleasant.

Buddha's principles are scientific.
Lack of our scientific ability
makes us fail to recognize them.
That is why west
is grabbing Buddha's Dhamma
and we neglect.
We are losing Sharddha and Buddhi both
becoming slaves of west everyday.




​

Good karma can give fruits
in a time which is utterly unnecessary.
One may inherit a great wealth
on his death bed.
Good karma gave fruit
but he can't use it.

Nature does not favor any.
Buddha paid for 11 bad karmas
after he was enlightened.
We say good and bad karmas.
For nature both are karmas.
Results of good karmas
bring pleasant results.
Results of bad karmas
bring pleasant results.
Nature does not support
who does good karmas
more than one deserves.
Nature does not punish
who does bad karmas
more than one deserves.


​

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

and this is what is being told to do as well by the monks...
this is a mess isnt it ?

Monks make it a mess,
consciously or unconsciously
just like politicians.
When the water is troubled
fishing is easy.

Most of the monks don't practice
and don't allow others to practice also.
A majority does not know what it is.
There are some monks
who really practice.
but very few.

Once I met a monk
at a vipassana center
who taught Buddha's teaching
in Cathelic Priests Trainning college
near Kandy.
He was talking to me after the Vipassana course.
He told me,
"I became a monk when I was 9 years old,
now I am 45 years old.
Since now I was content.
Now I feel that
I have wasted all these 36 years
without practicing.'
If he was taught
Vipassana when he became a monk
how much he could have developed.
​

 

[sri_lion]

but what is considered as "good life" here ?
If it means comfortable life, then the intention is again greed isnt it ?

"Good Life" in Buddhism doesn't really mean a luxurious life, if you understand the long term goal a good life is only to sustain your physical shape while your mentality transform in accordance with the final goal.

Because not every person is born with the same level of understanding or intelligence, its like a journey from A to B the start and the end is the same but your understanding of the Dhamma makes the difference of how fast you'll get there, if you commit yourself and naturally understands it better than others, you are as good as riding a JET towards your goal...

So yes, if you does all the good with only the intention of pleasing your "panchendriya" then that's greed!

and this is what is being told to do as well by the monks...
this is a mess isnt it ?

Unfortunately you are right!

Majority of the monks today are obsessed with money, themselves and who has the biggest Temple!

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

your understanding of the Dhamma makes the difference of how fast you'll get there, if you commit yourself and naturally understands it better than others, you are as good as riding a JET towards your goal...

?
WHAT
should be understood?
How
it should be understood?
What happens
when we understand?

Please describe
according to
your experience.

What part Klesha plays in this understanding
and final liberation.
​

 

[sri_lion]

WHAT
should be understood?

According to my experience? Well I'm not a Rahath so I'll explain it what as it should be!

The main questions to be answered, which already discussed in this thread is..

1. Identify what is suffering

2. identify what cause suffering

3. Identify what is the procedure to end the suffering

4. Walk the path

Which of we all know is the foundation of Buddhism also known as Four Noble Truth.. That is, what should be understood in a nutshell.

How
it should be understood?

Follow the 8 fold path..

1. Samma-Ditti - Right View

2. Samma-Sankappa - Right Thought

3. Samma-Vaca - Right Words

4. Samma-Kammanta - Right Action

5. Samma-Ajiva - Right Livelihood

6. Samma-Vayama — Right Effort

7. Samma-Sati - Right Awareness

8. Samma-Samadhi - Right Consciousness

What happens
when we understand?

According to my experience.. I cannot give an answer because I'm long way off from this..

But it suppose to make you realize the four noble truths and now probably it all will make sense like a pieces of a puzzle falling into the correct places!

Which now you have a clear picture of the 12 Nidhanas, the origins of suffering.

What part Klesha plays in this understanding
and final liberation.

What do you mean by Final Liberation? Arahat stage?

It is said in Alagaddupama Sutra

"The Dhamma thus well-proclaimed by me is clear, open, evident, stripped of rags. In the Dhamma thus well-proclaimed by me — clear, open, evident, stripped of rags — there is for those monks who are arahants — whose mental effluents are ended, who have reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who are released through right gnosis — no (future) cycle for manifestation. This is how the Dhamma well-proclaimed by me is clear, open, evident, stripped of rags."

So from the 10 fetters..

1. sakkya-diṭṭi - Self

2. vichikichcha - Doubt

3. sīlabbata-paramasa - Attachment

4. kamacchanda - Desire

5. vyapaada - Ill will

6. ruparago - Craving for material things

7. aruparago - Craving for immaterial things

8. maana - Arrogance

9. uddhacca - Relenlesnes

10. avijja - Ignorance

If you are already Anagami which means you already archived the top 5, so for the final push it is the next 5 that one should eradicate.. then becomes Arahat!

 

[kosandpol]

7. aruparago - Craving for immaterial things

Doesnt the want to do "kusal" fall under this ?

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

According to my experience? Well I'm not a Rahath so I'll explain it what as it should be!

The main questions to be answered, which already discussed in this thread is..

1. Identify what is suffering

2. identify what cause suffering

3. Identify what is the procedure to end the suffering

4. Walk the path

Which of we all know is the foundation of Buddhism also known as Four Noble Truth.. That is, what should be understood in a nutshell.

You said
"your understanding of the Dhamma makes the difference"
Walk the path seem to mean something beyond understanding.
How to walk the path?


​

Follow the 8 fold path..

1. Samma-Ditti - Right View

2. Samma-Sankappa - Right Thought

3. Samma-Vaca - Right Words

4. Samma-Kammanta - Right Action

5. Samma-Ajiva - Right Livelihood

6. Samma-Vayama — Right Effort

7. Samma-Sati - Right Awareness

8. Samma-Samadhi - Right Consciousness

You said
"your understanding of the Dhamma makes the difference"
​

Understanding eight fold path
is not seem to be enough it seems.

I will leave other 6.
Can you explain these two in detail.

7. Samma-Sati - Right Awareness
8. Samma-Samadhi - Right Consciousness
​

 

[ChuttaFX]

This is how Assaji Smanera introduced Buddhism to Upathissa Pririwaji (who became Sariyuth Rahathn Wahanse)

every effect has a cause and this cause is the reason for the effect to be.
suffering has a cause (as it's a effect) and this cause is the reason for suffering to be.

This means that if there is no cause, there is no effect. So that, if there is no cause for suffering, there is no suffering. Notice that this explains about four noble truth.

Four noble truth

1. Suffering -
First we should know what suffering is. Suffering is what we experience. If something that we don't like, happens we suffers. If something that we like, doesn't happen, we suffers.

2. Understanding why suffering effects -
Suffering is what what we experience / The effect / The result of something. The way of understanding why suffering effects is called Patichcha Samuppadaya. (Identifying the main cause(s) by going step-by-step backward with causes & effects). Please someone explain it well as I can't remember it all. So explaining Patichcha Samuppadaya would be very appriciated. Patichcha Samuppadaya helps to learn how Loba, Dwesha, Moha cause us to suffer.

3. Understanding how to make no cause for suffering -
Here is the way. Seela > Samadi > Prakgna. Notice that 8 fold path can be categorized under these 3.

I. Seela is to control yourselves (body & mouth). This can't be skipped because we need control the body before controlling mind.

II. Samadi is to control the mind. In other words, to keep focus on one thing. this keep five precepts deactivated as long as we keep our focus on one thing. This is very important because you can't see the truth about world if you've the five precepts on your mind. However this doen't clean your mind permanently of the Five Precepts.

III. Prakgna is to break the Sansara Cycle & stop suffering. Thinking in deep with a open-mind about what we got known in the 2nd of 4 noble truth. We should remove the cause(s) from our mind it's not a deactivation of Five Precepts. They need to be removed permanently. This step would be completed when practicing with a open-mind. So that's why 2nd step should be done before this.

4. Fouth is to walk the way we understood in 3rd step. (Seela > Samadi > Prakgna) The person who did it is en-lighted and have broken the Sansara Cycle and have realized the truth about world.

disclaimer: for information purposes.
please correct if i've posted something incorrect.

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

This is how Assaji Smanera introduced Buddhism to Upathissa Pririwaji (who became Sariyuth Rahathn Wahanse)


This means that if there is no cause, there is no effect. So that, if there is no cause for suffering, there is no suffering. Notice that this explains about four noble truth.

Four noble truth

1. Suffering -
First we should know what suffering is. Suffering is what we experience. If something that we don't like, happens we suffers. If something that we like, doesn't happen, we suffers.

2. Understanding why suffering effects -
Suffering is what what we experience / The effect / The result of something. The way of understanding why suffering effects is called Patichcha Samuppadaya. (Identifying the main cause(s) by going step-by-step backward with causes & effects). Please someone explain it well as I can't remember it all. So explaining Patichcha Samuppadaya would be very appriciated. Patichcha Samuppadaya helps to learn how Loba, Dwesha, Moha cause us to suffer.

3. Understanding how to make no cause for suffering -
Here is the way. Seela > Samadi > Prakgna. Notice that 8 fold path can be categorized under these 3.

I. Seela is to control yourselves (body & mouth). This can't be skipped because we need control the body before controlling mind.

II. Samadi is to control the mind. In other words, to keep focus on one thing. this keep five precepts deactivated as long as we keep our focus on one thing. This is very important because you can't see the truth about world if you've the five precepts on your mind. However this doen't clean your mind permanently of the Five Precepts.

III. Prakgna is to break the Sansara Cycle & stop suffering. Thinking in deep with a open-mind about what we got known in the 2nd of 4 noble truth. We should remove the cause(s) from our mind it's not a deactivation of Five Precepts. They need to be removed permanently. This step would be completed when practicing with a open-mind. So that's why 2nd step should be done before this.

4. Fouth is to walk the way we understood in 3rd step. (Seela > Samadi > Prakgna) The person who did it is en-lighted and have broken the Sansara Cycle and have realized the truth about world.

disclaimer: for information purposes.
please correct if i've posted something incorrect.

I like your explanation...
What is the real cause of suffering...
How do we suffer because of that.
​

 

[sri_lion]

You said
"your understanding of the Dhamma makes the difference"
Walk the path seem to mean something beyond understanding.
How to walk the path?






You said
"your understanding of the Dhamma makes the difference"
​

Understanding eight fold path
is not seem to be enough it seems.

I will leave other 6.
Can you explain these two in detail.

7. Samma-Sati - Right Awareness
8. Samma-Samadhi - Right Consciousness
​

Lord Buddha explains this In Magga-vibhanga Sutra

And what, monks, is right mindfulness?

(i) There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.

(ii) He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.

(iii) He remains focused on the mind in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.

(iv) He remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. This, monks, is called right mindfulness.

And what, monks, is right concentration?

(i) There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation.

(ii) With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance.

(iii) With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.'

(iv) With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This, monks, is called right concentration.

 

[AtulaSiriwardane]

Lord Buddha explains this In Magga-vibhanga Sutra

Quote:
And what, monks, is right mindfulness?

(i) There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.

(ii) He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.

(iii) He remains focused on the mind in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.

(iv) He remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. This, monks, is called right mindfulness.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn45/sn45.008.than.html

Do you think understanding this make us in samma sati?



​